Talk:Spice and Wolf

Horo's name comes from the Japanese(Ainu) word for "Wolf".

It added. (60.39.40.104 (talk) 09:23, 19 November 2008 (UTC))

This has been discussed above, and as it stands that's only one possible interpretation of Holo's name, and seeing as there is nothing to back this up, I removed it.--十八 10:39, 19 November 2008 (UTC)]

Katakana (ホロ) is an origin, and English is a derivation. The spelling is valueless in the novel on a Japanese version that is the original. (60.39.40.104 (talk) 11:55, 19 November 2008 (UTC)).

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say, but even if there is an Ainu word for wolf that resembles her name (and no one has provided a source for this) it does not mean the author knew about it - even if it seems obvious. But Wikipedia policy demands sourcing for something like this. By this point the author has given a ton of interviews; I've read several, and never seen him discuss the origins of the character's name. If at any point he does do so, we could source such statements to that, or to similar statements made by the anime staff, or in guidebooks. But without such a source, it remains speculation, and cannot be added to Wikipedia. Doceirias (talk) 15:22, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for a kind explanation. (60.39.40.104 (talk) 16:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC))

By the way, you should watch out the three-revert-rule. See 3RR Stevefis (talk) 15:42, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

To note it, it bears it in mind. (60.39.40.104 (talk) 16:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC))

Hamster is Hamu(ハム)(Example ハム太郎 Hamtaro)

Usagi(Rabbit) is Usa(ウサ)

horokeu(Wolf) is horo(ホロ)

Shaman King Character is Horohoro (Horohoro name comes from the Japanese(Ainu) word for "Wolf".)

Please think about things by the common sense of Japan. Please stop erasing a Japanese color from the work of Japan.(60.33.34.34 (talk) 04:00, 21 November 2008 (UTC))

We cannot add it in unless there's a source to substantiate it per WP:NOR. Please stop adding it back in.--十八 04:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I just laughed at "Please stop erasing a Japanese color from the work of Japan". Besides, if you really want to participate in the discussion, please create an account. (Trust me, it doesn't take that much time) Stevefis (talk) 04:40, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Bear in mind to not bite the IP. He/She obviously doesn't have a good handle on English, and is not particularly well-versed in Wiki policies, but we have to remain civil. They can participate in the discussion with or without an account.--十八 04:50, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

If a user wants to participate in a discussion, it is still recommended to create an account. Most of IP users have dynamic IPs, thus making difficult to identify/communicate each other. I'm not really enforcing anyone to create an account, but it never hurts to create one. Stevefis (talk) 06:34, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Stevefis（23:52, 20 November 2008）「Holo spelling is used on official goods products.」

English appeared delaying though it was official. The origin is a katakana（ホロ） not English. The English spelling is valueless in the novel on a Japanese first version that is the original.(60.33.34.34 (talk) 04:46, 21 November 2008 (UTC))

But on this Wikipedia, we have certain guidelines where we use the official English names, and in this case, Holo is an official spelling, though of course if the English-translated light novels use the Horo spelling, we'll use that from then on.--十八 04:50, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

If holo is official, holo will only have to be used. However, it is a name from which ホロ of the katakana was given to her first.(60.33.34.34 (talk) 05:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC))

If this is the answer you want. I copied and pasted my text from above. "Here are the links: 1st, 2nd."Stevefis (talk) 06:36, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

The meaning is not understood. Does ホロ resist the origin katakana? The name of English is a derivation though said many times. Even if the name of English will be recorded in the novel on a Japanese version in the future, it is a derivation added after it is not included in the origin. 220.96.1.193 (talk) 16:15, 21 November 2008 (UTC))

Are you the same person from the above? It really makes difficult for me to keep track of posts here. Anyway, just because クロエ is used in Japanese media does not mean her name is Kuroe. Her name is still pronounced Kuroe by Japanese people, but its English name is still written as Chloe. The same logic goes for Holo, where ホロ is used in Japanese media and her name is still pronounced Horo, but the official assumes her name will be written in English 'Holo' in the middle-age European setting. Stevefis (talk) 19:07, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Telling such a talk would have only me. If it is a same person if IP is examined, it is likely to understand easily. Please distinguish the origin from the official. English appeared after ホロ of katakana.

User:Stevefis "This user can speak senior Japanese. "

Please read the first novel on Japan issued in 2006. ホロ of the name of English is valueless.(220.96.1.193 (talk) 21:00, 21 November 2008 (UTC))

Most people use dynamic IP, which makes one person to have multiple IP even in short period of time, thus making difficult to track which person is which. Anyway, your argument still sounds very unclear to me. Spice and Wolf is told in a setting where people use alphabets to write their languages and names. Although people are speaking Japanese in the Japanese version of novel and uses Katakana names (for obvious reason, as it is written by Japanese author and the novel is sold in Japan), the characters obviously have alphabetical names. As shown in evidences above, the official Japanese goods and websites have been using the alphabetical name of 'Holo' to describe the main character and that is going to be the word that we assume people in the story will be using. The fiction is set in European middle-age time and I don't think people in the fiction would be actually speaking Japanese or writing their names in Kanakana according to the story.Stevefis (talk) 21:28, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Because IP changes without permission, it doesn't know well.

The oiran word is used. It is the world made so that the Japanese may become familiar with the Japanese. Please look at the novel on a Japanese version if you understand Japanese.

(220.96.1.193 (talk) 21:57, 21 November 2008 (UTC))

I've read the novels in Japanese, and I really can't see any basis for arguments that these novels are teaching Japanese history and culture. They are interesting theories, but again, without a source, they are not useful on Wikipedia. Doceirias (talk) 01:39, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Is the one that you saw a pirate edition that erases the oiran word? Oiran word is a culture of unusual in modern days Japan. Because it is Japanese author's work, the culture of Japan is used.

「おいらん言葉に苦戦（It fights hard against the oiran word. ）」 http://mainichi.jp/enta/mantan/archive/news/2007/12/26/20071226mog00m200042000c.html

Spice and Wolf is the world of the fantasy including the culture of Japan. When translated into foreign countries, it is likely to be changed. However, because it is the one that exists in an original Japanese version, it is not possible to disregard it.

(220.96.1.193 (talk) 05:14, 22 November 2008 (UTC)).

Great source! The article original did mention that she used oiran language, and I'm not sure when that fact got removed, but with that source there is no reason not to add it back. But nothing in that article suggests anything about the reasons for her speaking that way, or anything to support your larger theory. Doceirias (talk) 17:47, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it was still in there, and my skimming just failed.

What are large ethics?The remark might become exaggerated because it does the machine translation. I wanted to say only that the culture of Japan would be used by the author.(60.40.9.198 (talk) 02:05, 23 November 2008 (UTC))

In Trigun, Nicholas D. Wolfwood speaks Kansai-ben in the Japanese version. However, Trigun is set in a Western-style English-speaking world, where there is not a single aspect of Kansai-culture in the story. (The only Japanese aspect you can find there is a single Samurai character.) The director of Trigun stated that Wolfwood is supposed to have a distinctive accent in his English, and using Kansai-ben was one way of expressing it in Japanese version. I think there is a similar case with here, as Spice and Wolf is set in a European-style setting where people use alphabets to write. Stevefis (talk) 18:53, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

The original writer used a oiran word that was peculiar to Japanese and peculiar. It remains for a fact. Let's the world of the fantasy it, and enjoy not becoming a too obstinate idea. The origin of "Spice and Wolf" is a Japanese version that uses the oiran word no matter how it struggles.(60.40.9.198 (talk) 02:05, 23 November 2008 (UTC))

I believe I agree with everything you've said here. I'm just not sure how you think the article should be changed because of it - bearing in mind the other relevant guidelines here. Doceirias (talk) 03:59, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

First off, her name may or may not mean any thing. Some times you mistranslate words/names and some times they do have many meanings. Second, her name is both holo and horo. Third... can i just say how much I love this anime??? Nope, because words can't describe it... AnimeWoolf (talk) 15:03, 19 July 2011 (UTC)AnimeWoolf

Character Name Changes

I have changed the names of the characters according to the official US Spice and Wolf website (http://www.kadokawapicturesusa.com/2008/04/spice_wolf.php) The changes I made were Craft -> Kraft, Nora -> Nola. If you would like to object to this change, please read the WP:MOS-AM#Characters first. Thanks! Stevefis (talk) 22:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Lawrence's Profession

This article lists Lawrence as a "peddler", but I'm pretty sure he's a "merchant", so I'll change that. Feel free to debate me on this. HunterXI (talk) 16:56, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

As far as I am aware, "peddler" are people who travel between cities and sell various goods for living, while "merchants" are shopkeepers who run retail business. By the above definition, Lawrence is a peddler.Stevefis (talk) 01:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

This debate is splitting hairs. The definition of Peddler and Merchant are not all that different. Both sell goods they do not produce for a profit. Calling Lawence a traveling merchant would be completely correct.--Wilson (talk) 05:23, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. Oxford defines a peddler as:

a person who goes from place to place selling small goods.

• a person who sells illegal drugs or stolen goods: a drug peddler.

• a person who promotes an idea or view persistently or widely: peddlers of dangerous Utopianism.

I would define Lawrence as none of these things. It is true that by some def'ns of "merchant" the word refers to a shopkeeper, but I refer to this rather general def'n (also given by OED):

(esp. in historical contexts) a person involved in trade or commerce: prosperous merchants and clothiers had established a middle class

That's much closer to what Lawrence is in the Novels/Anime, so I do insist that he be referred to as a "travelling merchant". HunterXI (talk) 03:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I corrected Laurence's profession to "traveling merchant" per the official English distribution website (Funimation) http://funimation.com/SpiceandWolf/ (retrieved July 26, 2009). If you believe that some other profession is correct, please cite to the official source description for comparison purposes. 67.184.178.1 (talk) 18:44, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, it should pointed out that if Lawrence were a peddler, he would not have been a member of his hometown's merchant guild. For historical reference please see Guild and more importantly http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/richardson.guilds (cited in the Guild article). Quoting from the latter source:

"Merchant guilds enforced contracts among members and between members and outsiders. Guilds policed members’ behavior because medieval commerce operated according to the community responsibility system. If a merchant from a particular town failed to fulfill his part of a bargain or pay his debts, all members of his guild could be held liable."

This precise fact is an important plot device used in the story, evidencing that Lawrence is clearly a member of a merchant guild, not a mere peddler. 67.184.178.1 (talk) 22:20, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Lawrence's Name

The official English translation for Lawrence's name is "Lawrence Craft" and not "Craft Lawrence" as show on Yen Press's site [1]. Also, Lawrence is a commonly accepted given name [2], while Craft is not. Craft is however a name that, when used, normally refers to a surname [3]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.75.177.159 (talk) 05:51, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

His name is still originally given as "Craft Lawrence", and why would the author only switch his given and surname? He didn't do it for Nola Arendt, or any of the other characters. Plus, we are talking about a fictional character here, so whether Craft or Lawrence are traditionally a surname and given name respectively doesn't matter since the author had the decision to name him whatever he wanted. Besides, Craft doesn't seem that bad of a given name, and Lawrence is an accepted surname to boot. Yen Press may have switched the order of his name, but that doesn't change the fact the author wanted Lawrence to be his surname, not his given name, as is evidenced by the original name order. Not to mention that Kadokawa USA is naming him Kraft Lawrence with the name order preserved.--十八 06:11, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

We are obligated to go with the official English name once the publishers settle on one, but until the book is actually published, and while there seems to be some disagreement on what his name will be, we don't need to hastily change anything. The person making the website may well be misinformed. Doceirias (talk) 17:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Reviews

• CBR: manga vol. 1
• ANN: manga vol. 1 Novel vol. 2 manga #3 novel #3
• CBB: manga #3 manga #2

--KrebMarkt 16:59, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Spice & Wolf II: BD

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/spice-and-wolf-ii/blu-ray+dvd-complete-collection-limited-edition

Where its first season still had enough odd emotional distance and narrative hiccups to allow one to wave it aside, Spice and Wolf's second season combines a honed narrative sense with a greater focus on Holo and Lawrence's relationship to create a sophisticated cinematic confection the quality of which is quite simply beyond denial. Whatever else you may think about Spice and Wolf, it is too well put-together to be dismissed out of hand.
The blend of coolly restrained romance and intricate mercantile plotting in these two tales is smooth, confident, and accomplished. The romance provides the stakes for the plotting and the plots push the romance forward, stripping away the pair's usual sarcastic banter to reveal the feelings that lie beneath. The first arc does the favor for Lawrence, using his and Holo's first real fight to put the punch in his devious marketplace duel with Amarty, which in turn reveals to both us and Lawrence just how deep his feelings for Holo run. The arc builds its sense of foreboding subtly, from the moment Amarty and Holo meet, proceeds smoothly through Lawrence's investigation of Holo's hometown, flares up when their relationship is scorched, and then maneuvers deftly through the tricky twists and turns of Lawrence's plan for Amarty's ruin before drawing everything cleanly together for a denouement that manages to thrill both intellectually and emotionally. From beginning to end, it's the performance of a series in full control of its storytelling craft.
...As for Holo, we've always known that loneliness and conflict lurked beneath her knowing, flippant exterior, but they've never been so clearly articulated as when Lawrence's deal with Eve forces her to make a decision about their future that neither really wants to make. What we see in those moments is sad and moving and, more than anything, revealing. Holo has always been the center of Spice and Wolf, and appropriately enough, its final arc brings us closer to her (and closer to understanding her) than ever before. And it does it without breaking stride or visibly straining, moving with imperturbable poise through mounting tensions and emotional crises to reach its half-hopeful, half-melancholy resolution without a hair out of place.
...Rather, it's a bonus for the backgrounds. Spice and Wolf relies on backgrounds more than your average anime: for its lonely atmosphere, for its sense of time and place. They can be pretty variable, particularly the interiors and the less important in-town locales, but when the camera draws back for a bird's-eye survey of a smoldering town, or frames Lawrence and Holo's cart against the alpine verdure of a medieval forest, or loses itself in the washed-ink minimalism of a mist-faded vista, you'll want every extra pixel that the Blu-ray has to offer.
Yuuji Yoshino's thoroughly charming folk-music-inspired score, by the way, is a treat from beginning to end.

...There will always be those who don't "get" Spice and Wolf. I never really did. I still don't. Having said that, it may seem weird to recommend it wholeheartedly, but I do. After all, the series has no characters I identify with, no relationships I invested myself in, and nothing that I traditionally enjoy in an anime series, and yet I still relished every minute of it. That's just how well-made it is. I can only imagine what it must be like if you actually get it.

--Gwern (contribs) 15:18 19 September 2011 (GMT)

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