Talk:Sonic 3D Blast

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Minor region dispute[edit]

I'm noticing that an unregistered user insists that the name "Flickies' Island" be used almost exclusively, despite the article title being Sonic 3D Blast. Now, there's a bit of a conundrum here for me: yes, it was developed in Europe, and the name was used in Japan, so I suppose there's that. But then, let's not forget that we're really not supposed to start edit wars over different variants of English or naming as of such, and, well, Sonic Blast was made in Japan, but I don't see it getting named G Sonic.

Personally, I propose using the combined name of the minimized PC version (Sonic 3D Blast: Flickies' Island), so there'd really be no qualm (both subtitles would be used). Thoughts? --Shadow Hog 15:32, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm actually seeing this happen across a lot of other articles. At various times, the UK boxart is the one primarily shown for most pages. It's actually kind of annoying, but tolerable. However, the curious insistance that UK information dominate this article is really very puzzling. As with most Wikipedia articles, I think the information for the American version should primarily dominate; start a seperate article for Flickies Island and make it re-direct here. BlazeHedgehog 21:57, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In particular, Sega Mega Drive/Sega Genesis is under almost constant debate; this seems to be merely spillover. I personally have come to the conclusion that there's no "wrong" title, although I do want to point out most internet-based resources (Mobygames, GameFAQs, GameSpot, etc) almost unanimously use American titles. Nifboy 23:25, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I changed my mind. In this specific instance, the hybrid PC title Sonic 3D Blast: Flickies' Island would be a good region-neutral compromise. Nifboy 23:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I was about to support that title as a neutral compromise, but uhh! So en.WP actually is the usa.WP ... --32X 07:05, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No, that's normal; it happens to every single Sonic article every goddamn week (see also: Eggman vs. Robotnik). Nifboy 15:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Robotnik is the characters name, Eggman is his nickname. TJ Spyke 17:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The recent edit by Nifboy is pretty well, both versions are mentioned on the same level. Now's the best time to do the move. --32X 23:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Moving it to Sonic 3D Blast: Flickies' Island is an incredibly stupid idea, since no one (not even Sega) calls it that. Wouldn't Sonic 3D make more sense, since people tend to call it that anyway? -M. F. Luder 10:51, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Not that it matters anyway, since our good friend 144.138.x.x ignored this discussion entirely and put it back the way they had it. --Shadow Hog 02:33, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

move?[edit]

the problem[edit]

"do NOT keep chaning this without consent. This version reflects the article title."

The good argument. So what about a move to make an end to the edit wars? Here are the options:

  • "Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island" - original (and current) name in Britain, Japan, Italy, Germany, France, Australia and New Zealand
  • "Sonic 3D Blast" - North American name
  • "Sonic 3D Blast: Flickies' Island" - name of the PC port's executable file
  • "Sonic 3D" - maybe (?) the most common name

forgot to sign, it was 32X 20:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC), some IP edits followed. --32X 07:45, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

your thoughts[edit]

  • ...
  • why can't we just have it redirect to one main article? But, what it should be called? Well, I think Sonic 3D Blast: Flickies Island is good. It takes all the names together, and makes it good. Well, thats what I think.
  • The article should be at Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island - As per what was agreed at the mega drive article this takes priority as both the most common name (Europe, Australasia, Asia) and the original name (Japan).

If certain Yankee nationalists are more vocal here though then why not just Sonic 3D? A lot of articles about such issues don't mention subtitles. --Josquius 18:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Except "Blast" wasn't just another subtitle; it was part of the game's main title, whereas "Flickies' Island" was the subtitle. I don't think it should be just "Sonic 3D", that's just awfully short and not really descriptive. I think Sonic 3D Blast: Flickies' Island is much better since (1) that's the full title used for the PC version, and (2) if you were to put Flickies' Island on a North American Genesis or Blast on a European Mega Drive, the title screen would change to reflect the region's name, meaning that BOTH Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island and Sonic 3D Blast are the original titles, as no one title came later since the game's ROM is always exactly the same, though I'm unsure if that's the case with the Saturn version. (And by the way, Japan =/= Original in this case...) 208.101.130.232 12:51, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which version was released first?[edit]

Sources such as GameFAQs insist that the Mega Drive version came out first, but in Sonic Jam's history, it lists all the versions coming out on the same month, with the exception of the European Mega Drive version, which it says was released later. It also lists the Saturn version first, but not the actual day.

"was originally released in Europe for the Sega Mega Drive in November 1996 and released in North America later that month, under the new name 'Sonic 3D Blast'."
I assume / hope this information from the article is true. --32X 14:16, 24 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sonic 3D Beta[edit]

Shouldent be noted here that the Sonic 3D Beta was found?

Such notes about video game betas are often a bit unscientific because in most of the time someone already knew about the beta so the term "was found" isn't the best choice at all. --32X 11:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cheat[edit]

Why was this removed?

"A cheat can be activated for this game when hitting the back of the Genisis console while the game is at its start menu. If you hit the console with the proper force, it will lead you to a menu, from which you can choose, and play, in any and all of the stages found in game."

I know it may sound like a joke, but oddly enough that is indeed a real cheat. I know because I've accidentally dropped the game before, turned it back on to see if it still worked, and was able to access such a menu. As for being in trivia, where else would it go? I feel it's worth pointing out atleast.

BARACUDA is a cheat but what you noted isn't more than a strange circumstance. I have several consoles from several loctations, among of them is a Mega Drive II which immediately stops running when it was slightly hit. At that machine a too short controller cable can quit any gaming session. --32X 11:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I may be a little late, but I want to confirm (from personal experience) that hitting softly the cartidge on the back DOES bring up a menu that allows level selection and (after that) allows the player to skip the current level by hitting A B and C (at least on the European Mega Drive version). Of course it's not a cheat (since there's no possible practical way that this glitch was intended), but I really think it's worth a mention. --TEO64X 13:43, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Main series[edit]

Why this game isn't in the main series chart? it was the SEGA answer to Super Mario 64--189.129.91.139 17:07, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't call that an answer to Super Mario 64. The only things they have in common is both games were released in 1996 and have a 3D-ish perspective. Nothing more. Sonic 3D was developed by a 3rd party for Sega's "old" system while Super Mario 64 was developed by Nintendo as the launch title for their new system. --32X 20:57, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think is should be in the main series, along with Knuckles' Chaotix. Believe it or not, it actually does have a place in the mainstream series, however small it may be. 208.101.130.232 12:38, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Although I'm not sure it is important enough to be considered main series, I definatly believe it is an important part of the storyline. It fits in perfectly just before Sonic Adventure in the storyline. In Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic is said to be on a vacation. In Sonic Adventure, Sonic is implied to be just coming home from a vacation. 66.65.240.77 (talk) 20:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with main series[edit]

I think that it should be in the main series because it is a action adventure and not handheldSonicrules2 13:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)Sonicrules2[reply]

Article title[edit]

Neither of the above naming discussions resulted in a concensus on the name of the article, they just petered out. So let's get it sorted. Personally I think Flickies' Island has the strongest claim due to being the original and most widespread (EUR, JAP, AUS) name, BUT I am in favour of a neutral title. So there's "Sonic 3D Blast: Flickies' Island" which is a bit unwieldy, or "Sonic 3D". Since most people refer to the game as "Sonic 3D" anyway, I propose a move to that. All in favour/against? Miremare 21:55, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, moving then. Miremare 06:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Sonic3D.jpg[edit]

Image:Sonic3D.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Saturn screenshot?[edit]

As this game was for the saturn as well as the MegaDrive/Genesis, would it help it provide a screenshot of the Saturn version of the game as well as one for MegaDrive/Genesis, for comparison? (I would myself, but I don't have a Saturn emulator) ~~Neo 2.3 Hylan 10:19, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Miremare 15:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"PAL version"[edit]

The release date section says "PAL September 30, 1997 (PC)". Is it really accurate to state that a computer release is a PAL version? No one uses PAL televisions for playing computer games. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.247.11.156 (talk) 21:44, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gallery[edit]

I do not believe the gallery in this article qualifies as fair use. File:Sonic 3d mega drive diamond dust zone.jpg seems reasonable as an informative screenshot on the isometric viewpoint and graphics, but the FURs of the rest of them seem cut-and-pasted and not valid. Any thoughts? Tezero (talk) 00:57, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with that. I think only such image should stay in the article.Tintor2 (talk) 15:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Reviews to enter later[edit]

For fixing up the Reception section later on... Sergecross73 msg me 18:41, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Opinion regarding the article title[edit]

It seems nobody has managed to come to a firm conclusion regarding which title this article should be given, so I'd like to throw in a suggestion. From my understanding, decorum dictates that either the game's most popular name, or its name in the region it was first released in, is used as the article title. Since it was released in November '96 in two different regions, let's go with the most popular title. A quick look at the redirects suggests considerably more articles on Wikipedia link to Sonic 3D Blast than any other of the game's names. So, in my opinion, this would be the best choice, if for nothing but convenience. Cipher (Talk) 22:14, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, personally. In addition to what you said, I feel the name Sonic 3D can be confusing in retrospect, as one would think it features polygonal 3D graphics, like featured in systems like the N64, or stereoscopic 3D, like the 3DS, when in reality it is neither... Sergecross73 msg me 22:47, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So changing the article name now would be pointless even though the releases have been updated? Magicperson6969 (talk) 07:17, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that date is unsourced, so I wouldn't make changes based on that... (Update: An IP has removed that date altogether, and sourced the NA one as the earliest.) Sergecross73 msg me 12:19, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (snow close) ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 16:18, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sonic 3D Blast → Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island – Good Lord, this is out of control. Every single reason for Sonic 3D Blast on this page is invalid. We don't use G Sonic because we're supposed to use the names given to releases of the games in English-speaking territories. Some kind of inbetween name or even "Sonic 3D" is wrong, because what's the use in what is essentially a nickname for an article title? Why should I believe the unreliable IGN on this release date when not even GameFAQs uses it and when Sega Retro (a group that actually bothers to look this stuff up) has totally different dates and an actual date for Europe? When was this game actually released, and how do you know? Why do you stop at month, but not day, considering the previous? How could you even argue the nonsense about "confusion over what 3D means" with a reasonable mind, especially by ignoring the far more obvious problem of confusion with Sonic Blast? How could you dare argue that we should "keep" the article at Sonic 3D Blast simply because most of Wikipedia uses that name in links (and why does that mean anything)? Just... how do you people come to these nonsensical conclusions? Here are the actual facts on the case: the name of the game is "Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island". "Sonic 3D Blast" is an alternate name used for release in North America. Whether it has any relation to Sonic Blast is unknown, but they were both released in the same month (rare footage of "same month" actually mattering). There is absolutely no reason we should be using a name that is being argued for with specious and misleading nonsense (and there is absolutely no reason for anyone to assume good faith for such people). Despatche (talk) 18:36, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose I don't see any indication that the current title isn't the common name for the game. Hot Stop talk-contribs 19:32, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We can't exactly go with COMMONNAME here. Unless someone can find better dates, "Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island" was the first name of the game in an English speaking territory, which is a principle that tends to override COMMONNAME in most cases I've seen. Never mind that COMMONNAME itself is flawed because of how nonsensical the concept of "anyone can make up names" is in the first place. Despatche (talk) 20:11, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Now you're making shit up. Hot Stop talk-contribs 20:16, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What are you talking about? That's been in place for ages, and I've been chewed out about it multiple times. I'm pretty sure it's part of some guideline, even. Despatche (talk) 20:27, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - None of that rant above seems to address naming conventions of Wikipedia. Sergecross73 msg me 19:34, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No shit it doesn't, you are completely and utterly obsessed with doing me in. I mean it's not even a rant, what the fuck? No, THIS is a rant: YOU NEED TO FUCKING READ IT ALREADY, BECAUSE IT COVERS FAR MORE THAN YOU EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE NAMING CONVENTIONS. I am so SICK of having to do this SAME little dance with Sergecross73 and friends, time and time again. Despatche (talk) 20:11, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So, your response above just admitted you're not even attempting to formulate your suggestions to abide by policy, so I don't see any further need to argue; there's no way you're going to convince anyone if you openly admit to things like that. Sergecross73 msg me 20:16, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What are you even talking about? Where are you getting this from? When have I said or implied anything of the sort, and why do you keep refusing to actually read what I say? I haven't "openly admited" to anything except my anger at how malicious you are. Despatche (talk) 20:27, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Me: This move request doesn't follow Wikipedia naming conventions. You:"No shit it doesn't" - Am I misreading this? It's directly above us. Wikipedia naming conventions = policy/guidelines. Sergecross73 msg me 20:30, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: "Sonic 3D Blast" has over 400k Google results, while "Sonic 3D Flickies Island" has under 40k, which shows common usage in English sources despite what the title may have been in other markets first.—Ryulong (琉竜) 20:53, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Per WP:COMMONNAME. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 21:24, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - WP:COMMONNAME is policy. Also request close per WP:SNOW. This is just the most recent incarnation of the nom's ongoing crusade to replace WP:COMMONNAME with WP:OFFICIALNAME. I think the game has gone on long enough. -Thibbs (talk) 13:47, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

European/UK release date[edit]

I just added a citation from Computer and Video Games magazine for the European release date as requested above, which will hopefully solve the mystery of where S3D was released first. Note that I don't know whether this date refers to all of Europe or just the UK (where S3D was developed so I guess it could make sense). 2A02:C7D:5D29:1600:25E4:6076:FAB1:33E9 (talk) 13:10, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

English variety[edit]

I notice the article is mixed; the Reception section uses American English, whereas the Gameplay section uses British English. A look through the article's history reveals that American English came first. However, this is a British game developed in the UK by a British company, and therefore has ties to the UK, and none to the USA as far as I can tell. There is even a link to the United Kingdom portal in the article. I therefore propose a change to British English, as I see no reason to use American. Adam9007 (talk) 02:42, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it should be consistent, but I dont really think it matters which. The game was co-developed by a British company, but it really is a globally published game of a globally published series from a global publisher (Sega). It's not especially tied to the UK otherwise (it contains no particular elements of their culture or game design in the game for example) and I'm pretty sure the article currently uses the North American name because it's the WP:COMMONNAME, which would then be an argument in favor of the idea that the NA version of the game is more prominent... Sergecross73 msg me 02:54, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not talking about the title, I'm talking about WP:ENGVAR. The reception section uses American English, and the Gameplay uses British. I think it should be British English due to its ties to the UK. Adam9007 (talk) 03:00, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
But the article is named using the American version, so I think we should be consistent with that instead. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 03:19, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'd argue that that and the cover art used should have no influence over the article's text; Ridge Racer (video game) (a GA), uses British English, but the cover art is American. It also uses the American name for one of its re-releases. Besides, the game itself is exactly the same; it's only the title that's different. Adam9007 (talk) 03:26, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but then you'd have the article written in BE, but the game's name as the NA version, which doesn't make any more sense than it currently does. The entire article needs to be written in one single style/region, shouldn't it?
Outside of the fact that the game content itself has no real ties to the UK (unlike something like Top Gear (2002 TV series), for example) there's also the problem that BE is unlikely to stick long-term, if for no other reason than I've been the main writer/maintainer for the last like 5 years, and I don't know/write in BE. Between that, the NA box art and name being used, and it's unlikely for the consistency to stick. Sergecross73 msg me 03:58, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Dissident93: Probably. I was just thinking about Ridge Racer and its consistency, but it occurred to me there's nothing wrong with the title there; either/both the English or the section headings and cover art can easily be changed if need be. But here, there's practically no chance of having the title changed, mainly because America happens to be a lot bigger than the UK! Adam9007 (talk) 04:27, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Sergecross73: I always use British English, unless I have a reason to use some other variety of English, like I did at Operation: Inner Space. I used Canadian English because it's a Canadian game made by a Canadian company. Are you saying I could have used British English there if I'd wanted to, like I did at Puzzle & Action: Tant-R? That game has no ties whatsoever to any English-speaking nation, and I still believe that this game (Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island/Sonic 3D Blast) has far stronger ties to the UK than to the USA. Adam9007 (talk) 04:27, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the time, it's a pretty uncontroversial thing - just stick with whatever the article was started with, unless the subject has particularly strong ties to a region. Considering this game was co-developed alongside Japanese developers, in efforts to largely emulate Japanese game design, and published by a global company, I'd say, no, there really aren't that strong of ties to the UK for this game. Sergecross73 msg me 04:34, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
But there are some? And no ties to any other English-speaking nation? Adam9007 (talk) 04:39, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you were creating the article from scratch and decided to use BE for this very reason, I don't think anybody would be against it, but since the article has been written in AE for so long, I don't think it should apply anymore. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 04:52, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, look at it this way. Conceptually: There's nothing keeping you from changing it to BE. What I'm saying in, in practical application, if you took your time to change it to BE, I feel that the odds of you checking back here, let's say, in 6 months, and seeing that all your work being undone, would be far greater, than if it was changed to American English, due to all the reasons I mentioned above - weak ties, series/game/character not usually attributed to UK, etc. (For the record, I'm not saying I'd go out and undo all your work, I just mean that, if I were to add a new subsection in 4 months, I'll have probably forgotten about this conversation, and out of habit, would likely write "color" instead of "colour". Then we'd be back at "inconsistent" again. Stuff like that.) Sergecross73 msg me 05:00, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think I'm to blame here. Me and Tezero sought out to bring this to GA a year ago, but we never got around to it. All of the different variations were from us, as we both write differently. I don't mind which variation is used, just as so long it's consistent, although I don't think this will be nominated any time soon. I think this might have stronger ties for BrEng use as it was developed by Traveller's Tales, although the name of the article isn't Flickies' Island, but that can be a different discussion in itself. JAGUAR  12:14, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I know years prior to you two, I had done some restructure/rewrites myself, and I honestly don't remember which variant it used back then. I don't usually give it much thought, especially on Sonic articles. The article was in rough shape, so I just started cleaning it up some... Sergecross73 msg me 13:51, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Sergecross73: To avoid inconsistencies, a notice should be placed (especially on top of the edit page, as there's no guarantee one will check the talk page before editing. Ridge Racer (video game) has one.), but that can't be done until one has been "chosen" (I can't put one there anyway as I'm not a template editor or admin). I had always thought that article whose subjects have ties to a particular English-speaking nation (in this case, the UK) should use the English of that nation. I know the policy says strong ties, but it doesn't clarify how strong such ties must be. I was surprised to see a Use British English template on Thin Lizzy, as I was expecting Irish English. I looked through Sonic R (also developed by Traveller's Tales) and saw -ise spellings and no other indication of a particular English variety, so I believe it to be British English based on that and its ties to the UK, and placed the relevant template and notice on the talk page. Adam9007 (talk) 22:26, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Irish and British English are identical, Wikipedia uses a {{Use Hiberno-English}} template for Irish-related articles, and I'm not sure why. Hiberno-English has identical spelling to BrEng, save for a few vocabulary differences, but that's not relevant to this article. Consistency with spelling isn't that much of a necessity unless you're looking to nominate it to GA or FA, if I'm honest. I should warn you that WP:ENGVAR is single-handedly the most broken and crappiest policy on Wikipedia. I got a community ban last year because of its contradicting guidelines, and to make matters worse, nobody can ever agree on what variation to use. In this case, the Sonic franchise has neither strong ties to the US, Canada, UK etc as it's Japanese. So in terms of neutral articles, the spelling that was originally featured in it should be retained. I believe 3D Blast was originally written in AmEng, but I used BrEng in it last year, so the blame is partially on me. I honestly wouldn't mind what variation is used. You can argue it has slightly stronger ties to use BrEng because of Traveller's Tales, just as all articles in the Grand Theft Auto series use BrEng because Rockstar is British. It's a never ending debate! JAGUAR  00:30, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This article is sort of a special case, since the article uses the North American version of the name. If it is re-written in British English, the article would have to be moved to Flickie's Island too, in my opinion. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:46, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As you can see in the "Requested Move" discussion a few sections above, that was once proposed, and strongly rejected, with the consensus being that Sonic 3D Blast was by far the WP:COMMONNAME. Sergecross73 msg me 04:04, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Which brings me back to my point of the name of the article being a stronger reason for using American English on the article over the British variety, despite the fact it was co-developed by a British studio. Article name should follow WP:ENGVAR, right? We wouldn't have the Sonic Colors article with that name, but refer to it as Sonic Colours in prose. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 04:34, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Using British English doesn't mean we have to refer to the game as Sonic 3D Flickies Island in prose. Adam9007 (talk) 02:43, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's just as inconsistent as using both varieties in prose, in my opinion. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 03:21, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that goes back to my theory, that said inconsistency in name/language will make it unlikely for the BE to stick long-term (conversely, the title can't change to BE due to COMMONNAME, and the redirects present make it so a rename could only be moved by an Admin.) Sergecross73 msg me 04:15, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, I think this article is better off retaining American English. The rename discussion in 2013 resulted in a strong decision to keep 3D Blast as its title, making it hard for BrEng to have any validity. If anybody would want to build this article for GA/FA, then renaming it to Flickies Island and changing the spelling might remain a distant possibility. JAGUAR  23:13, 13 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sonic 3D Blast/Sonic Blast connection[edit]

In reference to this edit, what exactly is the point of contention here? They're both game's published by Sega, in the Sonic series, with a similar naming contention (Blast), and published in the same month and year. Are we just hung up on the word "companion" or something? Because there's clearly some sort of connection worth pointing out here. Pinging Dissident93 and TheJoebro64. Sergecross73 msg me 17:20, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wasn't TheJoebro64 claiming they were companion games? That usually means there is some level of connection between the two (like Sonic 1 GEN and SMS). As far as I know, the only things these games have in common are the name and release month. However, I'm fine with having something that states the games aren't related outside of that. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 05:57, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Despite sharing a similar name and being released during the same month, Sonic Blast on the Game Gear shares no other similarities, including gameplay, plot, and development team. could work. Thoughts? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 17:13, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • @TheJoebro64: So Nintendo Life's review of Sonic Blast says "Not to be confused with Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic Blast only really shares a fondness for rendered sprites with its 16-bit namesake". This just goes with my point of the games having nothing in common outside of the name (and pre-rendered sprites). I still think my proposal above is the best way to handle this. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 23:30, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
        • I support your proposal, though I'd prefer it without the "Despite" part at the beginning. I'd word it more like "A similarly titled game, Sonic Blast, was released in the same month for the Game Gear, though the games had different gameplay, plot, and development team." Sergecross73 msg me 00:26, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
          • I'll use it in both articles, unless something better comes up. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:20, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Directors Cut source[edit]

Action game[edit]

Two sources do not make it a majority opinion. Besides, platform games are a subgenre of action, so I'm not sure why you insist on adding this to Sonic games. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:51, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Especially since a number of sources specifically commented on the lack of action or speed compared to the prior Sonic games at the time... Sergecross73 msg me 01:05, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sega themselves say this is an action game. Adam9007 (talk) 01:08, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
They call every platformer on that list action. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 01:10, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
They also label just about every Virtua Fighter game listed as "action" instead of "fighting", so you can tell this isn't the best source for genre. Not that it matters, on Wikipedia, we don't use first party accounts for subjective claims like genre anyways. Sergecross73 msg me 01:17, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The GamePro review is also calling it action. JOEBRO64 01:23, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This is a bit of a stretch, as it's listed as an action-adventure, which is separate genre. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 01:25, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
EGM also. JOEBRO64 01:26, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Not discrediting these sources, but platform games are simply a subgenre of action, so I think this is all besides the point. It's not like it is being called something else, like an RPG or puzzle game, it's just generically being called an action game. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 01:28, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've just looked at The History Of Sonic The Hedgehog book, and it says Platformer/Adventure (but it's queerly listed under 2D games ). Adam9007 (talk) 01:30, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Technically speaking, it is a 2D game (it's just the graphics—which are pre-rendered—that give it a 3D effect). JOEBRO64 01:52, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Sonic 3D Blast/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: P*h3i (talk · contribs) 23:27, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Required changes[edit]

Infobox[edit]

Location Quote Error Suggestion
Caption parameter North American cover art Lack of information North American Genesis cover art

Lead[edit]

Location Quote Error Suggestion
Para. 1, line 3 making use of some pre-rendered 3D models converted into sprites. Informal language making occasional use of pre-rendered ...
Para. 2, lines 3 & 4 published by Sega in November 1996, and was ported to Microsoft Windows Readability issue ... in November 1996, and the game was ported to ...

Gameplay[edit]

No issues found.

Plot[edit]

No issues found.

Development[edit]

Location Quote Error Suggestion
Para. 2, line 3 used compression and various tricks to make the low-resolution video fit in the 4MB cartridge Not specific enough What specific techniques? Explanation of each.
Para. 2, lines 3 & 4 The game makes use of some pre-rendered 3D models converted into sprites. Informal language The game also makes use of pre-rendered ...
Para. 3, line 4 The Saturn version is compatible with the Analog Control Pad. Readability issue Also, the Saturn version ...

Music[edit]

Location Quote Error Suggestion
Line 2 Okamoto composing the final boss and staff roll themes respectively. Grammatical error ... and staff roll themes, respectively.

Release[edit]

No issues found.

Reception[edit]

Location Quote Error Suggestion
Para. 1, line 6 here, replaced by, essentially, a looping, lazy fetchquest". Missing link ... lazy fetchquest.

Legacy[edit]

Location Quote Error Suggestion
n/a n/a Missing information Include information that part of the tune from the Genesis version of the credits roll theme of Sonic 3D Blast was later remixed into the song used in the announcement trailer for Sonic Mania.

Notes[edit]

No issues found.

References[edit]

Location Quote Error Suggestion
multiple n/a Missing formatting Some refs do not have italics for magazines.
Reference #9 n/a Non-reliable reference vgmuseum.com is not listed as reliable, nor is it deemable as reliable (it is a fan network); as this is an indisputable part of the game, a ref is not technically necessary
Reference #13 n/a Typo "venturebeat.com" should be listed as VentureBeat.
References #15 & #16 n/a Non-reliable reference GameHut is not listed as reliable, nor is it deemable as reliable (it is an unsourced, independent YouTube channel); proper secondary source would be preferable
References #20, #22 & #24 n/a Goes through unreliable third party link, incorrect formatting Correct the formatting, link directly to image rather than through a third-party
Reference #28 n/a Unapplicable reference Replace with reference that has content

Final opinion[edit]

First revision[edit]

  • 1.1: Complies mostly; has a few easily fixable or non-important exceptions.
  • 1.2: Complies fully.
  • 2.1: Complies fully.
  • 2.2: Complies partially; majority complies but still needs fixing.
  • 2.3: Complies fully.
  • 2.4: Complies fully.
  • 3.1: Complies fully.
  • 3.2: Complies fully.
  • 4: Complies fully.
  • 5: Complies mostly; instances of vandalism are few and far between.
  • 6.1: Complies fully; both images used (Sonic3D.jpg & Sonic3DBlastScreenshot.JPG) have fair use rationales and comply with Wikipedia guidelines (although Sonic3D.jpg's rationale is poorly made).
  • 6.2: Complies fully.

Thus, I will put the GAN on hold until the minor issues presented are fixed, specifically with references. The hold time is specifically 7 days. If all issues are fixed within seven days, then Sonic 3D Blast will become a good article . If not, then the article will fail the GAN and will be able to be re-nominated at a later date. If there are any disputes with suggested changes, please write them in the Post-review comments section and we can discuss them and possibly make the GAN open to required second opinion . This 7-day period also acts as a period of time for anyone unbiased to add their own review in the comments.

Thank you. ~ P*h3i (talk to me) 09:11, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Second revision[edit]

  • 1.1: Complies fully.
  • 1.2: Complies fully.
  • 2.1: Complies fully.
  • 2.2: Complies fully.
  • 2.3: Complies fully.
  • 2.4: Complies fully.
  • 3.1: Complies fully.
  • 3.2: Complies fully.
  • 4: Complies fully.
  • 5: Complies mostly; instances of vandalism are few and far between.
  • 6.1: Complies fully; both images used (Sonic3D.jpg & Sonic3DBlastScreenshot.JPG) have fair use rationales and comply with Wikipedia guidelines (although Sonic3D.jpg's rationale is poorly made).
  • 6.2: Complies fully.

Thus, as there are no remaining objections, I will grant Sonic 3D Blast a GA status. ~ P*h3i (talk to me) 12:34, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-review comments[edit]

Writing up now. ~ P*h3i (talk to me) 23:27, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No offense, but are you sure you're ready to be a GA reviewer? I feel like just last week we were explaining some of the basics of notability and source reliability to you... Sergecross73 msg me 02:26, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Sergecross73: Thanks mate. I've done GA reviews before and I was making errors before because I have little experience with AfDs and I was a little irrational because I worked hard on the article (I was scrambling to keep it alive using terrible references I would never use in other articles, despite its fate being sealed; my other edits show I always use WP:VG/RS for citations). You're entirely welcome to submit a second review on the page as is everyone. I appreciate your concern. ~ P*h3i (talk to me) 03:01, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I can't really do a review myself, I'm pretty involved in the article, being the page's biggest contributor when it comes to number of edits. But that's fine, I was just making sure you knew what you were getting into. Didn't recall interacting with you outside of the recent explanations on notability and sourcing. Sergecross73 msg me 04:25, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Post-review comments[edit]

Result is put on hold. ~ P*h3i (talk to me)

@P*h3i: Thanks for the review. I'm currently addressing your comments. However, GameHut is reliable as a primary source (it's run by Jon Burton and there was recently a WT:VG/S discussion about it). With the magazine scans, those are actually the only things that Sonic Retro is considered reliable for, so re-directing to the full magazine scan isn't necessary. As for reference #28, it's the game's page from GameSpot, a reliable source. I can't find a source for the Sonic Mania trailer theme either, so it'd be WP:OR to include it. JOEBRO64 12:03, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you supply the discussion where Jon Burton is deemed reliable? I couldn't find it.
  • Sonic Retro third party redirect is ok.
  • It's not that the GameSpot link is unreliable, it is unapplicable as it has no actual content in it.
  • Lack of Sonic Mania remix is ok.
~ P*h3i (talk to me) 04:17, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@P*h3i: I believe I've resolved all the problems. See above for anything I didn't change. JOEBRO64 14:48, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@P*h3i: Here's the discussion. JOEBRO64 11:39, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@TheJoebro64: Am I missing something or does the discussion not reach an actual conclusion...? Also, thoughts on contentless GameSpot link? ~ P*h3i (talk to me) 11:48, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@P*h3i: The consensus I got from the discussion is that GameHut should just be handled as a primary source since it's run by Burton himself. Furthermore, it's frequently cited in reliable sources. I've removed the Twin Pack entirely, because this was the only other confirmation it exists. JOEBRO64 12:08, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@TheJoebro64: Then, I believe consensus has been reached on all topics. ~ P*h3i (talk to me) 12:34, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Outside North America"[edit]

The lead sentence currently says "Sonic 3D Blast, known outside North America as Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island ..." I thought the game was also called Sonic 3D Blast in Brazil.--Martin IIIa (talk) 19:21, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. I've changed it. JOEBRO64 20:03, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

becoming the second bestselling Saturn game behind Nights into Dreams[edit]

Is this for US? Pretty sure the best selling games on the system are Virtua Fighter 2 and Sega Rally. I have Japanese sales data and there's no way either game is in the top 10. 69.108.65.238 (talk) 23:41, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Wallis (a Sega producer who was heavily involved with the Saturn Sonic games) has said Sonic 3D Blast was the second bestselling Saturn game. JOEBRO64 23:50, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I see, but it seems a bit off.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17294 - Sega Rally 1.2 million worldwide, so Sonic 3D Blast and Nights must have sold over 1.2 million.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/retro-sales-age-thread.981407/page-7#post-182772368 - Japan sales are here, and neither game is in the top 10. Granted the Western world might have been able to tipple the difference, but the majority of Saturn's sales were in Japan.69.108.65.238 (talk) 23:57, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One regions sales figures and one games sales doesn't really do much to disprove this statement straight from Sega staff. Doesn't seem that crazy to think Sonic and Nights were top sellers to begin with, especially with such a limited library on a short-lived console... Sergecross73 msg me 00:16, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think it does considering Saturns sales were mostly in Japan and they didnt even get the game until 1999. But whatever.
Right, I know that, but that doesn't mean that Sonic's 90s popularity in the west wasn't enough to put it on top. Sergecross73 msg me 00:32, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I still have trouble believing that. For example, Virtua Fighter 2 sold 1.7 million in Japan. It was also bundled (alongside Virtua Cop and Daytona USA) for a good chunk of the Saturn's US lifespan - including the infamous 500k December 1996 sales: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Sega+tops+holiday,+yearly+sales+projections%3B+Sega+Saturn+installed...-a019014339 That alone puts Virtua Fighter at 2.2 million. For this to be true, 3D Blast would have had to sell over 2 million (when we know the Mega Drive version only did 700k).
For US, Magic Box has a list of million sellers from 95 to 2007 (covering 3D Blasts entire lifespan) - https://web.archive.org/web/20070421003854/http://www.the-magicbox.com/Chart-USPlatinum.shtml - and Saturn 3D Blast isn't on there. Meaning it sold less than a million in the US. 3D Blast would have had to have sold more than a million in Europe + Other to validate this, but the console itself only sold 1.5 million in Europe + Other. I highly doubt 3D Blast would have sold enough to have a near 1:1 ratio with the system, especially considering it wasn't even exclusive.
Also, regarding that quote, it is possible he is referring to Saturn sales at the time. For example, I could say Spider-Man 2 came out in June 2004 and went on to become the #1 movie in America. Doesn't mean Spider-Man 2 is the highest grossing movie of all time, just that it was #1 back then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.108.65.238 (talk) 05:19, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sega of America's Wallis must have been referring only to U.S. or North American sales, unless he was simply wildly wrong. Every source that I have seen puts Virtua Fighter 2 as the top-selling Saturn game, rather than the more U.S.-centric Nights or Sonic; given that the Saturn sold 5.75 million units in Japan and that (while I don't have the hard figures in front of me) Saturn software enjoyed a very high attach rate in Japan, whereas the Saturn sold only 1.8 million units in the U.S., this is hardly surprising. Furthermore, as 69.108.65.238 demonstrates, it's absolutely impossible to conjure up a plausible scenario in which the Saturn port of 3D Blast could have sold anywhere near Virtua Fighter 2's 1.7 million in Japan + 500,000 bundled in the U.S.—or even anywhere near the Japan figure by itself. By contrast, it's certainly believable on its face that 3D Blast may have been the second most–popular Saturn game in the U.S., after Sonic Team's own Nights.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 09:37, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I'm more convinced by the 2 comments left since the last time I've commented. There must have been some missing context in respect to region or time-frame, it seems. Sergecross73 msg me 13:11, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Source[edit]

New source[edit]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:08, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Sega had discontinued support for the Genesis in 1995"[edit]

Sega had discontinued support for the Genesis in 1995, but produced the game because games typically sell for one to two years after their platforms' discontinuation.

I wanted to discuss this claim in the development section of the article. It's sourced, but due to some of the digging I've done lately in improving the Vectorman games, I've started to wonder about this claim. Figured I'd ask since I know there's plenty of Sega superfans who have dug into this sort of stuff before - ""TheJoebro64, Popcornfud, Red Phoenix, anyone else I'm forgetting too.

Basically, my question is, was the Genesis really discontinued in 1995? It's properly cited according to the source, but it just seems contrary to some other stuff, unless I'm missing something.

  1. Sega Genesis#32-bit era and beyond (a WP:FA) doesn't really say anything to this effect. Quite the contrary, it talks about how much it was still selling in 1995, and only lists it as discontinued in 1997.
  2. The Vectorman 2 article has a sourced statement that "the Genesis was still outselling the Sega Saturn, PlayStation, and Nintendo 64 through the end of 1996. It comes from a hardcopy source I can't check, and I haven't started cleaning up the second game's article yet, so maybe its a dubious claim, but if it was true, that would be exceedingly difficult to achieve if production stopped in 1995...

So anyways, I just wanted to see anyone's input on this. Either this article or the Vectorman 2 article probably needs to be adjusted. Or maybe "discontinued" isn't the best word, and it should be something more like "de-emphasized"? (Kind of more like the situation with the Nintendo 3DS in 2017 and 2018?) Or maybe something I just can't think of on my own yet right now. Anyways, let me know any thoughts you have. Thanks! Sergecross73 msg me 17:23, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All I can say is that the statement comes from the cited interview with Wallis, where he says that Sega had discontinued the Genesis in 1995 but was still making games for it in 1996 because game production does not immediately stop once a company moves onto a new console. I can’t really add anything else other than what Wallis says. JOEBRO64 17:29, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The impression I get is that where this comes from is Nakayama’s announcement in 1995 that Sega would focus solely on the Saturn going forward. We know titles were released into 1995 in part because of development timeframes; Comix Zone and The Ooze are good examples of this. We also know from 32X that there wasn’t clarity at Sega if Saturn would be ready at the end of 1994, which it did end up happening. Whether that’s an “official” discontinuation or not, I couldn’t say, but that clearly didn’t mean remaining games were cancelled. Sega did shift it’s focus away from the Genesis by this point, though, certainly. By the way, I would personally challenge the Vectorman 2 source and ensure it was reviewed; I believe it would make sense for the SNES, but we also have sourced statements from Kalinske that Sega could have sold more Genesis consoles with supply and support at this time because 16-bit was still very successful in North America at this time. Red Phoenix talk 17:46, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would say "shifted focus away from" than discontinued, which implies they had stopped publishing for it too. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 17:55, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I could support this. Red Phoenix talk 17:56, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Same here. To me, changing the wording to something like "shifted focus away from" or "de-emphasized" makes it so technically all accounts are correct. Sergecross73 msg me 18:20, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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