Talk:Slot machine/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Antique slot machine operation

Does anyone know how the old slot machines could generate a random number? If it is not infact a random decision, what is the average number of spins before a full cycle is made? Rather, would the cycle take thousands of spins? millions? -Weylin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.121.48.22 (talk) 11:06, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Answer, please forgive my lack of Wiki syntax knowledge (I know a lot more about old bandits than I do about Wikipedia!): If you're talking about purely mechanical slot machines and one-armed bandits, rather than electromechanical ones that use motors to turn the reels, then there isn't really a mechanism that you can say generates random results. Inside old machines is a device known to the operators as the Clock. It's basically a little gearbox with a spinning wheel mounted on it. The wheel can either be quite heavy, or can have little fins on it so that air resistance makes it hard to get moving. When you pull the handle for the first time, the arms that stop the reels must work against the resistance of this clock mechanism. Naturally, when the wheel is still spinning quite quickly, these arms encounter less resistance, stopping the reels faster. After the reels have stopped moving, the clock will continue to spin for several seconds while the big heavy/finned wheel slows to a halt.

If you were to place the reels at predetermined intervals and pull the handle while the clock is stopped, then you could probably predict where the reels would stop. The randomness is introduced when people play the machine multiple times in a row - IE people pull the handle for another turn while the clock is still spinning. Try it for yourself with an old mechanical machine - on the first pull, the reels will spin longer. If you play again within a few seconds of your first play, the reels will stop much sooner.

You might say that the machine doesn't generate random results, the players do. And you'd be pretty much correct. :)

(there's an image towards the bottom of this page that shows what a typical clock mechanism might look like) http://pennybandit.co.uk/QUESTIONS.html 71.206.232.190 (talk) 00:51, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

History

I expect we might discover that slot machines predate Las Vegas (by a hundred years or so) one day. But, hey!, that might be hoping for a slightly less Americanocentric viewpoint than prevails in these here parts... user:sjc

I'm puzzled as to why the previous author, "sjc", felt compelled to remark about "these parts" being "Americanocentric", without having a source or some other basis on which to claim that slot machines were invented in another country. Sjc, if you have a reference to back up your "expectation" of slot machines being invented in another country, I look forward to reading all about it. Also the article (and numerous other sources) makes no mention of Las Vegas being the origin of slot machines. The article states that San Francisco is where they first became popular. (It's also misleading to speculate about an alternative origin for slot machines other than Las Vegas, when the article states otherwise in the introductory paragraph, and also given that Las Vegas was little more than a water stop in the desert in the late 1800s.)

All of the articles I have read on the history of slot machines state that the first slot machine was indeed called the "Liberty Bell", and later, the "Mills Liberty Bell".

A few moments of googling will yield thousands of online references documenting the Charles Fey/late 1880s/San Francisco origins of slot machines.

The most authoritative and detailed reference concerning the history of slot machines, that I am aware of, is from UNLV (University of Nevada Las Vegas):

http://gaming.unlv.edu/research/subject/slot_history.html

Here are three other references, picked at random from Google - they all agree on the overall history (with various details omitted):

http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blslotmachines.htm

http://www.acbutch.com/ACbutch-art-slot-history.html

https://slotegrator.com/gambling_blog/slot_machine_history.html

There are also books published on this subject, such as:

LEMON, CHERRIES AND BELLFRUITGUM 352 page book, Dick Bueschel, 1995. "A full color history of slot machines from 1885-1995".

SLOT MACHINES: A PICTORIAL HISTORY of the FIRST 100 YEARS, 5th Edition with PRICE GUIDE "This publication by Marshall Fey is one of the best selling books on coin-op machines (over 30,000 copies sold) and is a collectors favorite. National History Award. Covers Slots, and Trade Stimulators from their inception up to todays casino machines, 667 photos, 412 in full color, hb, 256 pg".

Sjc's remarks about an "Americanocentric viewpoint" and some mysterious slot machines "predating Las Vegas by a hundred years or so" are unsubstantiated conjecture and misleading, respectively.

Sjc, if you have some political axe to grind against the historical record of this American invention, please at least find a better example than picking on a Bavarian immigrant who came to America to set up shop and create his inventions. Sources please. I would be eager to read all about it, to help dispel the "Americanocentric" bias you claim lingers "in these here parts".

Thanks. DV 03:56, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Slot clubs

Are slot clubs offered by gaming establishments outside of the United States? I added a subsection to the "United States slot machines" section that describes these clubs, as they are a significant part of gaming in the United States, especially for frequent slot players. DV 05:26, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Follow up on history

This article has now been substantially modified since my original comments were made nearly two years ago. If you look at the article which then existed by going to the history, you will probably immediately discern why I made those comments, and they probably need no more explanation than that. Sjc 09:50, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification Sjc. Your original comment didn't have a timestamp, so I didn't realize how much time had elapsed, nor how different the article was when you made your original comment. I'm sorry that I attributed your comment to the later article.
If you do ever find info about slot machines that predate Las Vegas by a hundred years or so, please let me know, as my wife and I enjoy this subject. Thanks for stopping by. --DV 10:06, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I am not even sure timestamps with the four tildes were available when I wrote it :) Sjc 04:37, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Included some extra information regarding UK Style machines. [kensplace]

Gaming Machines

The official term for these machines in Australia is 'Gaming Machines'. The term 'pokies' or 'poker machines' is pure local slang.

I'm not sure of the position of other countries but a quick google on 'Gaming Machines' will reveal that the term is at least used in Australia, UK and USA.

Never the less, the other names of them should definatly redirect here, which they don't currently. Jedi-Jesus 04:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment

In Nevada, slot machines are also called "gaming machines" - I guess it sounds better than "gambling".

The real reason I'm writing is that when I worked for a casino (mid-1990's), the coin areas of the machine included the coin hopper and the drop box. I wasn't a slot tech, so I'm not sure, but I seem to recall that the hopper (physically located at the top of the machine) is filled up by casino personnel, but never by people who insert coins/tokens. Anything inserted into the machine went into a separate area of the machine (at the bottom) known as the "drop box", yet there's no mention of this in the article. I'm pretty sure it's still true, so it would be cool if someone could check this out. I'll ask one of my friends at the casino when I have a chance.

--ZZYZX 06:49, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Added clarifications as to hopper and drop box.

Not true. coins inserted by the player fill the hopper until it reaches a certain level, until they contact a metal probe, therefore completeing a circuit and actuating a diverter solenoid, sending the coins to the drop instead. This prevents the hopper from overflowing(and shorting out a circuit board or something). The hopper sits in the bottom of the game, under the reel shelf or monitor--Pilotsmoe 05:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Fairplay & Fraud

Added a controversial part to European section about alleged fraud. Only one source, so cleanup, wikify, add counterpoints etc as you see fit. Added for completeness of article. Djbrianuk 23:59, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Myths Debunked

I disagree with this information being presented as fact. One finds books that make these same claims. However, it is fundamentally illogical to have multiple hits on a variety of machines from 7-10 pm, then hit nothing at all by 5 am the next day, after the "multiple hits" money, and then some, is depleted!206.195.19.42 22:58, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

If you have credible sources to support this claim, feel free to add those references to the article. -- Seitz 17:51, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I actually question the "hot and cold machines" assertion as a "myth". As the author asserted, some machines "force" wins to attain a "payout percentage". In Australia at least, regulations require a payout percentage of between 60-90% (depending on region and type of venues), and this figure is audited daily. This payout percentage is not calculated daily, so it may not manifest over several hours, or even days; however it is logically possible that a machine would pay more if it hasn't paid out for a long period of time. It's just that this "long period" could be as long as several days, and few would be sufficiently vigilant to scrutinise such patterns.--Alexio 01:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

It's actually the UK that requires pub and club slots machines to actively seek their configured hold percentages over a certain period, typically 10k spins. Additionally, the pub machines can usually be set to pub or arcade mode. In pub mode, they adhere to their percentage more rigidly, and if forced to pay out less than their percentage through poor play, will start forcing wins in to bump the percentage back up, granting invincible boards, etc. In arcade mode, the percentage is allowed to deviate much more wildly, and will instead keep offering features that can be missed or misplayed for a long time before they start forcing in the wins. If someone in the know sees a machine being played that's offering good features that the current player is missing, they can swoop in and clean up when the current player leaves, stopping when the good features dry up. Additionally, they were often programmed to deliberately go on cold cycles to suck in money, then pay it out in a short period of frequent wins, coming back to the set percentage. Other times, it would simply pay like a lower percentage machine by a few points until it got enough money saved up to give out a streak, and then it would pay out a bunch until it emptied the saved up money. Such antics are rare in other countries, though not impossible.75.144.229.222 (talk) 02:05, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
Slot payout percentages in the payout program are supposed to be calculated over the lifetime of the machine, not within a short time period of a few hours. There will be periods of time where the machine will not pay out, just like there will be periods of time when the machine pays out many times in a short period. Over the life of the machine, however, it will all work out to the preprogrammed payout percentage. SpikeJones 03:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
This is actually a common suggestion heard when working with slot machines here in Australia. It's important to remember that the RTP (Return To Player) percentage is modified by changing reel strips, modifying payouts for symbol combinations, modifying second screen features and changing left-to-right/right-to-left/pay-any rules etc.

Online Slots

Is it worth having a section dedicated to online slots? There's far more variety in online slot games. Paylines alone they range from single paylines up to 20 payline games. Also some of the most popular online slot games have bonus games. Some of these bonus games are luck based, for example wheel of fortune style, but others are skill based. If anything the increase in slots popularity is coming from more people playing online. Any thoughts? Excel32 10:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

If there is anything significantly different in the way that online slots work compared to the way physical slots work, then yes - add a section for online slots that specifically identifies those differences. (ex: online slots have multiple paylines, but so do physical slots -- that fact wouldn't qualify; nor would the existence of skill- or luck-based bonus games, as those also exist in physical slots) If the only difference is that there is "more variety and they are gaining popularity", then there is no need to add a section for online slots. If you do find enough information to add the section and use the phrase "increase in popularity coming from people playing online", then you need to provide references that supports that statement. SpikeJones 11:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, we're missing something here. The article focuses extensively throughout on slot machines taking coins, having hoppers, etc. etc. - basically them being physical machines installed at venues. Online slots are radically different in their presentation: No hopper, no light tower, no coin/note entry, no coin tray - the differences are endless and very obvious. There is no doubt that online slots are a very different beast and they probably even deserver their own article.--203.2.182.254 01:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
See: Online slot games. Accurizer 02:02, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Video poker?

It seems wrong to describe "video poker" as "slot machines". They seem fundamentally different games, in terms of appearance, game play, and strategy. However, I can see the argument being made that these are just variations in the type of slot machine game. I'd like to read what others think. -- Seitz 18:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I think in terms of gameplay and appearance, the two games are very similar indeed, although IMO a good argument could be made that video slots are a fundamentally different game from reel slots, since the mechanism running the actual machine is different. Slot machines and video poker are certainly closely related though. The main difference is the skill element involved, and there are some "video poker" machines and games that run just as randomly as slot machines, and don't have a skill element at all.Rray 03:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
A video poker machine, video slot machine and mechanical reel machine are essentially the exact same thing. They consist of a logical unit that controls the display output and RNG (Random number generator), the display output and the method for accepting and paying currency. In a video poker machine the only difference is the chance to exchange a result (mathematically the same as a "spin") for a different result. IGT video poker or video reel machines for example use the exact same machine cabinet, processor and hardware. The only change is the glass and the software installed. A mechanical reel machine or "stepper" uses the same concept however in stead of displaying the results on a video screen the processor translates the results to a mechanical reel position using optics and a stepping motor. WMS Gaming's CPU-NXT processor may be used universally in a video poker, video reel or stepper reel game as long as the appropriate software is installed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.135.34 (talk) 19:31, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Australian poker machines

I'm proposing the following changes:

  • Boldening the term "gaming machine" and put "poker machine/pokies" in quotation marks - the "official" term (as acknowledged by the author) should be bolded.
  • Gaming machines are not legal "all over the country" - it's still illegal in Western Australia outside of Burswood.
  • Changed references to "clergy" and "charities to the poor" to "religious groups" and "welfare organisations". Charities are only one type of welfare organisations - how about Gamblers Anonymous?
  • "This higher level of complexity has meant that greater revenues can be obtained by operators, but also that the potential for problem gambling to develop is increased." - empirical basis unclear. Left out unless cites are provided.
  • "This greater accessibility is also seen as a potential contributor to problem gambling." - once again, empirical basis is unclear. There are at least 9 dimensions to accessibility according to the Australian Productivity Commission's report in 1999[[1]]. Which (if any) of them pertains to problem gambling is open to research.
  • "In the state of Queensland gaming machines in pubs and clubs must provide a return rate of 60% while machines located in casinos must provide a return rate of 90%." - citation is needed. NSW also has a pay-back quota, although I'm not sure what it is (and don't have the citation).--Alexio 01:18, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


NZ English: pokie machines

Perhaps some reference could be made to the NZ English (and Australian?) term: pokie machine. From the NZ Herald: [2] Charities take stand against pokies funding 1.00pm Friday September 8, 2006 Twenty charities have banded together and refused to accept the takings from pokie machines because they say the impact of gambling undermines their moves to help the needy. Dailyenglish 06:59, 8 September 2006

Yes, "pokie machine" or collectively "the pokies" are both common terms for the poker machine in Australia and New Zealand. Can someone please have this updated in the article (it appears to have been protected)? 122.99.82.107 (talk) 01:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

British English: Slot machines

Both the BBC News (29/01/2007|22:00GMT) and The Guardian [3] refer to these as slot machines, not 'fruit machines'. Fruit machines is an older name which is no longer used officially in the UK. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Civil engineering student (talk • contribs) 22:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

Well, where I come from (Newcastle, North East England) "fruit machines" are strictly gambling machines; the term "slot machines" includes coin-operated arcade games (such as video games) that do not give out prizes. Bear in mind that the BBC and The Guardian are very London-centric media organisations; anything you see here doesn't necessarily apply outside of that rather narrow corner of South East England, so don't take it as representative of the United Kingdom as a whole. AdorableRuffian 00:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

AWP - never heard of it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.217.117.34 (talk) 13:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


23:37, 11 January 2008 (UTC)23:37, 11 January 2008 (UTC)~~== is this linkspam disguised as a reference? ==

Could someone take a look at the two links posted for http://arcadenemy.freewebsitehosting.com and determine if they are spam or not? They are linked as references for slot fraud techniques, but the sites themselves appear to be selling potentially illegal - or not - items. SpikeJones (talk) 17:38, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

No, I wouldn't say so, there are pretty detailed descriptions of tools for fraud yes, but legality is defined I suppose by your local laws and country of residence. There have been repeated attempts in the UK and USA to prevent marketing of them, but I think there is a reluctance on the part of legislators to do so as the industry itself is commonly seen as corrupt too. The descriptions are educational, and you wouldn't be tempted to buy one unless a conman yourself would you?Gamcare1 (talk) 23:37, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

http://arcadenemy.freewebsitehosting.com is a well know scam site. google arcadenemy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.220.103 (talk • contribs) 16:44, 19 January 2009

UK slot machine operation

"These machines also operate in a different fashion to American slot machines; whereas slots are programmed to pay a percentage over the long-run, there is no reason why a jackpot cannot be paid straight after one has already been won - this is because over the long-run the percentage payout will be the same. However, in the UK, a fruit machine takes on an amount above its payout percentage before winning, so if a payout is 95%, a machine will make the player lose £10 before paying out £9.50. As such, it is sensible to watch for people playing these machines but not winning as the likelihood of a win increases. This, however, is called Sharking."

I dont believe this to be true.

UK fruit machines operate in exactly the same way by paying out to a percentage over an indefinite period of time.

A UK machine can pay out over its percentage and will then make up the shortfall later. This can be proven with emulation.

Example

I clear the machines ram (so its payout history is erased)
Set the payout percentage to 80%
Put £2 in
Win £10 with my 5th credit (30p play)
Payout percentage is currently 500% (machine is set to 80%)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.225.211 (talk) 14:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe it is true. Were a machine not to have the ability to pay out two jackpots in a row, it would contravene the Lotteries and Gaming Acts. The average payout must be displayed on the machine, and is set usually by a potentiometer, and I think must lie within 30% and 70% (but that is AVERAGE of course; you could throw in a quid and win 20 quid, which obvciously is 2000%).

Rules for "Games of skill" differ. I remember often playing quiz machines etc where there was a notable bias to a payout depending on how much money had been stuffed in it.

SimonTrew (talk) 23:53, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

OK I think I missed your point (sharking). In making other fixes by refering to the gaming act etc, I or someone else removed this guff. Sorted. SimonTrew (talk) 15:41, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

While deliberate streaking does contravene the gaming regulations, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Machines very often did deliberately have hot and cold cycles. It's just difficult to prove it. Machines are required to eventually seek their percentage over a period of say, 10,000 spins. They do this by dynamically adjusting the odds. In fact, many of the club machines will actually go so far as to deliberately block the jackpot until there's enough money in the machine to pay for it. If the "hoppers full" sensor isn't tripped, the odds of spinning in a jackpot are zero. More examples will make things clear.

Take a typical machine from the not so distant past. Calamari Club. This game is known to have a 40 pound block. This means that when the game hasn't taken enough to afford a jackpot without going over percentage, any attempt to gain more than that amount of money will fail. This means if you are ever offered more than that amount of money by the machine, it is prepared to offer a jackpot, and you should try to go all the way on the turbo gamble ladder. If you fail to go all the way, you will get another chance within a few spins. Clearly you want to be playing it when the jackpot is on, and to not be playing it when it's not. That's sharking. By watching it played, you can get yourself a good idea of when it's likely to be ready to pay out.

The class C machines, despite what the law will tell you, were very often (especially with MayGay) programmed to play under the programmed percentage to save up a large sum of extra money, which is then paid out in a streak once the "rave bank" is full. Anyone who doesn't believe this is welcome to play on a machine that someone else has just got 60 pounds out of and lost 5 afterwards. Marvel at how horrible your luck is.

Now it was also true that many games can be brought well blow their payout percentage due to poor play. Eventually, the game will start being extra generous to catch up. This isn't a deliberately programmed streak, though it may seem like one. Skilled play includes taking good feature when offered the, using the so called cheats to give yourself a winning spin, etc. Generally when the game wants you to win, it will make it difficult to lose, and when it wants you to lose, there's nothing you can do to change it's mind.

Fruit machines are programmed to be profitable regardless of player skill OR luck. It is this fact that allows players to take advantage of streaks. It is NOT a myth, and it can be corroborated with emulation.

74.211.58.183 (talk) 05:40, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

6 reels???

"These machines commonly have 3 or 6 reels"

Since when have our machines commonly had 6 reels? By my experience they normally have 3; I'd normally expect one that doesn't to have 4 rather than 6. -- Smjg (talk) 01:04, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Breaking Up the Article?

The article is already long enough (50 KB). I was thinking it may be a good idea to break it up in chunks. I was thinking on separating the AWP and pachisuro Sections into different articles. Any thoughts? Jmgonzalez (talk) 10:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree the article is long and should be split somehow. I don't know if splitting AWP and pachisuro is the best option; while the sections are somewhat sizable, they lack sourcing which would make those articles tougher to stand alone. How about splitting that whole heading into a Regional variations in slot machines article? Perhaps that would be a more notable article subject (but perhaps not), and at the very least it splits out a larger chunk. Of course it would also need much better sourcing, much like the above suggestion. Other thoughts? -FrankTobia (talk) 14:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
the article really isn't that long. I agree that the 'regional' option, and perhaps the 'terminology', would be the only items worth breaking out separately. That said, I think that the article needs to be reviewed for editing/content changes first -- including sourcing -- before it's split. Perhaps that would be enough to shorten the article to what you believe it needs be shortened to. SpikeJones (talk) 16:41, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

There are some terms concerning slot machines not covered in the terminology section but would be helpful for the article (e.g. Theoretical Hold Worksheet, RFB, Cash box etc). Adding them to the original article will make it even longer. There is a point in creating a separate article dedicated to Slot machine glossary (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_blackjack_terms). Are there any objections or suggestions? Alextlu (talk) 14:32, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Removed claim of $A238billion

Previously, the article read: In New South Wales, gaming machine revenue increased from $A425.2 million in 1978 to $A238 billion in 1998 with a link to http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiry/gambling/finalreport/summary.pdf Productivity Commission, Australia’s Gambling Industries, Final Report, Summary, 26 November 1999

The URL is a dead link, and 238 billion Australian dollars is just about the entire GDP of New South Wales, so clearly the statement is false. Probably a decimal point was omitted, but because the link is dead, I can't collect the correct figure. Perhaps the original contributor or someone else can find where the Commission's paper resides now and get the correct amount, then reinsert the statement.

Ordinary Person (talk) 02:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[http://web.archive.org/web/20000817062747/http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiry/gambling/finalreport/summary.pdf} check page 4 which states: "The Commission estimates that the gambling industries account for about 1½ per cent of Australia’s GDP. Total expenditure (losses) on gambling amounted to over $11 billion in 1997-98, of which $3.5 billion is paid in taxation from a turnover (money staked) of some $95 billion (box 2). Expenditure is more than double what it was a decade ago in real terms — at least for legal gambling — and treble that of 15 years ago (figure 1)." —Preceding unsigned comment added by SlotKing (talk • contribs) 22:57, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Image(04).jpg

Image:Image(04).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Random number generator

I am something of an expert in pseudorandom number generation and I assure you it is not down to poor programming. All generators necessarily will repeat, since there are only so many numbers in the sequenece. Indeed it would be incredibly surprising if every number in the period appeared exactly once (this would, of course, happen with dealing e.g. a shuffled pack of cards). Some sequences can be surprisingly short. This is dealt with extensively in Knuth, Seminumerical Algorithms. (Vol 2. ACP.) I think the reference to the main article is good enough but "poor programming" should be removed-- it is pejorative, or at leat not NPOV.

SimonTrew (talk) 23:58, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

repetition of "slot machine"

It's a bit tiresome to read "slot machine" every time Quite obviously having set out our stall we are talking about slot machines, not rolling machines or washing machines. In most places, unless specifically mentioning the slot or perhaps the money put into it, I think it could be abbreviated just to "machine" (and probably in some places with rewording be eliminated completely). It would also make the article shorter-- not that 50k as such is eccessive, but it would be briefer to read without having lost any meaning.

On the other hand, since "slot machine" is the definition and the subject of the article, I could see perhaps it should stay that way. Any comments? SimonTrew (talk) 15:47, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

UK Re-write

I plan on re-writing the UK section as it constantly confusing the games found in pubs, often know as Fruit Machines, but technically AWPs (Category C games under the 2005 Gambling Act) and those found in casinos in the UK (Category B1). B1 games are almost identical to those found in the US, but with a maximum stake of £2 and a maximum prize of £4,000. AWPs are usually use compensated maths models, so a machine which has not paid out in a while is more likely to pay out, whereas casino slots in the UK are random like their US counterparts and the result of a spin is not affected by the results of any previous spin, i.e. there is just as much chance of winning the £4,000 top prize the spin after winning £4,000 as there was the spin before, or any other spin.

The new section should mention the 1968 games, Section 21, 31 and 16 games but all games in the UK fall under the auspices of the 2005 Gambling act and have categories B1, B2, B3, B4, C and D. Category A is defined, but never used in the UK as their only legal location was to be in the larger "regional" casinos which The Daily Mail and the chattering classes, and subsequently the government decided the UK was not to have. MrMarmite (talk) 19:50, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Go ahead old bean. I'll support you on the rewrite in principle cos I agree I think it is confusing. AWP has been changed many times and that I think has partly been as the law has changed (and of course old machines may not have been updated). I'd suggest you propose a section here on discussion first so we can all tear it to pieces. Best wishes SimonTrew (talk) 21:34, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Lead is too long

I think that some stuff should be taken out of the lead and put into e.g. history section. But I am not confident to do it myself even under WP:BOLD. I think some should be moved but cannot decide which. Good artcle and thanks for everyone who has contributed to it. 15:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Musical sounds

Does anyone know whether slot machines are tuned to a certain musical key? The ambient "drone" in a casino sounds tuned and in my opinion is the same no matter which casino you are in. I suspect there is a key that is preselected by the industry so that machines do not produce a cacophony of noise. -Rolypolyman (talk) 10:58, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Second screen feature

"The first video slot machine to offer a second-screen bonus round was Reel 'Em In developed by WMS Industries Inc. in 1996."

One game called 3 Bags Full is slightly earlier; artwork says (c) 1994 Aristocrat Leisure Industries. When you get the feature, it moves to a screen where you select three 'bags' out of ten for bonus credit prizes. Unfortunately, I can't get any pictures of it since this game was one of hundreds blacklisted in Victoria (Australia) when gaming laws were amended in December 2007; the banning of any machine with an option to accept $100 notes and spin automatically with a button held down.

Anyone with the actual game will also be able to find a date in the Machine Identification screen, although I'm not sure if versions on the Aristocrat MK4 hardware show this information (MK5 and later games do). This date is the combination version (e.g. reel strips) and not necessarily the release date (for example, games may be released on brand new hardware and still have 1999 listed here). 123.243.99.227 (talk) 07:28, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

It needs to be reworded. I queried this claim with a citation needed. Impressively someone (my apologies for being too lazy to look it up) has put one in quickly. However a reading of the link makes it clear that the Reem Em In game was the first in AMERICA to have a second screen bonus. To quote "Reel ‘Em In represented the Americanization of the multiline video slot—the first video slot with multiple paylines and a bonus event that was without an Australian pedigree. It also represented the first game in the multiline genre that would reach Nevada’s casinos."
To me it seems clear that they are acknowledging that some Australian machines already had such a feature. FWIW I do remember the 3 bags full machine and seem to recall it being in NSW clubs in the early-mid 90s. As also noted above the machine has a copyright of 1994 and this link shows the second screen feature. http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=3-bags-full&page=detail&id=5056
Unless there is a counter argument I am rewording. Tigerman2005 (talk) 00:49, 10 November 2010 (UTC)


Too American centric?

To me this article, especially the history section seems too heavily slanted towards machines in the USA. FWIW, my person experience from travelling to Las Vegas a few times is that the machines there appear to be the older Australian machines. Anyway my point is that the size of the Australian (well NSW) market for poker/slot machines and their long history means that they have been at the leading edge of machine development and this could be acknowledged better. I'm going to try and dig up some references. Tigerman2005 (talk) 00:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Fraud

The second paragraph of the "Fraud" section needs some attention. It seems to have been written (in good faith) by someone without a through knowledge of what they are talking about. Eg, an EPROM is an electronic component that STORES data, it has nothing to do with controlling or calculating anything. This is the work of the CPU/MCU and the program stored on disk or ROM. I am not an expert in the field of slot machines, so I do not consider myself knowledgeable enough to make a good impact on this section.

Snakeanbake (talk) 14:26, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

I understand your concern and, from a technical standpoint, you're of course correct. However, the EPROM contains the software that the game runs on and it is not unfair to say that the software determines how the game operates. Though I do take issue with the fact that there are no references to microwaves magically altering the game outcome in the player's favor. This seems like an urban legend to me.AddBlue (talk) 07:32, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
The likelihood that randomly damaging the EPROM so that it would cause a payout is vanishingly small. What DOES concern me is that this article makes no mention of how ridiculously easy it would be for the casino to commit fraud using computerized slots. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.115.31 (talk) 18:49, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

As well this section might briefly address methods of fraud used to cheat mechanical slot machines for the first 70 years of pre-electronic slot machine history. Wilke339 30 Jan 2014. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.211.212.206 (talk) 00:12, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Psychological view

Are there any studies on the psychological aspects of this topic? For example it might relate to wishful thinking --151.75.35.106 (talk) 12:47, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Caille Black Cat 1889

On the German Wikipedia it says the Caille Black Cat 1889 was the first slot machine, invented by the brothers Adolphe and Arthur Caille in 1889. http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Black_Cat_(Spielautomat) 92.104.120.90 (talk) 17:26, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Native American casinos

This section needs changing and sourcing. Its both much simpler and more complicated than currently stated. Native American casinos on a typical reservation (this is really what makes it an 'Native American' casino) are under the direct authority of the federal government and state government has no jurisdiction except that which has been allowed by treaty between the tribe and the federal government. There are no treaties concerning gambling and it is therefore outside the jurisdiction of federal and state governments. This did not stop states from violating treaties and attempting to regulate and ban various types of gambling on tribal land. Even in cases where the gambling in question was actually legal in the state (such as Bingo voluntarily done in compliance with state law in many cases). Also in some cases, many traditional tribal activities were deemed to be gambling (some actually where) and forbidden. As states could financially inhibit casino operations (gaming machines manufactures typically are not based on tribal land, for instance. The majority of customers are subject to state law even when on tribal land, etc...) many chose not to exercise their rights in defiance of states. Some tribes chose to negotiate deals with state governments. These agreements were probably not allowed, as they were not done under the authority of the federal government who has jurisdiction over tribal land. Typically state governments would take a deal negotiated with a one tribe on one reservation and attempt to impose it on all tribes and across all reservations (violating many treaties at once). Many tribes appealed to voters by creating state ballot measures that allowed anything from reasonable state interference to no interference whatsoever. Most of them passed with an overwhelming authority. As the reservations were under federal authority, many state governments reasoned (correctly) they need no follow these laws. The Indian Gaming Regulatory Act theoretically put and end to all these disputes by classifying and minimally regulating gambling activities. Basically is affirms that the Federal government by way of the Secretary of Interior and FBI and not local government and local law are authority on tribal land. While the regulations may required some form of compliance with local state laws, the state's involvement is incidental. It also affirms tribal casinos cannot be taxed in the just as no other business on tribal land can be. IGRA also notably affirms that grants to improve economic conditions for Native Americans can include money for gambling establishments making the unique situation of US tax money being given to for-profit businesses that are tax exempt.

And there is another situation that exists. Some tribal lands are effectively full sovereign nations (though not actually so). To the point that even the FBI cannot set foot on the land without express permission and does not have authority to arrest, detain or stop criminal acts. Anyone living on these lands is effectively subject only to the tribal authorities there. State law, most federal law, and IGRA do not apply. As far as I know, note of these nations is involved in anything but traditional tribal gambling activities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.92.243 (talk) 18:59, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Problem gambling

There´s a relationship between how the slot machine interactuate with humans throughout lights and sounds, changing their humor with "sound and lights rewards", i´ve mention this because of my addition to "See also" of problem gambling, i´ll be happy to comment about it, greetings.--Euroescritor (talk) 16:21, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

It'd be more useful to write about this in one of the two articles - the current problem gambling article only mentions slot machines as part of a hypothetical example, and says nothing about the psychology behind them. I've removed the link, since a reader won't learn much by clicking it, as things stand. --McGeddon (talk) 16:34, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Three classes

The "Three classes" section seems to be about the USA only, as if slot machines didn't even exist anywhere else. The country-specific subsections after it seem like an afterthought, and also the section naming is wrong, as "Three classes" seems like a USA-specific name and not applicable to other countries. Oh, and the USA-specific part needs to differentiate between Indians and Indians. JIP | Talk 12:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Citations for the Wisconsin law allowing bars and taverns to have gaming machines?

As a Wisconsin resident, the law as I was aware of it only allowed gaming machines in Native American casinos and that the machines in bars and taverns had to be "for amusement only". Furthermore, as I am aware of it, paying out an "for amusement only" gaming machine in a bar or tavern is a felony in Wisconsin. I would like to see citations one way or the other to clarify this. Thank you. 66.206.58.173 (talk) 08:33, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

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i guess the problem gambling section needs further expansion

i might be wrong, yet it seems to me:

an article on slot machines can be described as containing:

a, generic definition of the term 'slot machine',

a2, an illustration,

b, technical info (mostly historical since actual technicalities, if i got it correctly, and most importantly the odds of the game as defined by those technical details, are business confidential, not revealed to general public),

b2, local variations in "b," as induced by differences in local legal regulation (eg: by countries/states),

c, role/effect of slot machines/effect on society - eg from mild (and arguably overpriced) amusement to legally approwed way of bringing financial destruction to already disfunctional members/and their families of society,

d, the way "c," is kept going on despite being rather obviously detrimental to both individual gamblers and the wider society on a large scale.

it seems to me that "c," is being touched on slightly in the 'problem gambling' section, while "d," is completely missing. and by "d," i mean not conspiracy theories (though there could be as many of those as the number of businesses involved in making profit by slot machines) but, rather generic psychological traits of players and generic business models that keep legislations from turning against slot machines. 80.99.38.199 (talk) 15:59, 3 November 2017 (UTC).

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Clarification

Hi, I'm trying to improve an article in my Wikiproject and I would appreciate expert clarification on a concept. The article Endorphina contains the sentence: "Endorphina's slot games are available in 5-line, 6-line, 10-line, 25-line and 40-line variations." - can someone explain what this means so I can include wikilinks to the right pages? Thanks. Jdcooper (talk) 13:41, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Rhythm players

John Scarne documents a period during the late 1940s during which it was possible to "rhythm" a slot machine by timing the pulling of the handle exactly so that cherries would always come up on the first and/or second reels and it would eventually be cleared out. It took them a while but the major manufacturers like Mills eventually learned how to randomize the spinning times of the wheels. This should be included under "History". [4] MaxBrowne2 (talk) 00:35, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

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