Talk:Shankill, Dublin

MArch 2006 edits

I've removed one paragraph and one sentence from this article and made some other minor amendments. The paragraph about the notable inhabitants, didn't, in my opinion, establish their notability. The sentence I removed seemed to be inappropriate and possible vandalism. I've added an external link for the local authority and some links to other wikipedia articles which I thought were warranted. I have rewritten some of the text to improve readability and NPOV. Politepunk 12:42, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Rewrite

Hi, I've re-written this page to accurately reflect the history and present state of this village and surrounding townlands. However, I can't re-format all these links to external pages and on-page formatting. I would be grateful if someone skilled in this area could.

All the details I've written here are factual and accurate as far as I am aware. I would appreciate some level of respect for this research, but please add anything you know that is not listed here.

89.100.43.138 23:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Famous Residents

This section looks dodgy. No references or links and I've never heard of some of these 'famous' people and I live near Shankill. Please supply some support or I'll delete this section. (Sarah777 00:45, 2 December 2006 (UTC))

Photo of Station

"The recently refurbished Shankill DART station" !! What did it look like before the refurbishment??? Looks like a guardhouse in a prison perimeter. If someone doesn't put up a better photo I may have to take one myself. Reluctant as I am to go to Shankill. (Sarah777 22:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC))

The Golden Wreath

The Golden Wreath is indeed a Swedish poetry award; but the only reference Google comes up with mentioning 'Ian McMahon' in relation to the award is this article in Wiki!!

Photos of Shankill

I've loads of photos of Shankill, will put up some nice ones of the antiquities, street, etc in the new year.

Photo of the Station

I'm so sorry Billy - but this just HAD to go! I've placed it here so that we can gaze at it from time to time; I've also added it to Shankill railway station - where it fits better.

The recently refurbished Shankill DART station

(Sarah777 20:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC))

Edits

Large housing estates are by their very definition out of character with manorial estates, perhaps you should find out what "point of view" means before editing.

A while back there were edits on this page that changed "flats" to "middle class apartments". That is definitely POV, however I fail to see how your edition adds more insight to the thrust of the sentences, which is to state that the area has undergone a lot of change with regard to the bulk, density and character of the initial developments.

---

Well, thats a point of view. The phrase I removed was "beset on all sides". The article read (to me) as an anti-development tract. Any building is 'out of character' with the ground it stands on by your definition. The Manor houses were out of character with what they replaced. I don't think the use of subjective phrases is very Wiki. The articles for areas from Blackrock down the coast to Greystones were littered with NIMBY-type anti-development stuff. Wiki isn't the place for it; maybe a Residents Association Newsletter?

Georgian-era mansion, beset on all sides by 1960’s housing developments. I changed that to Georgian-era mansion, surrounded by 1960’s housing developments. (Sarah777 12:10, 22 March 2007 (UTC))

The National Inventory of Architectural Heritage, [1] also don't seem too impressed by the current surroundings of Shanganagh House. To quote, in part: Significant Development: Yes. General Comments: Much of the site is covered by residential development. Entrances have changed: Yes. Drive position has changed: Yes. Avenues: No. Woodland Drives or Walks: No. Parkland: Yes. Comments: Small areas remain as greenspaces amongst the housing. Suckindiesel 22:07, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

---

Well, that's a point of view. The word 'beset' has more meanings than the narrow one that you construed it to have, e.g.

To hem in; surround: “the mountains which beset it round”.

You may say that there is a prevalent understanding of the word, but again, that's a point of view.

If you have actually seen Shanganagh Park House, it is indeed hemmed in by houses, which, out of character or not, completely surround it. I cannot understand why people stuff South Dublin wikipedia pages with estate-agent nonsense, but my descriptions are accurate in most cases.

Notable residents

I really don't think this is a case of fascism. "Resident" means someone resident; if they don't live there they are not a resident!! And in relation to people that are not very well known it is important to give some reference least it be suspected that the person is a result of trollery rather than a genuine notable. I'm sure there is a Wiki Policy on "notability" somewhere - there is a policy on EVERYTHING - but in this case I'm just using what passes in my tiny mind for common sense. (Sarah777 23:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC))

Griefer Reverts

Terrible. That is all.

Tense Maintenance

Can't resist the urge to slavishly edit everything to agree with your interpretation of the English language? At least maintain a consistent tense throughout.

lol, pwnage

You have been temporarily blocked from editing Wikipedia as a result of your disruptive edits. You are free to make constructive edits after the block has expired, but please note that vandalism (including page blanking or addition of random text), spam, deliberate misinformation, privacy violations, personal attacks; and repeated, blatant violations of our neutral point of view policy will not be tolerated.

Y'all don't come back with spurious edits using a different IP now!

Same old IP here. You do realise that "council houses", as used by you, is a deliberately derogatory class-ridden term? POV has no place in Wiki articles. (Sarah777 05:50, 31 May 2007 (UTC))

Council Houses

Sigh. Looks like another wrongheaded edit.

please see: http://www.dlrcoco.ie/Meetings/2006/DLEHCCDA/SEPT06.htm

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_house

Quote: "The leak has recently been located on the private service to 73 Rockford Park. This is a Council house and the leak will be repaired by the Housing Department."

You do realise that attaching arbitrary meaning to phrases reveals total ignorance on your part? If it's a good enough term for DLRCC and indeed WP, it will have to be good enough for you. Less of your ill-informed POV edits please, it devalues the WP project and shows you up to be a less than skilled editor.

"council houses", as used by you, is what I said. I have no problem with DLRCC as I'm sure they know that No 73 is a Council house. (Sarah777 21:28, 2 June 2007 (UTC))

Contradictory Edits

"Georgian-era mansion, now completely surrounded by 1960's council housing". How on earth is that POV? It is a statement of fact:

House is Georgian era. (1715-1830) It is built in a mansion style. It is now completely surrounded by houses. These houses were built in the 1960's. These houses were built by DLRCC. DLRCC describes them as "council houses" Wikipedia confirms that the term council house as used above is correct.

Do you suffer from reading comprehension issues? Is there anything else you need a hand with?

Please leave this page alone, I take issue with your plodding, bovine interventions which add nothing to the value of the article. I shall make a complaint if this continues further. I'm sure you don't want any more against your name, given your application to become a Wikipedia gruppenfuhrer.

Dear anonymous, please feel free to complain. I must warn you that another revert before 22:00 3 June and you will have breached 3RR and will be blocked for edit warring. I guess your contributions could be considered "abusive" as well - but then I'm not as sensitive as some around here and that doesn't bother me. Regards (Sarah777 13:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC))

Dear Sarah777

It clearly does bother you. I see you can't address the points above, so you just stick at changing it to Dublin Corporation. These houses are council houses. These reverts do seem to point to some kind of mental deficiency on your part.

It's not derogatory or POV to call them council houses, that distinction only exists in your mind. Oh noes with the 3RR! Time to get another IP lease, there's 4x10^9 of them so we'll be OK. This IP address may only be concerned with this sentence and you, but I personally do contribute to wikipedia, it's a shame pedants like you hang around, as it devalues everyone's contributions/

That many? (Sarah777 22:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC))

Yes, That Many

Not long now till you can rule the Wikipedia Waves. Your dislike of POV jars with your relentless application of your own POV. I see you still cannot work up the intellectual capacity to address my statement above, just goes to prove it I suppose. Night night.

Well, I either have or haven't got the intellectual capacity; I can't 'work it up' surely? Anyway, are you sure they were built by Dublin Corporation? It's certainly possible (eg Tallaght) but Shankill is a long way from the former Dublin Corporation area and was part of Dublin County Council in the 1960s. Also as Gold points out, "Local Authority housing" is the more common Irish term for state-built housing. If they were built by a Corporation rather then a Council they'd be Corporation houses. Once upon a time. (Sarah777 01:06, 5 June 2007 (UTC))

Allow me to retort

Right so, what would you be happy with? Do you permit any edits in WP that don't conform with your POV? I'm fairly certain whether you can "work it up" or not, it wouldn't make a difference as you seem incapable of reason. The word pedantry doesn't cut it for your edits really.

I'm going to change the sentence to Local Authority Housing, clunky as it is: "I was born in January 1962. I lived with six brothers and two sisters in a small Local Authority House in Shanganagh."

Yes, poetry it ain't.

True. But then a poet you ain't. (Sarah777 21:01, 6 June 2007 (UTC))

---

Shankill was part of Dublin County Council, up until 1st Jan 1994, when it became DLR CC. If you look through the pile of edits you've foisted on this sentence, you'll see I changed it to placate you, but it clearly wasn't enough. Here we go again with another sentence. Please, Sarah777, can you let it stand? Will it keep you up all night worrying when this evil IP will revisit the sentence?

New Link, Old Line

I've created a link to the non-existent article for "Local Authority Housing". Perhaps Sarah777 can take her lumpentrolling there, as she seems to have a deep and thorough understanding of the fine difference between houses, council houses, local authority houses and trollhouses.

Indeed I do, thanks. But lumpentrolling? You really have it in for the poor Germans as well as LA tenants. (Sarah777 01:57, 6 June 2007 (UTC))

"chutzpahtic" - you really have it in for the entire English language it seems.

I modified your latest effort only slightly; you have done some research and learnt something. My tweak was to allow for the fact that many of the houses are now in private ownership; I'm as much a stickler for accuracy as you are! I'm willing to call it "agreed" if you are.Regards (Sarah777 02:11, 6 June 2007 (UTC))

"you have done some research and learned something" - does this mean that you make edits on the basis of what you think personally, that is, your point of view? How could you deem anything incorrect/correct if this is how you decide it. This does not bode well for your ascendancy to the WP godlike genius section.

zzzz. Call it agreed? I think you're incapable of agreement on anything. You can also keep your patronising tone. I'll be here editing this and other articles you feel need protecting indefinitely.

Cool! As you know (or maybe not) I'm launching a campaign for Adminship - all the edit points I get reverting your dross will be just SUPER! Ta v much! (Sarah777 00:01, 7 June 2007 (UTC))

I'm surprised that on this article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue

it doesn't have lots of edits with your name to them - citation needed - "sky blue = POV" etc.

Hmmmm. Yes. Interesting. Hmmmm. (Sarah777 00:01, 7 June 2007 (UTC))

Interesting

Interesting, my friend works for NTL broadband, and often has to track addresses for a certain state agency. I was very tempted to show her this page earlier on. But I didn't. IP, we are watching you! Your IP is public is in the public domain! Gold♥ 00:56, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Rathmicheal

Generally regarded as separate area (ask one of the millionaire residents!!); some Shankill boosters are trying to claim it! (Sarah777 19:57, 30 August 2007 (UTC))

Shankill Castle, smack bang in the middle of Rathmichael is, according to [[2]], located in the townland of Shankill in the parish of Rathmichael. What determines location, geography or developers? I'm still confused Suckindiesel 23:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Saw this when assessing. I was a bit surprised at the claim in the article that Shankill had expanded to take in Rathmichael, at least as old an area, with its own history. The wording quoted above suggests that Shankill is (or was) in fact a subsidiary part of Rathmichael (a townland within a civil parish). Unless evidence is forthcoming, I suggest then that the two articles are written distinctly. But any input from those living more locally? SeoR 06:39, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

The 2006 Census splits Shankill into three areas: Shankill-Rathmichael, Shankill-Rathsallagh & Shankill-Shanganagh, giving the total quoted pop of 13,242. Any comment from a local editor? Suckindiesel 19:59, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Well I'm localish and certainly Rathmichael was always a semi-rural area west of Shankill and apart from it in my memory. I extract this from the Cherrywood article:

"History - Cherrywood is being formed around the business park, in a deliberate process under a Cherrywood-Carrickmines Local Area Plan, the 2004 County Development Plan, and a related Cherrywood-Rathmichael Area Plan. At present, Cherrywood is designated as a District Centre, and strict limits apply to certain forms of development there.

The LAP's clearly indicate that DL County Co. regards Cherrywood, Carrickmines and Rathmichael as separate areas. No mention of Shankill. (Sarah777 23:05, 31 August 2007 (UTC))

Looks like it is time to do something about Rathmichael as a distinct area, as such historical evidence as there is suggests it actually has a stronger historical identity, which probably included Shankill. SeoR (talk) 10:17, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Harrington

He lives in Rtahmichael, not Shankill, theres a difference, its like saying Delgany is in Greystones, it's not —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plokt (talk • contribs) 13:19, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Shanganagh (Park) House

I have noticed that we have references to both Shanganagh House, and Shanganagh Park House on this page. For example, the photo section has a photo, labelled "Shanganagh House", but as a local I know it to be Shanganagh Park House. I did once edit the article to read "Park", but it was reverted. Anyone want to give an opinion on which one to use, and why? --86.43.208.187 00:21, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

• Ref #8 calls it Shanganagh House, as do old OS maps. No idea where the Park bit came from. Suckindiesel 00:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Shankhill

The 1906 railway map File:Map_Rail_Ireland_Viceregal_Commission_1906.jpg seems to have H as in Shankhill --Rumping (talk) 15:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, as does the normally reliable [3] for both Shankhill stations, i.e. the Harcourt St & the Westland Row lines. I've also seen this spelling used as the name of Carrickgollogan hill in a 19th century guide book. Suckindiesel (talk) 22:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

some text to incorporate later - some for this article, some for Rathmichael

Ballycorus, which were then farmed by Edward Buller, of Laughanstown, six English and two Irish, occupying three houses (1).

The lands of Shanganagh, which had been occupied under the Commonwealth by John and Henry Baxter, were restored by the Commissioners of Settlement to John Walsh. He was a direct descendant of the last-mentioned owner (the John Walsh who died in 1600), who had been succeeded in turn by his son James Walsh, by his grandson John Walsh, who married a daughter of Sir Robert Kennedy, Bart., of Newtownmountkennedy, and by his great-grandson Edmond Walsh, the father of the claimant at the Restoration. The claimant was only a youth, but his cause had influential supporters in his grandfather. Sir Robert Kennedy, and his uncle. Sir Richard Kennedy, who was one of the Barons of the Exchequer. He died in 1671, and was succeeded successively by his son, Edward Walsh, and another, John Walsh, who in 1705 was licensed as a loyal Roman Catholic to keep a sword, a case of pistols, and a gun. The Walshes' occupation of Shanganagh did not cease until the middle of the eighteenth century. The lands of Shanganagh, together with the Walshes' property in Old Connaught parish, passed then into the possession of the family of Roberts, now represented by Captain Lewis Riall, and in 1763 the castle of Shanganagh was destroyed by a disastrous fire (2).

The lands of Shankill, which had been held under the Common- wealth by Owen Vaughan, were restored by the Commissioners of Settlement to Christopher Barnewall, a son of Robert Barnewall. He died in 1673, and was succeeded by his son Robert Barnewall. Subsequently the lands passed into the possession of the family of Lawless, who appear once more in the district as its occupants. In the castle died in 1743 Mrs. Lawless, " one of the greatest farmers in the kingdom, who was universally esteemed for her hospitality, charity, and other virtues; and in 1751 Mrs. Clare Lawless, "a young gentlewoman of many valuable qualities"; while in 1795 we find Mr. Barry Lawless, of Shankill, serving on the County Dublin Grand Jury (3). Austin Cooper says that in 1782 the

(1) Census of 1659 ; Hearth Money and Subsidy Rolls.

(2) Decree of Innocents; Chancery Inquisition, Co. Dublin, Car. I., No. 73; Jac. II., No. 2 ; Ormonde Manuscripts, vol. ii., p. 475, published by Historical Manuscripts Commission ; Registry of Deeds, Lib. 158, p. 78 ; Pue's Occurrences, vol, Ix., No. 23.

(*) Decree of Innocents Roll, ix., m. 23 ; Will of Christopher Barnewall ; Dublin Journal, Nos. 1838, 2487; Anthologia Hibernica for 1703, p. 323; Cooper's Note Book.

do

l»ABIdH OF RA9HMICHASL.

castle was in a very ruinous state, and describes it as a low square castle built of the mountain stone, with a dwelling house adjoining, which was also in need of repair.

ECCLESIASTICAL HISTORY.

The ruined church of Rathmichael occupies the site of what was doubtless an important Celtic religious establishment, and although the ancient remains have suffered extremely from destroyers, and even from those who intended to preserve them, there are still sufficient traces of that establishment left to make Rathmichael, with its fine position and wide outlook, the most attractive site of a Celtic religious foundation to be found in the southern portion of the County Dublin. Extensive remains of the circumvallation, partly of earth and partly of stone, by which' the Celtic establish- ment was surrounded, were to be seen early in the nineteenth

I I

I Naro.

I —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.88.252 (talk) 11:29, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Rating, content division

On an old topic, this aricle needs separation of the Shankill and Rathmichael material, and for that matter, removal of any other extraneous material to the proper article (there may be some of Loughlinstown here), as it does in places rather stretch the definition of Shankill. In current circumstances, I am also unconvinced of a B rating - I would tend to say C. SeoR (talk) 14:22, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

old pic of shankill

If you have an interest in Shankill you may find these pics interesting, an old aerial photo from the cushman archive from about 1962 (click to zoom in)

http://i.imgur.com/qetCo.jpg

I've also overlaid where the new roads and estates are now on this image (click to zoom in)

http://imgur.com/18qYu

as you can see shankill was fairly much unchanged until about 1965-1975 when serious development happened in Rathsallagh, Quinn's Road and Seaview — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.138.80 (talk) 17:46, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

That is interesting. Well done. Would you not create a user account yourself? DubhEire (talk) 18:15, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

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