Talk:Seven churches of Asia

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Not from Jesus Christ[edit]

In Rev 1:1 John explains that God gave him the revelation "of Jesus Christ" through an angel, not Jesus Christ. Therefore the trumpet voice in Rev 1:10 is from God, while the voice "of many waters" in Rev 1:15 is the angel. The two voices sound different. Similarly, it was God who said, in a trumpet voice, "Come up here ..." (Rev 4:1). The angel is confirmed in Rev 22:8,9.

So it was God who told John to send the Revelation to the seven churches and the angel who told him to write to the angel of each church. The situation is that the seven churches would receive the Revelation - including the written letters sent to each church angel - while each church could avoid being mislead when their leaders claim, "God told me ..." because they could check with their "letter". Can anyone clarify this? PeterMG (talk) 00:23, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Correct the message is from God. Specifically verse one says God gave it to Jesus Christ to give to his servants signified by his Angel. It is not the Angel speaking for the Angel was not dead and then alive Again it was Jesus who was Dead and then resurrected. In verse ten he turns to see the one who spoke and in verses seventeen and eighteen he says he is the one who was dead and is alive again as said before. An Angel has not ever died as recorded by previous scripture. They are not flesh but spirit.

The angel did not give the message Jesus did signifying it by his angel.

The entirety of chapter one is the same person speaking the angel does not speak until later in the book at all.

79.107.125.163 (talk) 10:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Added note regarding history of candles from widkipedia page The beginning of knowledge (talk) 20:14, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The greek and hebrew words translated as angel can be legitmately translated as messenger and are done so in the KJ bible. The begining of knowledge (talk) 02:00, 20 April 2010 (UTC) the beginning of wisdom[reply]

Seven angels?[edit]

Editors have added, "The historical understanding of the seven churches sees the angels as seven men God has used to direct and guide the Church. The Greek word for angels can also be used of human messengers, as in Luke 7:24. Some proponents of this view regard Paul as the first messenger and include Martin Luther and John Wesley as messengers also.[13]"

Several problems. The Luke scripture doesn't seem to say this at all.

Secondly, this seems to be the statement of one evangelical minister, not "Some proponents." Nor, apparently, does the proponent have "seven: candidates for angels, just three. This seems wierd. I propose to delete it. Student7 (talk) 16:11, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Luke 7:24 uses the Greek word for angels - it is translated as "messengers" by KJV, NIV, NASB.(Search God's Word) See Mat 11:10, Mark 1:2, Luke 7:27, Luke 9:52, James 2:25 where the Greek word for angels is also translated as (human) messenger/s.

The linked reference to "An Exposition of the Seven Church ages" by Rev Wiliam Branham makes mention of seven messengers: Paul, Irenaeus, Martin, Columba, Luther, Wesley, and the messenger to the Laodicean church age who is not named. Other ministers who recognize the doctrinal teaching of William Branham have included his name as the seventh. The three names included in the Wikipedia article are the three most well known. Rev107 (talk) 06:36, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is out of context. The previous chapter starts, "Summoning two of his disciples, John sent them to the Lord, saying...." So they were human beings when they were first sent. I don't see anything in the chapter that caused them to be modified into angels. Yes, a word may be translated as "angels", but that doesn't mean it always is!

I am not sure what you are arguing here but do you agree that the same Greek word can mean heavenly messengers (angels) as well as human messengers, as in Mat 11:10, Mark 1:2, Luke 7:27, Luke 9:52, James 2:25?

Rev 1:20 says the "stars" in Jesus' right hand are the "angels" of the churches. Daniel 12:3 likens Scriptural teachers to the stars: And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Rev107 (talk) 05:25, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Branham was not educated. He is not a theologian or etymologist or anything regarded as a reliable credential by an encyclopedia. He may be a "seer", but this credential alone is insufficient for use here where a WP:RELY citation is needed. This appears to be a WP:FRINGE theory, Wikipedia is not obligated to print people's pet, or "fringe" theories. They are, however, suitable for other venues. There are blogs and religious pages where this idea can be promulgated. Student7 (talk) 12:46, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dictionaries of 20th century Christianity place Branham as the founder of the post WW11 healing movement - this eventually led to the modern charismatic movement. As such his ideas still influence church leaders today. Nevertheless, I do not wish to argue about this matter, and will accept your decision to delete my additions. Rev107 (talk) 05:25, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Really need good article on Christian numerology here[edit]

A user has partially developed Biblical numerology which is almost usable here as a link. The user seems to be inactive. Would like to grab it myself and polish if I had time. Student7 (talk) 02:31, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops! Not that close. The article was Afd-ed the last time out. May need more work that it seems. Student7 (talk) 02:35, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Biblical Archaeology Efforts[edit]

Little can be found online about current research or excavation of historical church sites in Asia Minor. Can anyone add information that relates to the current state of Biblical archaeology in the area?

Thanks for your time! God bless.

Lord Fox the Mystic (talk) 16:34, 5 December 2018 (UTC)Lord Fox the MysticLord Fox the Mystic (talk) 16:34, 5 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Map Error[edit]

Thyatira is misspelled on the map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.37.84.21 (talk) 11:50, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Patmos is not one of the churches of Asia[edit]

Patmos is important in its own right but it is not one of the churches of Asia. The map highlights Patmos in addition to Seven Churches of Asia. Patmos is no more important than Halicarnassus, Samos, Chios, Lesbos, Troy etc. in this context, which can all be located in this map. Patmos should not be highlighted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AverageTurkishJoe (talk • contribs) 12:26, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Morning Star[edit]

🔥💯💢🕳️💨🎉 my name is ROBERT TRABISH JR I am the Morning Star of Jesus this is my project no one else's I SWEAR TO THE ALPHA AND OMEGA ANGEL I SEEN COMING AND THE ONLY ONE STANDING IN THE LIGHT FROM WHICH HE IS Alpha Omega.Star (talk) 11:53, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I need rights to the tree of Life scripture plagues I'm going to have to add to myself as to my scripture for this Bible because I'm adding and taken away[edit]

ROBERT TRABISH JR Alpha Omega.Star (talk) 11:55, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And in the new ARMAGEDDON BIBLE[edit]

I SWEAR to GOD Alpha Omega.Star (talk) 11:56, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Get somebody down here I'm homeless and I need a place to live while me and some editor book writer Thomas Nelson can set together and write it together[edit]

amen And yes New Zion with the two fingers pointing at each other church has what they need for us to prevail and make do therefore prosper and that's sincerity I'm tired of playing the fool for Alpha Omega.Star (talk) 11:59, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Get Thomas Nelson down here to Corbin Kentucky I want him to pick me up take me to a motel room and we are riding the Bible together only if I go on camera with him[edit]

. Or killing the cartel and the rest of the world will be the beginning Alpha Omega.Star (talk) 12:18, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]