Talk:Serb Democratic Party (Bosnia and Herzegovina)

Pro-EU

• SDS (together with SDA, HDZ, PDP and HDZ1990) one year ago joined the pro-EU declaration of values proposed by the EPP (see sources on the page).
• SDS leaders Mladen Bosic and Ognjen Tadic are openly in favour of the EU integration and they supported it also during electoral campaign.
• SDS will form new BiH government with the pro-EU coalition of SDA, HDZ and DF. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Serb1914 (talk • contribs) 16:47, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Debate over Islamophobia, Pro or Anti European, and Separatism

If you have evidence, please put it in this table, under the appropriate heading, with either a +, to indicate support for the heading, or a -, to indicate a rebuttal to the heading. That way, all the evidence can be seen and weighed before the final revision is determined.

Please put only things with citations in this table. If you have a reason why a piece of evidence is wrong, put your reason in the same box, without changing the initial evidence listing, and include a citation of your own. Iwilsonp (talk) 22:36, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Islamphobia, War against Islam...	Pro-European	Separatist
Evidence	Here there references about Pro-EU declaration that SDS and other centre-right parties in BiH have signed with European People's Party and his president Joseph Daul in Sarajevo	Evidence
Evidence	Radovan Karadzic is not more member of SDS from 1996. All the references about his work now doesn't concern SDS.	Evidence
Evidence	Milorad Ekmecic is an antifascist prominent historian. He is NOT more member of SDS like Plavsic, Karadzic and all other politicians of 90s. The leaders are now Mladen Bosic and Ognjen Tadic and they are close to EPP.	Evidence
+ Here we have a speech of Radovan Karadzic.
+ Serb1914 says SDS has departed from Karadzic's ideology, but his daughter, Sonja Karadzic is a prominent party member and has vowed to "continue her father's policies"
+ Karadzic's ideology hasn't changed a bit until today, a much more recent source
+ Here is some about other SDS party members, Biljana Plavsic;
+ Milorad Ekmecic , a member of PRESENT-DAY SDS (so, obviously not someone who doesn't affect SDS anymore) says he wouldn't mind Bosnia war to repeat and urges West to stop the creation of an Islamic State in Europe
Evidence	- Karadzic says EU and Vatican have used Serbs to take care of the "muslim problem" in Europe
Evidence	- Here, he blames Germany and Vatican for "participating in Yugoslavia's destruction?"
Evidence	- Ekmecic (SDS member) says Serbs are a "virus that will destroy the USA and the West"
+ Predrag Kovac, modern-day SDS member, Bosnian Serb elite soldier from 90's, running for vice-president This same man gives donations to CONVICTED Serb war criminals and praises them as "heroes"??
Evidence	Evidence	+ SDS Separatism of Karadzic (obviously)
Evidence	Sonja Karadzic is only a MP and she isn't in the leadership of the party.
Evidence	SDS accepted the british-german Pro-EU initiative and now is in the pro-european government coalition with SDA, DF and HDZ.
Evidence	All the sources about former members can't be considered because they are not in the current leadership of the party. [1]</ref>

Iwilsonp (talk) 23:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Consensus

So any consensus, what's the final decision? The Destroyer Of Nyr (talk) 23:26, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Rename

I moved page from "Serb" to "Serbian" few days ago, under explanation that this is an official translation. However, I was reverted by Zoupan. I'll copy/paste his explanation for the revert he left on my talk page.

I think that the proper use for Serb minority parties is "Serb" and not "Serbian". However, if the party uses "Serbian" in English, I support moving it to the latter. Their official page is only in Serbian language.

These use "Serb Democratic Party":

• Council of Europe: Parliamentary Assembly (8 November 2006). Documents: working papers, 2006 ordinary session (first part), 23 -27 January 2006, Vol. 2: Documents 10770-10823. Council of Europe. pp. 152–. ISBN 978-92-871-5955-7.
• International Chamber of Commerce (1 November 2003). Europe Review 2003/04: The Economic and Business Report. Kogan Page Publishers. pp. 56–. ISBN 978-0-7494-4067-1.
• Mirko Pejanović (2004). Through Bosnian Eyes: The Political Memoir of a Bosnian Serb. Purdue University Press. pp. 17–. ISBN 978-1-55753-359-3.
• Central Intelligence Agency, Office of Public Affairs. The World Factbook 2008. Government Printing Office. pp. 78–. ISBN 978-0-16-087361-4., and again in 2009 and 2015
• Bosnia peace operation mission, structure, and transition strategy of NATO's Stabilization Force : report to the chairman, Committee on Foreign Relations, U.S. Senate. DIANE Publishing. pp. 23–. ISBN 978-1-4289-7530-9.
• Radovan V. Karadžić; Momo Kapor (2005). Intervjui i govori dr Radovana Karadžića. Međunarodni odbor za istinu o Radovanu Karadžiću. p. 138.

I think you should revert your moves.--Zoupan 20:16, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

First of all, Serbian Democratic Party is not a "minority Serb party". It doesn't represent a Serb minority, which doesn't exist on the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina, where Serbs are actually a "majority", or to use a legal term - one of the tree constituent nations. Indeed, party only uses Serbian language on its official page (which is visible from the link provided by Zoupan). However, per WP:COMMONNAME, the term "Serbian" is used more ofter, as can be seen here and here, wher there are 8,710 results for the term "Serb", compared to 22,400 for the term "Serbian". The latter term is also preferred by the Encyclopedia Britannica. More over, Republika Srpska's state news agency also uses the term "Serbian" in its translations, as can be seen here. Among prominent institutions using the term "Serbian", inter alia, are ICTY ([1]), NATO ([2]) and the UN ([3]). --AnulBanul (talk) 03:22, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

I meant overall Serb minorities. Republika Srpska is "Serb Republic"; why would SDS be "Serbian"? Your Gbooks hits are wrong (you need to go from the last page, until there is visible quotes). My hits (-llc -wikipedia, +Bosnia): 67 "Serb", and ca. 90 "Serbian". Also, the Republika Srpska's state news agency uses "Serb" as can be seen here. So, disregarding ICTY, NATO and the UN, which uses both, we need to come up with the proper name. Invite WPRS and WPSR?--Zoupan 20:57, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Quite true, Zoupan. Besides, the adjective "Serbian" obviously refers to something pertaining to the country of Serbia, while the adjective "Serb" refers to something pertaining to the people. I suppose they are analogous to the terms srbijanski and srpski. Surtsicna (talk) 00:39, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

The term "Serb" would suggest that the party is an ethnic party, which it isn't. For example, there are some Croats who are representatives in the National Assembly, and are members of this party. You have numerous examples in Bosnia-Herzegovina using similar terms, for example Croatian Democratic Union of Bosnia and Herzegovina or New Croatian Initiative. Moreover, the Oxford dictionary says that, as an adjective, the term Serbian refers to something "related to Serbia or Serbs, or their language" ([4]), which means that Surtsicna, you're not right on this one. The same definition was given for the term Serb, though primary definition is "a native or inhabitant (!) of Serbia", regardless of ethnicity ([5]). Both of you, Zoupan and Surtscina, constructed your conclusions from false premises. I will invite other users for rfc though.

P. S. Zoupan, regarding the Gbooks, now, I've got 199 results for Serb and 351 results for Serbian. --AnulBanul (talk) 04:19, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

It's still not clear what Zoupan meant by "Serb minority parties". It does look that he meant that the Serbs are some freaking minority in BiH. I don't have a definite opinion on the nomenclature, but since it is obvious that AnulBanul understands the situation in BiH much better, I support his proposal. Vladimir (talk) 18:16, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

The "situation in BiH" has little to nothing to do with the semantics, however, and AnulBanul's understanding of the situation is difficult to distinguish from claims that represent solely his point of view. Anyway, could it not be that Zoupan referred to the party as a minority party of Serb people rather than a party of the Serb minority? Either way, his Serb Republic analogy holds much weight. If the terms are taken to mean the same thing, there is no reason to change anything. Surtsicna (talk) 18:52, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Serb Republic is rarely used as translation for Republika Srpska, this argument is baseless. There's no generally accepted translation for Republika Srpska, and that's the reason why the article about it is named Republika Srpska. Moreover, official government pages use "Republic of Srpska" as translation to Republika Srpska. That analogy, by Zoupan, is therefore wrong. --AnulBanul (talk) 14:10, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Okey, Zoupan is a great editor and he has some points here too, but AnulBanul also has arguments for his proposal. Whatever is decided, it's OK with me. Cheers! Vladimir (talk) 17:37, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for causing any confusion with "Serb minority parties" (Ethnic minority political parties of Serbs); I am aware of the status of Serbs in BiH. I don't think that the Republika Srpska—Serb Republic translation can be taken as wrong, as it is used at times when the name is translated (historically also as "Bosnian Serb Republic"), though the official/conventional use is Republika Srpska, and also scarcely as Republic of Srpska. Now, even if the definition of Serb as "a native or inhabitant of Serbia" is correct, it is in no way the common definition — "ethnic Serb", regardless of nationality. The correct term for natives or inhabitants of Serbia is Serbian(s) in English. This decision should therefore not be made on Gbook hits. B92 uses "Serb", for both the republic (Serb Republic) and the party (Serb Democratic Party).--Zoupan 20:39, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

• In the English Language what is the most common translation of Српска демократска Странка/Srpska Demokratska Stranka? The whole thing and not just the first word. It also seems like the parameters are being artificially narrowed. I see a link to Google Bosnia. I see the call to look over at gbooks. We should look at gbooks, google main site, perhaps google scholar, do a search on major news sites, or what ever else so that we are getting a broad picture. From the discussion here I'd lean more towards Serbian.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 14:57, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

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