Talk:Saint Michael the Archangel Church (Monroe, Michigan)

This article was nominated for deletion on 9 January 2020. The result of the discussion was keep.

Article needs help[edit]

I'm not a big fan of this church having its own article, but that opinion might come from the terrible manner in which this article is presented. This article is one of the most poorly written articles I've ever encountered. However, I'm not going to support or propose the article's deletion or merger (yet), because there may be some notability after a better revision is constructed with multiple references. Churches are not my area of interest, especially if they are not listed on the NRHP or as a Michigan Historic Site. This article contains a ton of weasel words, impartial and bias phrases (puffery), and colloquial statements (see Words to watch). There are no citations, and the only reference is the church's website. Despite recent edits from a novice user who seems to have some devotion to the article (as well as removing a previous cleanup tag), it reads like a church pamphlet and needs a complete rewrite. —Notorious4life (talk) 01:40, 8 May 2019 (UTC) [reply]

Thank you for your insight. The information presented on this page comes from a published book on the history of this church. The book is Partners in Faith, which is mentioned in the article. Obviously someone failed to add that as a citation. After some research, I have concluded the page contains valid historical facts and there are very few cases of “advertising” in this article. If you could quote the areas where you believe there are advertisements that would be greatly appreciated and we can collaborate to fix this page. This page was obviously not made by a historian nor was it made by a scholar of writing but their historical facts comes from an official church issued history book which was published nearly 16 years ago and can be found at the local libraries. This church does deserve an article because of the historical presence it has in the Monroe community, which citizens of said city and fellow Catholics would understand. Thank you for your consideration and I hope we can collaborate to fix this. Joe12570 (talk) 18:18, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the church has the local history to warrant its own article, but the way the article is presented and written doesn't do any justice. It looks like it was written by a seventh grader with no understanding of the writing style required for Wikipedia. The article flows very poorly—bouncing from one subject to another with no references. While some issues are minor, the article contains a ton of substandard language unfitting of an encyclopedic article. Examples include beautiful, breathtaking, most historic and beautiful churches, bright future ahead with many good things to come, and When you come into Monroe you can easily see St. Michael's. These reek of bias and make an experienced reader cringe. It presents a terrible non-neutral theme and provides no insightful information. The article contains too much fluff and would benefit more with a lot of information omitted.

You obviously must be affiliated with the church in some way, which can provide good insight. I write a lot about what I know, and it certainly helps with seeking and organizing information. I suggest reading other church articles on Wikipedia and see how they are written and structured. Most good articles tend to emphasize important aspects in the church's history, notable members, affiliations, and architecture, rather than the church's personal message ("Parish Prayer" section) or overly descriptive and mundane details. Any good article will also utilize a good number of external sources not connected to the church (archival documents, newspaper articles, credible websites, major historical events, etc.). Of course, primary church documents are also valuable when presented in a non-bias format. —Notorious4life (talk) 02:17, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Research is key![edit]

I agree with you. I am not affiliated with the church, I’ve only seen it the city skyline or just passing by it. It’s not hard to take notice of this structure in Monroe. Judging by your biography you seem to have an interest and history and my guess you would also have an interest in local history. Perhaps you could add your neutral insight of the church by researching facts. I can do my part by assisting in cleaning up the page. Your outsider viewpoint will help make the article better since it won’t be written by someone affiliated with the church unlike the person who wrote it. Thanks. Joe12570 (talk) 20:47, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion[edit]

Hello, I have seen that there was a discussion on the possible deletion of this article. I firmly believe that it shouldn’t be deleted for the reasons people stated. I would love to discuss with those who think otherwise. Thanks,Joe12570 (talk) 04:23, 31 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]