Talk:Royal Maundy/Archive 1

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Archive 1

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1822 or 1662

"Maundy money as such started in the reign of Charles II with an undated issue of hammered coins in 1662. The coins were a fourpenny, threepenny, twopenny and one penny piece but it was not until 1670 that a dated set of all four coins appeared."
The Royal mint

Also Grueber (p. 130) supports the same opinion. ( Herbert Grueber, Handbook of the Coins of Great Britain and Ireland in the British Museum. London, 1899. (1970 reprint ISBN 1402110901)

Here's an image

--Carlo Morino aka zi' Carlo 21:11, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Where did the name "Maundy" originate?

And what does it mean? 75.76.213.106 (talk) 02:03, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Gallery

Instead of the gallery of images at the bottom, I think I'd rather see the images of the coins moved up next to the text. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:33, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Old comments

I suspect that "... of All the Britons" is a wrong expansion of the abbreviations, and that it would really come out as "... of All Britain". Kinship is the Celtic approach, but the one prevalent in the UK is geographical. The Archbishops of York and Canterbury are Primates of England and All England respectively, not of the English. And so on. PML.

Possibly. In full I think it's BRITTANNIARUM, but it's 30 years since I did Latin, so I've forgotten my declensions! I have some vague thought that the OMN may imply "all its posessions". -- Arwel 00:33 Mar 19, 2003 (UTC)

Here's a source [1] but I don't know how accurate it is. It might be just a pronunciation issue. *grin* - Hephaestos

Sigh! It's a good site - I've only spotted a couple of places where I disagree with them, but for BRITANNIARUM OMNIUM , abbr to BRIT(T) OMN it gives "King of all the Britains", and for BRITANNIARUM REX it gives "King of the Britains". However, if you go near the bottom of the page and click "George V inscriptions" it gives BRITT OMN / BRITANNIARUM OMNIUM as "of all the Britons". You can't win, y'know! -- Arwel 02:00 Mar 19, 2003 (UTC)
The Latin for Britain is Britannia (or Brittania - the Romans couldn't figure out spell it either!). "Of Britain" is therefore Britanniae (or Brittaniae), "of the Britains" (which is what is being abbreviated here) is Britanniarum (or Brittaniarum), "of all the Britains" unabbreviates to omnium Britanniarum. The abbreviation is obviously not one of a word for Britons. The Latin words for Britons are Brit(t)a(n)ni and Brit(t)ones; therefore "of the Britons" would be Britannorum or Brittonum, neither of which abbreviates to "BRITANNIAR". 82.36.26.229 01:52, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Okay, a weird question: I happened to visit the Tower of London and go through the Crown Jewels exhibit on Maundy Thursday, 1991. In one of the cases was a label for a Maundy Thursday foot-washing basin, and a second placard saying that it was in use, in place of the basin. If the monarch hasn't washed feet in centuries, who uses the basin, and for what? Vicki Rosenzweig
Maybe the Governor of the Tower had dirty feet! Arwel
I'm guessing it was off for maintenance; that's common in museums. Hephaestos

Until 1820 ordinary silver coinage was used for the Maundy money, but from 1822 special coins were minted in values of 1, 2, 3, and 4 pence.

Now I'm curious.

  1. What happened in 1821?
  2. I know there used to be a silver 1d in general circulation, was this change related to its discontinuation? (Or is my conception of the timeframe of its discontinuation way way off?)

Hephaestos

It doesn't look like any silver pennies were minted in 1821 (or indeed in most years -- the catalogues list them as being minted in 1800, 1817, 1818, and 1820. I presume they simply gave away old coins that year. From 1822 onwards they were minted exclusively for the Maundy sets. Copper pennies (the cartwheels) were minted in 1797, and lighter ones in 1806, 07 and 08, then no more until 1825. The coinage was in a bit of a mess in those days! A long article on pennies is next on my list of things to do, but probably not until next week -- I need to spend a bit of time at my mothers', what with it being Mothers Day over here this weekend, and her being 81... -- Arwel 02:29 Mar 27, 2003 (UTC)
To answer the first question above: in those parts of England subject to the special ecclesiastical jurisdiction of the Church of England, which of course included the church precincts where Maundy distributions took place, there was no year 1821, for reasons having to do with the shift to the Gregorian calendar and the complication caused by 1820 having been both a leap year and the end of the Regency. That year was followed directly by 1822 and it was decreed in that connexion (Act 1 Geo. IV ch. 3) that the new series of special purpose Maundy money should be struck. Cheers, 69.3.211.47 (talk) 06:40, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
Most interesting! Do you have a source for that? It isn't mentioned in Robinson's books.--Wehwalt (talk) 06:42, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Changes

Having watched the highlights video from the BBC, it looks like the Maundy Children are again wearing towels. As the news articles come in, I'll keep adjusting as necessary.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:33, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Maundy

Wehwalt's edit The words are pronounced conventionally, what is the point of having pronunciations? is reasonable I suppose. The source on my previous edit on this page was by experts, and therefore reliable. I wasn’t sure after reading the article if it was “M-aw-n dee,” “M-uh-n dee” or “M-uh-n d-ay.” And, the directions said “be bold.” So, rather than mentioning it here, I looked it up on a reliable source: Columbia Encyclopedia, Columbia University Press, via Infoplease. Someone, as if he could care less about me, called info please “not a reliable source.” That was a very uncivil edit summary, in my opinion. I then used another reliable source, Random House Dictionary, but Wehwalt thinks readers should know how to pronounce Maundy by looking at it. I didn't. I thought it looked like M-aw-n d-ee, which was a mouthfull. So, I looked it up perhaps wondering if is was pronounced like Monday, i.e M-uh-n D-ay. Sorry if my edit wasn't great.--Rhbsihvi (talk) 04:55, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

It's OK. Have you checked out WP:PRONOUNCE? I think you'd be OK if you did it in IPA.--Wehwalt (talk) 05:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
After reflection, I now wonder if the word is pronounced the same as the word, “Monday.” If it is, that might be more informative than IPA or another system. In fact I now think I may have heard the term “Monday Thursday” on television a long time age. I’m not Catholic or Anglican, so this article is where I learned what Maundy Thursday is. Something to do with not tracking mud into the house. The IPA is gibberish to me. I’ll read WP:PRONOUNCE. Thanks. --Rhbsihvi (talk) 06:34, 22 April 2011 (UTC)(11:34 pst).
I do not understand IPA either. I tend to stick close to the MOS, so if you want pronunciations in there, the IPA seems required. But my reading of it is that it can be the IPA and something else.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:52, 22 April 2011 (UTC)--Wehwalt (talk) 08:52, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Mary Poppins and Tuppence

Are these what Mary Poppins and Mr Banks are talking about when they sing "Tuppence?" It seems to make sense, that 1910 Britons would think it deplorable that the child wasn't allowed to give tuppence(Maundy Money) to the poor.

If this is it, a mention of Mary Poppins would belong in this article, as this would explain what this part of the movie/book was about.

97.113.77.20 (talk) 21:17, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Maundy money is only given out by the monarch and then only on Maundy Thursday, the Thursday before Easter. - PKM (talk) 22:54, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I believe in the movie, there is a close up shot of Michael holding two copper pennies. It has nothing to do with Maundy money.--Wehwalt (talk) 06:43, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
Correct. 'Tuppence' was the common English term for two old pence (2d). The term effectively died with decimalisation as two new pence (2p) is referred to as - well, 'two pence'.
I note that article fails to note that the Maundy coins underwent a 140% inflation in face value following decimalisation in 1971 as the previous coins were 1d, 2d, 3d and 4d in value (all old pence) and following decimalisation became 1p, 2p, 3p and 4p (all new pence). 109.145.22.224 (talk) 16:01, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
That's already in there. Last paragraph of "Development and Design". Some also say that it made the currency threepences in the year they were struck to Maundy designs equal to 3p, but I doubt there's ever been a rush to turn them in, given that they are silver. Didn't feel comfortable enough with sources to put that in though.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:06, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Locations

The article states that, most years since 1957, the Maundy ceremony has been held outside London, starting with St Albans in that year. Do we have a list of the locations since then? Skinsmoke (talk) 17:49, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Not on Wikipedia; there is one here, a source used in the article (footnote 2).--Wehwalt (talk) 18:07, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps an idea to incorporate into the article (or hive off as a separate sub page). Skinsmoke (talk) 16:22, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
No objection to a separate list, which would also mention the various places in London where it has been held. I probably am not likely to do it anytime soon, though.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:40, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

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