Talk:Roy Masters (commentator)/Archive 1

August 2007 proposal to change talk page material

Within the next few days, I will remove ALL material here which is not signed by an editor. I will also remove ALL material whose sole purpose is to debate whether or not Roy's comments are helpful. If the proponents and opponents with to create "In praise of Roy Masters" or "Why Roy Masters is evil" pages, I will leave such links in here for one more week. Otherwise, all of this material is completely inappropriate for an encyclopedia, which should merely inform people of the basics of Roy's history, career, and main themes. VisitorTalk 04:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC) Cleanups to this Talk page:

• I am a new user to Wikipedia and have not made any edits or contributions before this week, nor had communications with other Wikipedia editors.
• Removed unsupported and potentially libelous statements by editor Henry Nichols.
• Removed unsupported, uncredited, and potentially libelous statements about another editor (not even about the subject of the article).
• Removed a comment by editor Bennie Noakes about language that is not in my rewrite of the article.
• Removed uncredited statement about Roy's 9/11 comments.
• Removed uncredited suggestion that Roy's background in gemology be mentioned. Please restore the comment if there is a concern that this part of his background should be discussed further.
• Removed editor Prairie Dog's assertion of reprehensible 9/11 commentary by Roy. Please restore the comment if there is supporting third party evidence such as transcripts or recordings of the program in question.
• Larry Holmgren, please advise if the present version includes all the biographical information you mentioned.
• Removed section on the show ending because it continues and I listened to it this week.
• Is Rob Harvey a Wikipedia editor or a third party source quoted without attribution?
• Removed uncredited paragraph ending in "He doesn't know what the hell he's talking about." This was a personal opinion from someone not willing to sign their name. If the editor would like to provide verifiable sources for the alleged questionable statements by Roy, please add them.
• Will the person who referenced Lyndon LaRouche please clarify why that reference is on this page.
• Unnamed user referring to music selections on the show: Do we have evidence those were Roy's choices, rather than inserted at the syndication process by someone else?
• Removed comments alleging to be Wikipedia administration and alleging to be editor Jason Clark. If either were real people, please restore relevant, constructive criticism about the Roy Masters article - NOT attacks or supporting of what is claimed to be Roy's message.
• User Redvers, please indicate if your watch activity is still current.
• Removed material relating to "edit wars" and "idiots."

VisitorTalk 04:57, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I rewrote the article. Major changes:

• Added sections to create organization in the article
• Added a fair, neutral summary of Roy's teachings and the controversies about them.

I believe my revised article is dramatically better than the previous mess. - VisitorTalk

March 2007

He who speaks does not know, he who knows does not speak. Don't be fooled by anyone!

Following someone else's method of sanity will only lead to insanity. Master's is right about his meditation technique and the need to be effortless through it. The Psycho babble hypnotic programming will only lead to repressed anger and trouble. Best to let your feelings hang out and be free.

Master's predicted the "end of the earth" at 1975. He is constantly wrong about his facts and draws conclousins without hard evidence. "Faith" will only lead you to being the pawn of a blind uncertain man who prey's on Christians like you.

HWT 2013

August 2005

Statements like "His advice leaned towards misogyny and sexism" need to be changed, I think. (Some of the claims made here may be hard to validate, due to Masters' flying so low on the radar. I've never been able to find much info on him.) Bennie Noakes 18:07, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Roy Masters Background

I think something should be mentioned of his background as a diamond cutter and gem expert. There is further biographical information on the website www.fhu.com that can be utilized here.

This "biography" is terribly inaccurate. One not need like the man to be correct in the facts. He NEVER condoned the 9-1-1 attacks... this is pure misinformation written by someone with a grudge. You say you heard it-- but it is not and has NEVER been his position. Therefore, your statement is not truthful. Could you have missed the context?

I think that if the claim cannot be backed up, it should be removed. Bennie Noakes 15:48, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

I as well happened to be turning the dial one day and coming across Masters' program in September 2001, and he was certainly praising the attacks as just punishment for American actions. I can verify the charges made by the person who wrote the article originally. I was originally familiar with Masters during his peak period of popularity in the 1970s and early 1980s and I agree he is extremely misogynistic. Trying to claim he is anything other than a misogynist is like trying to claim that the Ku Klux Klan is not racist. Prairie Dog 20:00, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)

He is clearly against the attacks on 911 and is against all terrorist acts. He loves America and what is right. He never praised Al Queda and that is in out and out lie, period.

Roy Masters is an author of 16 books, a counselor, Christian minister, mentor, philosopher, and spiritual guide. He is the founder of the Foundation for Human Understanding, a non-profit foundation. [[1]] He is the founder of a private school, Brighton Academy, Pre-K to 9th grade in Grants Pass, Oregon. [2] Larry R. Holmgren. 1-16-07.

When did his show really end?

I remember hearing him on late night radio well into the late '80s and Bob Larson interviewed him on his show around 1991. The article says it ended in the 1970's.

Masters' show was definitely heard on Radio Caroline in the mid 1980s.

"In 1960 Roy Masters started America's first conservative talk radio show on KTYM in Los Angeles, California. Roy Masters and his "Advice Line" radio program continue today as an institution on radio. "Advice Line" is currently (2007) broadcast nationwide on 130 radio stations and available via the internet." [3] 1-16-07, Larry R. Holmgren, Long Beach, CA.

Synopsis of Masters opinions and philosophy

As far as I know, Masters has never left the airwaves, and is still broadcasting as of June 10, 2005. Or, he may have been off the air temporarily after moving to Oregon. In addition to airing on over 150 stations in the United States, (Master's claim), his radio show can be heard via the internet at www.fhu.com.

The claim that he praised the attacks against the World Trade Center of 9-11-2001 is made by taking his statements out of context. Masters general opinion is that Western decadence precipitated the attacks, but he is highly critical of Al Queda and Islamo/fascism, recognizes the good intentions of many/most Muslims, and makes analogies between global terrorism, local terrorism and terrorism in the home.

Despite his lack of training in psychology, a listener who is educated in psychology and philosophy, both Eastern and Western, will note that he seems to have read a great deal on these subjects, and occasionally cites classical and modern sources.

A philosphical influence often cited by Masters, in addition to Jesus of Nazareth and Thomas Aquinas, is Roman Emperer Marcus Aurelius. Aurelius was one of the last rulers of Rome to be a more or less sober anhedonic who seemed to value the simple life. Persons familiar with the antagonistic personality of Socrates will see simiilaries in Masters.

Masters basic message is that a good life is one that is noble and anhedonic, and all pleasures, especially the base pleasures, are engaged in for the most part due to stress and anxiety and lead to further stress and anxiety in a positve feedback loop. He considers the negative emotions to be pleasures as well, such as anger, jealosy, envy, etc.

Masters considers Resentment to be a precursor emotion that is necessary for other negative emotional states to be entered. He claims this idea is consistent with the basic message of Jesus of Nazareth. Those who have studied Buddhism will see this idea as congruent with that system of thought also. He emphasizes that by learning to identify resentment and to refuse to entertain it one can enjoy a tremendous peace of mind. If one entertains resentment, he claims, then one will develope nuerosis and a predispositon to punish oneself with guilt or to project cruelty onto weaker individuals, such as one's own children.

Masters claims that resentment is a key component of the social hierarchy, and is the tool used by tyrants and other strong persons to force a pyramidical hierarchical structure onto societies, as well as the microcosm of the family. This position can be found almost identically in the works of Friedrich Nietzsche, except that Nietzsche condemned those who resented cruelty inflicted upon them by stonger individuals for different reasons. It seems that Nietzsche's opinion was that the weak should accept what is dealt them, and accept their weakness in the face of stronger persons. Thus the Nazi's favor for Nietzsche. Masters recommends foregoing resentment, but still standing up to and opposing cruelty with calmness and measured response. Masters champions Democracy, while Nietzsche riducules it as something of interest only to the weak. This author can only wonder about what would happen if Nietzsche and Masters were in the same room.

It is debatable as to whether Masters is a misogynist. He considers women to be aiders and abettors in sexual hedonsim, which as an anhedonic he must oppose. He also condems women who attempt to dominate their male spouse, while also condeming such males for allowing themselves to be dominated. There is no doubt that he prefers patriarchy. At the same time, Masters is an advocate for battered women and counsels them to leave their abuser immediately. Additionally, he suggests abused women engage in introspection for the purpose of understanding their own role in their dilemma.

A search for "Roy Masters" on the internet may turn up accusations of cultism. This is curious since Masters teaches how to recognize and avoid cult involvement. This accusation likely arises because after Masters moved his family to Oregon a large number of his radio listening audience, perhaps more than one thousand, also moved to Oregon. Masters seems to have been embarassed by this migration, and readily condemns those who idolize him as "Roy-bots". This author has heard Masters implore such persons to stop listening to his radio show and "get a life".

As an anhedonic he recommends against all recreational drug use as well as excessive alcohol consumption.

He also recommends against sex outside the confines of marriage, and within marriage he advises that sex not become a compulsion or addiction. Masters considers homosexuality to be a hedonism and as such condemns it. He has made statements that homosexuality is conditioned and not genetic.

One of Masters more interesting claims is that most people are unaware they are functioning in a state of hypnosis, and respond to various masters with hypnotic obedience. Resentment and over-indulgence in pleasure are the agents of hypnotic induction. This phenomenon gives rise to group or herd mentalities. He cites the popular movie "The Matrix" as a good representation of this idea.

The phenomenon of imaginary speech, or using language to think, is a subject matter of particular interest to Masters. Students of Zen and Buddhism will recognize this idea. In Western culture in general this distinction of consciousness is still not widely understood, although Western philosophy gradually came to this understanding throughout the first half of the 20th century, likely due to the works of Wittgenstein, Saussure, and neuroscientists.

According to Masters, no one's language based thoughts are their own, but such thoughts are the result of programmings in the cultural milieu. He recommends a psuedo-Zen like meditation to experience non-language consciouness, claiming the experience to be not only restful, but allowing one to evaluate one's own language based thoughts for their source and absurdity.

Masters has been very critical of psychiatrists for overprescribing pills to mentally ill or distraught persons, claiming that such "meds" can at best only temporarily relieve the symptoms but do not in any way treat the underlying issues. He is also critical of modern medicine in general for similar reasons. While these claims were outrageous 20 years ago, there is a good deal of research now to support them.

Persons lacking meaning in their lives, or suffering excessive anxieties, addictions, depression, or general confusion may find Masters' viewpoints helpful and insightful. Persons who are happy with their hedonism, or who do not consider regular and thoughtless involvement with pleasure to be hedonsim, will not find his message interesting in the least.

Rob Harvey, Los Angeles, June 11, 2005

Thank you for the blind apologetics. Masters is also a vicious misogynist, hard right-wing hater, and knows nothing of any scientific field he babbles about. Huw Powell (talk) 02:00, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

---

I will agree that Masters is well read, and one can detect references to poets and philosophers of the past in his discourses. Some of his concepts do reflect his reading; his views on resentment can be found in Nietzsche as well as in Hegel, Marx, Schopenhauer (who seems to have made a big impression on Masters' thought) and others. As for Nietzsche influencing Nazism, you obviously have never read Nietzsche - as Nietzsche highly condemned nationalism and anti-Semitism, I don't think the Nazis actually read him too well. Nietszche was not fond of democracy, and saw it as a weakness in American and British political culture in particular, but Masters has expressed similar views. I can also verify his statements about Iran and Khomeini - he claimed that Iran in the early 1980s was a freer country than America because the Islamic Republic denied full civil rights to women thus protecting men from influences which can result in their enslavement. I can also attest that upon the death of John Lennon, he claimed that Lennon was worse than Hitler, Stalin, or Mao and stated that Mark David Chapman should be considered a national hero.

Masters' influences, however, do not only come from great men of the past, but one can also detect a large amount of influence from L. Ron Hubbard. His emphasis on becoming clear of negative emotions solely through his own techniques, his dislike of psychiatrists and medicine (as you mention, not completely without justification as there is some real abuse), his hatred of homosexuals, his paranoia, all are quite similar to views held by Scientology. I suspect that Masters may have practiced Dianetics in the so called "Free Zone".

Interestingly, his views on language parallel those of the late French philosopher Michel Foucault, an unlikely favorite of Masters', as Foucault was an openly gay man who was certainly not "anhedonic". I wonder what getting Foucault and Masters in the same room would be like.

As for him being a misogynist, that is quite clear. His show, at least in the 1970s and 1980s, largely consisted of him humiliating women on the air and calling them names. He may have done it in his typical calm, softened Cockney voice, but he was calling them sluts, whores, predators, and the like, and seemed to get real pleasure out of it. I'd say that it's pretty safe to call him a misogynist. Prairie Dog 20:24, Aug 14, 2005 (UTC)

Roy. Just Human

Roy masters has a very important message (and an actual method to do something about it). The fact that we are being psychologically conditioned from every angle (including our own impulses) into being the foil of more dominant types (and more submissive types, who like parasites in a symbiotic relationship with a powerful predatory host who provides shelter, power, and possibly prestige, will try to induce that beastly form from out of you, Roy calls this "corruption").

This is a very important fact to know about society and the hidden, Nietzschean dynamics behind most "human" relationships, all reenforced by hypnotic suggestion brought on by our varying recreational indulgences (Ex. Rome used gluten and games to keep citizens content with Imperial decisions, which is where we get the phrase "bread and circuses" from) and doublespeak (try to find William Lutz's The New Doublespeak, about how ambiguous or ponderous language and catchy slogans can be used to mislead, confuse, or wholly order society around).

I think the problem was politics and the fact that he overestimated his own strength. Roy became slowly hypnotized by the Neo-Cons (through appealing to his early findings, projecting the relationship between dominant predators and submissive parasites onto the relationship between a government and it's people). He became convinced of the typical presentations of Socialism (Stalinist fascism) as a dictatorship that destroys good men and cultivates weak, submissive men to depend on and be lorded over by it (even though many, like Trotsky, and especially the works of Rosa Luxemburg where much against this type of government, wanting a rule by majority where the people are the state. See: [4]). I must note, it is this hatred towards necessities like welfare (which is also in the Torah, particularly concerning tiths, see [5], H’Neviim, exemplified in Isaiah, and especially in the synoptics, See:Beatitudes, coincidentally) that shows Roy to be himself brainwashed about socio-economic issues. Along the way, it has seemed that Roy Masters has also been lured by greed (read Roy Masters.com articles on welfare hypocrisy and demands for contributions), abusing his dominant role as teacher to guilt people into sending donations. One could suspect that Roy has been sent astray by ignoring the basic tenant of Christianity, being that mankind is inheritantly and often inevitably fallible. Roy, having ignored this, has bitten more then he can chew and now is stuck in a mess (pride keeps him there).

I see him as a tragic case, a man who stumbled on great truths about society and spirituality, only to be trapped by the enemy anyway. I cannot fully seperate myself from his observations, nor can I wholly agree with him on political/economic issues (especially since, if one where to use his aproach, then a new Depression would be ushered in due to low sales because people would not longer need anything. Capitalism would collapse under Roy's lifestyle), thus a tool for dominant social-darwinistic predators he claims to be against. Capitalism is just as much a dominant-submissive co-dependancy as Socialism, if not by default. This is why Lynden LaRouche attracted me (he is socially conservative and even sees the spiritual/ideological bases for human mysery, yet he recognises the nececity for welfare and social programes).

Despite his short comings, I feel indebted to him.

   Ideocentric Roybot (AKA: "Dave", AKA: [69.248.43.27])

http://www.fhu.com/Statement_of_belief_2.html An Open Letter to Churches By Roy Masters February 1992. "It is important for me to make clear that, because I was raised a Jew, I didn't come to Christ the way most Christians do—by upbringing. I realized the perfect beauty of Christianity by slow, often painful degrees (since I had to give over the faith of my fathers, Judaism). Therefore, in my personal journey to understand Christ, I often stumbled in my expression of what I was discovering. This is not a problem when a person is young and searching in the privacy of his heart. But I've been on the radio for over 30 years; I followed my path to being "born again" by trial and error in full view of the public. Thus, many "Roy Masters quotes" that are still mentioned to this day are misleading when it comes to discerning who I am and where my faith lies." Page 1, An Open Letter to Churches by Roy Masters, February 1992. Larry R. Holmgren 19:13, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

POV from article

(this would be a naive view, given that a capitalist economy relies wholly on the dependency of the consumer and the industrialist, which his philosophy seeks to end, the result of which, if successful, would lead to economic depression, nor do all forms of socialism need depend on dictators as allowed in Lennin's Democratic Centralist model. See: Rosa Luxemburg).

Ultimately, however, Roy Masters does not consider any social structure good, society itself a symptem of post-fall dependancy and resentment, and if taken to extremes, Roy Masters' world view endorses a form anarchism, with any social contact or exchange being a sign of degeneracy.

The above can be reinserted if reworded and sourced. Sam Spade 13:55, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Roy's Music Selection

Does anybody think it worth to mention his musical and film tastes. It is very apparent when listening to his show that he really likes the 80's (he has a particular fondness for Toto, Tears for Fears' Everybody Wants to Rule the World and Vangelis). He has played a U2 song ("With or without you"), and the X Files theme. He is remembered for playing an ABBA song I Have a Dream. Besides The Matrix, he also seemed to like The Edge (film) with Anthony Hopkins, The Devil's Advocate whith Al Pacino and Keanu Reeves, and the Star Wars Trilogy. 69.248.43.27 03:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Roy Masters DESPISES ALL MUSIC. He has said it over a hundred times on his program. "All Music Is Mind Control" is a statement he has made many, many times. Regardless of whether it is classical, pop or polka music, he believes that music separates you from your stream of thought and distracts you. The ONLY reason there was music for a short time was that his producers felt it would give a softer edge to his program. However, as his show was not licensed to play music by ASCAP and BMI, he had to stop playing familiar songs and go to a package of canned instrumental music for radio transitions.

Unless someone comes up with a specific reference, I would like this section to be archived from the talk page. VisitorTalk 08:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Quotes Citations

Bennie Noakes does not make the final determination as to what is a reliable source.

When a web site written by somebody: who has tape recordings of all quotes, was present when many of the quotes were made and has numerous former employees to back up every single one--it is reliable.

• Again, you're expecting me to take your word for it. How do I know that this person has "tape recordings of all quotes"? Now, if there were audio files, that might make it a much better source. As it stands, though, this is a site which is heavily biased against Mr. Masters, with very short quotes. It could easily be argued these were taken out of context.

See also Wikipedia:Verifiability#Sources_of_dubious_reliability:

Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources.

I think an angry anti-Masters site should be unacceptable as a source for the Masters article. ---Bennie Noakes 17:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

How do you take "All Women Are Whores" out of context? Is it really necessary to include the two lines that went before and the two lines that went afterwards?

Bennie Noakes is a ROYBOT (a brainwashed follower of Roy Masters' cult) who cannot handle seeing ACTUAL QUOTES made by Roy Masters featured in the article.

Roy Masters has spent 46 years making sensational and inflammatory statements so people will tune into his radio show. He does it every night.

It is not being unreasonable to include the man's own statements in an article.

Especially when there are taped copies of all of them; people who worked there when they were stated have verified them all; a man who was employed by Masters for his in-depth knowledge and ability to do extensive research has compiled them all.

• I'm sorry, but I disagree, and so does Wikipedia policy (see link above). Can you provide proof that Masters said those things? If you cannot, then they should, in fact MUST, be taken down. As I've said before, an anti-Masters site, which itself does not provide sources, shouldn't be used as a source. Please read up on the relevant Wikipedia policies. ---Bennie Noakes 03:20, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Statements Made By Roy Masters On the Radio

By publishing the quotes on a web site (www.roymasters.com), the webmaster maintains all legal qualifications required that they are genuine. They have been further validated by numerous former employees of the Masters' radio operations.

Bennie Noakes is a brainwashed Roy Masters cult follower who cannot handle seeing the truth.

• Are you saying that just because it appears on a website, that makes it true? What if I make a website that says that yours is bunk? What makes you think that I'm brainwashed, or that I follow Masters? ---Bennie Noakes 05:15, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

As a professional broadcaster and journalist, by putting up a website with quotes, I am legally mandating to the public that everything with quotes around it is true and accurate. I am very aware of libel laws. I am guaranteeing the public which can be held up in a court of law that all quotes are statements meeting combinations of the following: personally heard, have recorded, have transcribed, have been further verified by others who were present when they were broadcast.

• If you really have tape recordings of all these statements, as you say, why don't you make audio files of them? This would back up your claims, be a service to the Internet community, and be a lot more productive than wasting your time in an edit war with me. ---Bennie Noakes 17:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

We apologize for brainwashed cult follower Bennie Noakes who continues to vandalize the article by removing quotes which have been recorded, transcribed and verified by numerous former employees of the Masters operation.

Hello, I don't know if I am doing this correctly, but If Roy hates women and gays, you should just quote from many of his books, or let me hear the tape, frankly I don't beleive you.... but it is obvious to everyone that you are a hater, anyone can call names, without any evidence... I don't know who roy masters is, but if you call someone a woman hater, and gay hater, you had better show some evidence, and you haven't. 24.10.215.67 03:53, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

The above statement was written by Bennie Noakes who is trying to pretend that he is somebody else merely assessing the situation. We know because his i.p. number is exactly the same one that shows up in the most current VANDALIZING AND EDITING of the article! "I don't know who Roy Masters is" he claims here...showing you that we are dealing with a sick liar.

Hello, this is the above writer again, who does not know who roy masters is... my name is Jason Clark I live in Utah, and I don't know who you are or who Noakes is. I wrote the above not "Noakes", check the ip address. And you will see, and instead of calling others haters, and liars, maybe you should look in the mirror.

Hello, this is the above writer again, who does not know who roy masters is... my name is Jason Clark I live in Utah, and I don't know who you are or who Noakes is. I wrote the above not "Noakes", check the ip address. And you will see, and instead of calling others haters, and liars, maybe you should look in the mirror. 24.10.215.67 15:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

• This guy (apparently the webmaster for roymasters.com) delights in making unfounded accusations, such as you being me, and me being some sort of brainwashed Masters follower. It seems he likes to make stuff up, and yet he wants us to believe that everything on his website is 100% true. ---Bennie Noakes 17:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

17:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC) WIKIPEDIA wishes to apologize that a deranged user named Bennie Noakes who is a brainwashed Masters' cult follower, continues to VANDALIZE this article by removing quotes which have been recorded, transcribed and verified by former employees of the radio operation.

• Pretending to be Wikipedia administration, and then deleting comments. Wow, that's pretty low. ---Bennie Noakes 18:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Apparently it's OK for me to delete complete portions of articles because I know better than everybody else. And I must. I am a brainwashed cult follower of Roy Masters.

Why is this guy pretending to be Wikipedia authorities? Isn't this breaking the rules of Wikipedia, to claim your a wikipedia administrator when you are not? Shouldn't there be some kind of punishment by Wikipedia, to have someone claim to be the police when they are not? maybe a revoke of their ability to use the site.... Surely when someone claims authority that they don't have, in order to mislead, this is very serious.... I have no knowledge of this subject matter, I have made no edits, I just don't like the personal attacks on Roy Masters, if there is no proof. Fine, I don't care if he is or isn't a woman hater, or a man hater, or a homosexual hater, I just think, If you are going to claim this misogyny, and homophobia of someone, you had better have some proof. Roy has written hundreds of books and articles, surely if he does hate women, you can point to a book and page and quote, that makes it clear to us. Otherwise stop calling names, bringing personal attacks into wikipedia. I think it is obvious to everyone that this individual has a personal grudge against Roy Masters for some reason. Though he may have a legitimate grievance against Roy. It is not wikipedia policy to let personal feelings control the biography of someone else. Jason C.

Hi. This is Jason Clark again. I should add that I live in a small community in Utah where we practice polygamy and I personally have 20-40 wives. Let me tell you--that beats 99 virgins in heaven for performing Islamic terrorist-suicide acts anyday! Our way of life is perfectly matched with the teachings of Roy Masters, so I have a compelling need to defend my guru. Could somebody send me a few Playstations or X-boxes? These 69 kids I have are driving me crazy!

You're back, I see. Is this fun for you? I deleted all of your quotes, since, as has been noted before, they are from streaming audio and don't make good citations. Masters has written many, many books and articles. Why not quote some of those, instead of a radio show that was posted on his website months ago? You know I'm going to report you again. I should report you just for posting bogus comments under my name. Bennie Noakes 23:15, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, I don't have the patience for this. I just reverted the whole thing. If you want to add criticism, you'll have to do it with (printed) citations. Bennie Noakes 23:20, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Reverts

I have reverted this article to a previous version because the addition to article was not encyclopedic, and the edit summary bordered on breaking the policy No Personal Attacks. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information (including section 2: Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional). If you want to enter lists of quotations, put them into our sister project Wikiquote. Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are famous because they are associated with or significantly contributed to the list topic, for example Nixon's Enemies List. Wikipedia also includes reference tables and tabular information for quick reference.). User:67.150.5.117, please read the polices WP:NPA, WP:CIVILITY, WP:NPOV, WP:VERIFY, WP:NOR, and WP:AGF. Thanks, —TheJC (Talk • Contribs • Count) 19:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protection of this page

This page is currently semi-protected for 24 hours or so in order to enforce a cooling-off period on the editing.

Changes requested by new and anonymous users should be placed below this message for addition by neutral longer-standing editors.

I will now watchlist this page. After 24 hours, I plan to remove the protection. Unsourced additions to this article, especially if they go against Wikipedia policy on neutral point of view editing after this time will be reverted and the page will be subject to protection again.

If you plan to complain: please note I have not edited this article, have no knowledge of the subject matter and no interest in the subject itself. Edit wars are bad - that's my only guide.

I would request that everybody - and I mean everybody - involved in the editing of this article tries to keep to WP:1RR and edits harmoniously. Discussing edits on the the talk page before making them is A Good Thing.

Thank you all for your understanding and I apologies for the inconvenience this action will cause to new and anonymous editors. ➨ ЯEDVERS 19:46, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

If this is no longer relevant, please archive this section. VisitorTalk 08:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Citations & Editing

This article needs citations. There's just tons of claims and some references on the end, but no linkage between the two (which claim comes from which source). And no, your frothing-at-the-mouth, anti-Masters webpage cannot be considered an objective source!

Another problem is that it reads like a back-and-forth between people who hate Masters and his fans/apologists, with some damning quotations thrown in. Obviously, if you want to record every controversial thing a talk show host says, there's no limit to the size of the article. ("Wow! I can't believe he said that! It's going up on Wikipedia...")

I would like to do some aggressive editing, with the help of 67.150.* But instead of trying to hear me out (or, heaven forbid, reading policy) he childishly keeps reverting everything I do. I can't even communicate with him properly, since he refuses to register! Bennie Noakes 17:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Bennie Noakes has again VANDALIZED and REMOVED material from this article. Material which comes DIRECTLY from Roy Masters' OWN OFFICIAL WEB SITE. Can't get any more OFFICIAL then material which is CITED AND REFERENCED from the man's OWN WEB SITE in which he elaborates on his points of view and perspective. Bennie Noakes is a brainwashed Roy Masters' follower that cannot stand seeing his cult leader presented in his own words! Bennie Noakes needs to be banned from accessing this article.

Yo anon above: I will stub this article, as it contains numerous assertions of fact without any citations. Once you find direct citations from reliable sources, youmay re-add the material. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 23:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

What material are you referring to? The only stuff I removed were all those lengthy quotations you like to post. ---Bennie Noakes 18:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Who the hell are you talking to? As usual, your thinking is confused. This moron named Jossi is the one who decided that this article should now be on a Kindergarten level.

I'm replying to you, of course. My comment is below Jossi's, but has the same indent, therefore I am replying to you. (Also, you can sign your comments with four tildes ~ to identify yourself. This makes it easier for people reading this.)---Bennie Noakes 18:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm a real idiot.

Transcripts

Quoting directly from transcrtipts made by an editor or a not reputable source, fail the WP:V policy. Editors may summarize the quotes, but not cite directly in between quotes. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 23:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Article title switch to Roy Masters (commentator)

I'd like to suggest the article title be switched to Roy Masters (commentator), keeping in line with other commentator articles, such as Bill O'Reilly and Michael Savage. Erpbridge 18:40, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Psychological Insights

Roy Masters continues (in 2007) to pay to broadcast his program, "Advice Line", Monday through Friday, 10 pm to 12 midnight; in Los Angeles the two hours are a split broadcast, in reverse order, on KRLA-870AM, 11pm to 1 am. 1-15-07. I have listened to his radio program for years and have thanked him in writing for his many psychological insights. I never heard him mention Scientology. He is not a guru. He is a spiritual guide and counselor. He is not a misogynist. Women have a place in a properly ordered society and in the family and it is not being in charge. He does not hate homosexuals. He has compassion for them. Yes, at times, he is very hard on the callers. ~2004: He told a woman that she "had lost her soul in the pursuit of this man."

Despite the criticism about his capitalism and soliciting donations on air made by some writers in the above discussion, he is caught in two dilemmas: (1) how to finance the radio program five nights a week in many radio markets across our nation without commercial sponsors and (2) to limit his advice to the psychological realm while avoiding the political arena which would then risk having the IRS revoke his (FHU's) non-profit status.

Yes, I need citations. I have some by broadcast date. Others are from his books. Below are some quotes and paraphrases of some of Roy Masters' messages:

1. The Divine Order in a family: the man (the husband) looks to God and his conscience for guidance, the woman looks to the man for guidance. Your choice is to love God or play God. June 5, 2002
2. Sigmund Freud's Question: What do women want? Answer: Women want power. Question: How do they get it? Answer: By seducing men. This is why men should not have sex outside of marriage. Because, then the woman is in charge, not the man, as is the proper order. To get more sex the man becomes either a bully or a wimp. Both of these roles are hated by the woman.
3. Male-female relations: "The woman is always right, the man must always be right." (This means that the woman thinks/feels she is right but the man must have the character and integrity to be right.) If he is wrong, he must admit that he was wrong, then he is right again. The woman won't admit she was wrong. She will change the subject! The woman needs loving correction.
4. Marriage: The man must love truth and right and God more than he loves her. Otherwise he is not worthy of her love.
5. Definition of love: Love is not lust, dependence, need, ...
6. Love: There are two sides of love: to love and not hate. --- Roy Masters, 3-19-02. Love and don’t hate, else you are separated from god. When you hate you are separated from what love is. --- Roy Masters, 12-2-02, #1776. For God is love.
7. Resentment: Roy Masters posits the emotions of hate and resentment as central to many of our psychological problems, e.g., alcoholism, homosexuality, nicotine addiction, ....[The desire for an] Abortion is from hatred of the man who used them and abandoned them. --- Roy Masters, 3-20-02. Hate leads to lust. That’s why we have sex and violence. --- Roy Masters, 3-20-02. #K1451 The loser’s hatred is resentment. --- Roy Masters, 3-11-02. Resentment is the handmaiden of the ego. --- Roy Masters, 3-12-02. When you … fall to resentment, you lose your humanity. --- Roy Masters, 3-14-02. When you get upset by (the other), you lose your power. --- Roy Masters, 3-14-02. Resentment is a hypnotic emotion. Every resentment carries a message that acts through you. Roy Masters, 9-5-02. You cannot conquer injustice with anger. --- 9-25-02. You must not wallow in the resentment against injustice. –Roy Masters, 9-23-02. Your soul, responding to temptation is no longer … If you resent evil, it joins you to the evil. 'Resent not evil' is the correct translation. --- Roy Masters, 9-23-02. It’s hard to drop the anger because, in our eyes, we are made right by it. ---Roy Masters, 10-14-02. (holding on to) anger is the wrong way to be right. --- Roy Masters, …Resentment is a sin, it separates you from your creator, it puffs you up with judgment. Love of the world is hatred of God, hatred of the world is hatred of God. --- Roy Masters, 7-22-02. I hurt but I don’t hate. If you judge, the hurt doesn’t go away…. --- Roy Masters, 11-19-02. #1763.
8. Meditation: Roy Masters recommends meditation to clear one's mind and to listen to one's conscience.[6] Most of our activities are to escape from our conscience. Be silent and let your conscience catch up with you; realize that there is something wrong in the way you are living; feel the pain, and then do better. Although I have not practiced it, his description of his meditation technique is similar to the hand-levitation method of hypnotic induction.
9. Every bully is a coward. This is how Adolph Hitler was able to rule an entire society. Germany was a hierarchical society, full of bullies, where each bully was a coward to the bully above him. Thus, everyone in the whole social hierarchy could line up like bar magnets from top to bottom! In contrast, America, then, had individuals of good character and integrity.
10. He traces problems between men and women back to the archetypal first man and woman, Adam and Eve and their Original Sin. He calls Eve, the unloved woman, while Adam is the failed man. This is explained in his book, The Adam and Eve Sindrome.
11. Humans are spiritual creatures that have devolved, through sin.
12. People are hypnotized by trauma. When we are hypnotized we make excuses for ourselves that are not the real reasons for our behavior.
13. You don’t have free will. You are either a servant to what is good or you are a slave to what is wrong. --- Roy Masters, 12-15-04. You can rebel against God but you cannot rebel against the Devil. Once you are corrupted, you are changed. The Devil has you. Your corrupt friends support you in your corruption. We are "outdividuals," not individuals, when we are directed by our environment, and not by our inner character.
14. Gambling: Anyone in his right mind doesn’t gamble. The gambler is seduced into wanting what is not his. He has lost his relationship with God. --- Roy Masters, 3-12-02.
15. The righteous live by faith. --- Roy Masters, 12-2-02, #1776.
16. Animals live by instinct. We live by intuition. --- Roy Masters, 3-14-02. Animals have no consciousness of being alive. They are living machines. They are expendable. You can be kind to a cat, but don’t get your love from it. --- Roy Masters, 3-20-02
17. The spirit that created the universe is inside you. Realize it before you die. --- Roy Masters, 8-13-02.
18. God doesn't love the way you are (as some religious leaders say) but he loves you from the way you are.
19. He offers the Soviet Manual on Brainwashing [7] on his website to show how it is done and is being done in America!

To be continued, 1-15-07. Larry R. Holmgren. Larry R. Holmgren 03:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Roy's website is www.FHU.com

In February 1992 Roy Masters sent out a 5-page "Open Letter to Churches" [8] to clarify his beliefs. Larry R. Holmgren 01:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I shall make another attempt to summarize and concisely quote Roy Masters with references.

Roy Masters is blunt. His advice centers on dropping one's anger, valuing the conscious as a spiritual guide, realizing that lust is not love, and that women seduce men to gain power over them.

He offers clear distinctions. "Men want women who make them feel good instead of wanting a good woman." 3-1-07, Advice Line.

"You can rebel against God but you cannot rebel against the Devil." ---Roy Masters, Advice Line, 2-28-07. Larry R. Holmgren 12:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Roy Masters does not hate women. He has a definite view of the role of women in society that he calls the divine order, from God to man to woman. A woman needs a man she cannot control. --- Roy Masters on Advice Line, 3-12?-07.

"A woman lives by confusing you and entangling you." ---Roy Masters, Advice Line, 3-23-07.

"Anytime you get a sense of worth from a woman, you're not a man." ---Roy Masters, Advice Line, 3-26-07. Larry R. Holmgren 06:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[Men], Don't fall for the first woman who loves you, who lies to you, who lies with you. --- Roy Masters on Advice Line, 3-13-07. Larry R. Holmgren 06:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Roy Masters' views on righteousness are stated as aphorisms: "The righteous live by faith." "You don’t have free will. You are either a servant to what is good or you are a slave to what is wrong. --- Roy Masters, 12-15-04.

Roy Masters posits the emotions of hate and resentment as central to many of our psychological problems, e.g., alcoholism, homosexuality, and nicotine addiction. "If you resent evil, it joins you to the evil." "'Resent not evil' is the correct translation." "Resentment is a sin, it separates you from your creator, it puffs you up with judgment." "If you judge, the hurt doesn’t go away." "It’s hard to drop the anger because, in our eyes, we are made right by it." [Holding on to] anger is the wrong way to be right." "I hurt but I don’t hate."

Roy Masters holds firm conservative values in love and marriage. In a marriage "the man must love truth and right and God more than he loves her. Otherwise, he is not worthy of her love." "There are two sides of love: to love and not hate." "Love and don’t hate, else you are separated from God. When you hate you are separated from what love is. For God is love." "Love of the world is hatred of God, hatred of the world is hatred of God."

The Anti-Roy Masters Website

I am reviewing the website www.roymasters.com. There 52 satiric cartoons to access diatribes, satiric essays, and editorial opinion criticizing Roy Masters AKA Ruben Obermeister. Here are some facts I have gleaned from reading the writings of a former (1992) radio talk show host who was apparently fired by Roy Masters for making a sarcastic remark on air: (1) that Roy Masters kept his British citizenship until ~1984 while professing to love America. (2) that Roy Masters through TRN has promoted Michael Savage's radio talk show who the writer charges is "over the top" on free speech; TRN has syndicated the lewd, vulgar, and obscene Mancow. (3) that Roy Masters lied on an Oregon gun permit by writing "NO" to the question, "Have you ever been arrested?," which got Roy Masters arrested again! (4) that he wrote a book called "The Roy Masters Story" which gave a false autobiography. [satire?] [This title could not be found except on this man's websight. IN RE: The Oprah Show interview.] Larry R. Holmgren 16:31, 2 February 2007 (UTC) (5) that Roy spent $50,000 suing three websites: www.MichaelSavageSucks.com, www.SavageStupid.com, and www.takebackthemedia.com. (6) that Roy was a Jew and became a Goy. (7) that he founded a religious cult on Venice Blvd. Los Angeles, CA. (8) that he moved his family to Tall Timber Ranch, Grants Pass, Oregon. (9) that he interrupted and hung up on a rabbi, after telling him, "Don't preach to me." (10) Roy doesn't respect people on welfare. "There's a right way to help" people or your children. (11) that Roy manipulated and cajoled a multi-millionare, Wilhelm, to start a radio station, radio network, buy property, real estate company, and a publishing company. (12) that although he owns property, vehicles, homes, commercial property in Grants Pass, Oregon, and has secret Swiss bank accounts he begs for money on the radio. (13) that in 1976 Roy's talk show was cutoff for about 10 minutes while the management coerced him to apologize for saying that Jimmy Carter was a "smiling Hitler." (14) that Talk Radio Network (TRN)(Roy, Mark and David Masters) is an ultra-right conservative network. He also links to The Rick Ross Institute in Jersey City, NJ. http://www.rickross.com (1996-2003) whose mission is to study destructive cults, controversial groups and movements. Larry R. Holmgren 19:26, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

The website writer has a set of quotes attributed to Roy Masters that are given as persuasive wedges to have the listener/reader reject Roy Masters. He gives this quote, "All Democrats are Communists." as the ultimate reason he rejected Roy Masters. (Perhaps Roy should have said "Democrats tend to be socialistic.") Larry R. Holmgren 03:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

FHU

Can someone summarize the mission and impact of the Foundation for Human Understanding (FHU) beyond its book and newsletter publishing function and distribution of Roy's radio broadcasts and his Sunday lectures? Larry R. Holmgren 02:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

To summarize the mission of FHU from my experience as a listener from November 1976 when I first heard Roy Masters on AM radio XEG:

I ordered his free “Observation-Meditation Exercise”. Roy says that is all it should take, and you need no further instruction form him. I never became dependent on FHU. I met Roy once when I was in Los Angeles and I listened to him for his delightful commentaries. I liked his earlier lecture forum better than his talk show forum. I have not heard him for a long time now. Some people tend to get hooked on him which he said he regretted. DAB (talk) 17:03, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

http://www.fhu.com/Statement_of_belief_2.html An Open Letter to Churches By Roy Masters February 1992. Cult Leader Despite harassment by the local paper, most townspeople have realized we are just Christians and good neighbors. Grants Pass is a beautiful area. However, back in 1979 my statements played right into the hands of the local paper and a few liberal politicians who were openly antagonistic toward me and the Foundation, encouraging discrimination and boycott. They embarked on a campaign to deny the Foundation of Human Understanding tax-exempt church status. (Both the Oregon Tax Court and Supreme Court eventually vindicated us and ruled in our favor.) I know there are people who claim the FHU is a cult. I sometimes refer to the FHU's "members," the established policy of the Foundation of Human Understanding is that there are no members—people can't officially join. Because of my experience with hypnotism, I know, as you also know, that some people join churches not to get saved, but to feel saved. It is always a difficult task for a minister to challenge members of his congregation on this point, although many do. Naturally, we want people to be honest in their worship, but we also don't want to alienate them so that they stop coming and are then thrust out into a destructive environment. I don't know that there is any easy answer to this, but I choose not to have conventional membership since mine is primarily a radio counseling ministry, with the Foundation ultimately intended to be a Judeo-Christian think tank, providing books, tapes, and other information useful to those seeking Christ. We do have regular church meetings in Grants Pass, along with other meetings that vary from a Bible studies group, to men's and women's discussion groups. Page 3. http://www.fhu.com/Statement_of_belief_2.html An Open Letter to Churches, by Roy Masters, February 1992. Larry R. Holmgren 19:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I spent more than an hour adding to the article. Someone (23:00 . . (-1,270) . . 132.241.41.213 (Talk) (please use quotes sparingly and cite sources))took out 1270 characters without discussion!! I object. At least put them back into discussion so sources can be matched up. No one else was contributing to the article! Larry R. Holmgren 03:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Anonymous editor

The "new" biography threw out ~95% of the old article! It includes obscure references of social views and an inadequate bibliography. Larry R. Holmgren 08:41, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

That guy comes in here every once in awhile and replaces everything with his own article. I've tried to reason with him, but he's a real rude jerk. He's also done stuff like pretending to be an admin, and editing the discussion page to falsely attribute childish comments to those he disagrees with. (I also suspect he's the guy that runs the "anti-Roy Masters" site.) He refuses to cooperate with anybody, or properly source his material. Unfortunately, I think he has a dynamic IP, so he can't be banned. Bennie Noakes 08:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

reverted to old version. Then 3-1-07 ~7:40 AM the "new" biography returned! ~6:50 PM I found it had been reverted. An anonymous, gratuitous, slanderous remark was at the bottom of the Bibliography. I deleted it. Larry R. Holmgren 02:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The "New biography" has returned. [66.81.148.42] 3-18-07 Larry R. Holmgren 06:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I just reverted it. It's no big deal, just go into History, then click on the last "good" edit (before the vandalism), then "edit this page". It'll warn you that you're editing an old version. Then just save it. That article is old and has been completely rewritten, because of all the unsourced, or badly sourced accusations in it. Bennie Noakes 19:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe ranges of IPs can be banned, so it may be in our better interests to place the proper sequence of warning messages on the offending IPs page, if this has not yet been done. Keesiewonder ^talk 21:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I don't know how to do that yet, though. Bennie Noakes 02:51, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Where is the objective information about Roy Masters and his media empire? I did an exhaustive search on the internet and was shocked to find so little. I remember years ago when TRN was just starting, David Masters had his own show. Interestingly, he used another name. Then he had on his own father as a guest, but they pretended they didn't know each other. Also, remember when David and his wife Lisa got a divorce. Lisa broke from FHU and started speaking out against them. At some point there was a conflict with one of the brothers, Michael, and he was supposedly excommunicated. Joseph Farah and David Kupelian from World Net Daily are also supposedly close Rush disciples from the 80's. Roy's second magazine 'New Insights' (after 'The Iconoclast') used to actually be in grocery stores during a period when they were almost giving it away to hype distribution. Also, supposedly Sean Hannity's daughter is a long-time disciple of Roy's. There are so many connections and ties, yet no journalist seems to be investigating any of this and it is very hard to find out the information.

original insights on man/woman relations, intimidation, and meditation

Master's evolved his own unique insights into human relationships after years of listening to callers of his talk radio program in Houston, Texas, describe the problems they were having in their lives. His parents were Russian and Dutch Jewish immigrants to England. One day a caller brought to his attention the similarity between Master's advice and the teachings of Christ.

His description of something that had gone wrong in ancients times, that was being passed down from generation to generation by every failing father paralleled the concept of original sin in the biblical story of Adam and Eve. Contrary to blaming women, he held that all men, being human, fail their mothers, wives, and daughters in some way, which causes women to develope an overriding judgemental attitude towards the men in their lives.

His advice on how to deal with intimidation: "with merry eyes twinkling" and not reacting to the intimidator: a biblical technique called "long suffering" is guaranteed to cause any potential intimidator to "lose it."

His meditation technique of doing a simple task of letting your attention go from finger tip to finger tip is just enough of a simple task to occupy your conscious mind that you then noticed the first thought that pops into your head. At that point you have backed up one frame of reference and are now observing how your mind works, instead of being lost in a stream of your conscious thoughts.

Linda Leonard, a Jungian analyst, has written a book called: THE WOUNDED WOMAN, HEALING THE FATHER/DAUGHTER RELATIONSHIP. In the book she says that a little girl learns the qualities of home and hearth, and nuturing from her mother who is like her.

But the father, being "OTHER" than his daughter, teaches her how to relate to the opposite sex and the outside world. This is exactly what Roy's position is and it is validated by a leading feminist psychologist! Joe Reynolds 00:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

British Knighthood for Uncle

Roy said (June 20, 2007) that his uncle (for whom Roy worked for in his diamond-cutting factory) was knighted for his work in rehabilitating amputees of WWI. Could someone research this (Sir Obermeister?)? Larry R. Holmgren 06:56, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

It's irrelvant; this is a bio of Masters, not of his uncle. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 18:26, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Points to consider

Some good points to consider.

Where is there proof Mr. Masters hypnotizes listeners? Where? Can anyone describe the method in any comprehensive detail? Please include specifics. If one uses the box label of "Roy-Bot" to describe agreeing listeners then what credibility could you possibly have? Another point ..is having a disagreement with establishments anti-establishment? Who's establishment?

The man has been discussing establishments for 30+ years and has welcomed and pleaded with those of you who monitor his program to call him and offer what you will. He's not counter establishment but he is counter-programming. For years cultural Christians have tried to cause trouble for these people with cowardly disapproval. Pick up the phone and call him and tell the country on the air what a fake he is. I have listened to him for years. What would make me hypnotized but not you analytical nay sayers listeners with baseless and fearful accusations? All the useful idiots?

I have some good points to make but I encourage anyone to listen to what The Foundation has to say without fear and make your own acertation. Mr. Masters not only does not use marxist pavlonian conditioning on listeners, he would be glad to discuss it with any one of you and explain EXACTLY how it works.

Another point then. How would he show you the mechanisms by which you're conditioned in society, how hypnotic cultural establishments can be, explain it in such detail, yet be doing just that to anyone? How feeble minded would people have to be? It's similar to saying the criminology teacher making you into a criminal isn't it ..how often does that occur? Are these scare tactics by people who won't accept a change for the better?

As for stealing money or manipulating for it ...he spends money to republish out of print materials that he often can't even give away. Big operations take money. If there's anything i get tired of hearing him say is " ..if you can't afford it I'll give it to you." Many of the F.H.U. materials are free to download in entirety.

Mr. Masters teaches what some call a self observation. This conflicts with no religion or any real science. Being aware does not settle well with everyone. Show yourself ..what your establishment is like and how it can be improved.

I will not comment on the culture Christian views in regard to Christianity as a religion. That's the debate I think the editors would like to avoid most. I hope the Wikipedia editors will allow this comment to stay posted. Anyone with questions should ask the man himself or any of his sons. The angry retorts here are just that - angry people.

I don't agree with the Wiki write up entirely but thank you for the link to the F.H.U. website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Observation Smith (talk • contribs) 06:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Physics section

When writing his book Finding God in Physics, Masters, by his own public admission, did not first read anything on the topic because he "wanted to do something new". This is consistent with his often priding himself on his lack of any formal education, stating that he doesn't require one because he has "common sense". It can be easily argued that Masters' ideas in physics are unfounded. For example, in his book he cites that since light slows down in a solid (e.g., a prism) and accelerates upon its exit, that something must be returning the photons to their original speed. However, light doesn't actually slow down in a solid. The photons repeatedly collide with the electronic bonds which in turn absorb and then re-emit the photons in their original direction of propagation. Since this takes a finite amount of time, the net speed of the photons is slower, but they do not decelerate.

Separately, he states "When a sufficient core of any mass becomes solid due to the pressure of gravity, atoms align, producing the almost perfect magnetic field. Collectively, en masse, the aligned atoms then tend to spin all in the same general direction, causing the whole body to rotate, thus producing an electric field as it moves through the ether.

If it were possible to stop the earth and then leave it "still" in space, the earth would once again start rotating. It would, however, be rotating by a power derived from its gravity-induced core alignment, which makes the earth a perpetual-motion generator."

If this were the case it could be asked, 'Why don't all suspended solid objects spin on their own?'.

The reason planets spin is because they can only form from matter in space that in a state of high angular momentum (whirling about). The rotation is the conservation of that angular momentum.

I removed this material because it's unsourced, because it states opinions as facts, and because it engages in original research. Any discussion we have of the subject's views on physics (or any other topic) should be based idrectly on reliable sources and not on our own opinions or deductions.   Will Beback  talk  20:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Sad, really, since it reflects what he thinks, and how divorced from knowledge and reality it is. I have to say about this article, and I rarely descend to this level on WP, "nice fan site". Very little is cited. Huw Powell (talk) 01:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

And I just listened to him say everything in the above removed text on his radio again. I guess we can't cite his radio show to simply quote what he says, and leave out the last two short paragraphs of analysis? Huw Powell (talk) 02:49, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

America's first conservative talk-radio show

Is there a reliable reference showing that his was actually the first?--Ntatorntator (talk) 12:16, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Good question. Only on FHU.com have I seen the statement. It may be more accurate that he was the first call-in radio show. I seem to recall a reporter saying that in a television report, but I'll have to review the archives. Mrtea (talk) 22:18, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

According to my fallible impressions & memory: Back in the 1960's and 1970's, talk radio was dominated by very liberal & hateful talk show hosts. They had electronic devices that let them interrupt callers, bully, & dominate the conversation. These libs were nasty & would do things like interrupt, contradict, call the caller a jerk, & hang up on him. Then out of the blue, Bruce Williams appeared, a friendly voice who gave practical advice on business and neighborhood disputes -- just a helper role. Then soon Rush Limberger Cheese appeared, a conservative (though not biblicist), a man who was polite to almost all, carrying callers over commercial breaks. After him generally speaking, polite conservatives have dominated radio talk show. (EnochBethany (talk) 02:22, 8 June 2013 (UTC))

The first reference, which is used to cite his birth name for some odd reason, is now at http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19990205/NEWS/302059973&cid=sitesearch and is titled "Former in-law accuses Masters of violence". I realize that BLP policy requires high quality refs if they say something bad about a person, but no mention of this controversy in the article at all? Huw Powell (talk) 22:37, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Controversy section

I removed the following section because the second sentence states what happened but there is no controversy discussed. Are there reliable sources that discuss the controversy? The first sentence is one-sided (albeit from Maters' perspective) but all it says is that he feels the media was mean toward him. I suppose it could be put back in but I think it is not noteworthy right now without more detail or another source with more explanation.

==Controversy==

In a 1992 open letter, he said he was a former Jew who founded a ministry that some unfairly viewed as New Age because of "often mean-spirited media coverage."

Some of Masters' enthusiasts relocated to southern Oregon in the 1980s, after Masters and the Foundation moved there. Masters had encouraged listeners of his radio show to relocate out of large cities to escape what he said was the inevitable collapse of a sick society.

Signed Mrtea (talk) 23:42, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Poor (dated or potentially biased) source

Currently in the article the following book is referenced: Bob Larson, Larson's Book of World Religions and Alternative Spirituality, pp. 203-206, Tyndale House Publishers, 2004, ISBN 0-8423-6417-X. The book can be found in Google Books. In reading its information about Masters, I've found that it alleges claims by Masters that have been refuted by him personally.

For example, the book claims the following:

Roy Masters believes he's a sinless, perfected being appointed to save America and the world (page 205).

But according to Masters' statement of faith, the following is true (I've added the emphasis to get to the relevant detail):

The absurd "I am without sin" quote attributed to me, and repeated endlessly by the media, to the best of my knowledge originally came from US magazine. As you can imagine, trying to describe the process of being "born again" to the average reporter is truly a dangerous prospect, especially if one's reputation will depend on that reporter's understanding of Christian mystery. I was so outraged by the seemingly intentional betrayal in that story that I sued US magazine. My case was so strong that the famous trial lawyer Melvin Belli took it on contingency. US magazine eventually paid me in an out-of-court settlement. But the damage that one article did to the Foundation of Human Understanding has been incalculable, because many Christians have believed it, and some have quoted it to others, who, however well-intentioned, spread this untruth to still others. Of course, only Jesus is without sin. To say otherwise is to deny the whole purpose of His coming into a sinful world in need of redemption. Thus, the Bible states that anyone who says he's without sin is a liar. I believe in the process of being born again, as described in the Gospel of John and in Romans Chapter 6. I believe that when the process is complete, one does not practice sin, but is a "slave of righteousness." If I succeed in being a slave of righteousness, I do so only by Grace, for I could not achieve victory over sin by myself. Christ did it for me, and does it still—every day. http://fhu.com/statement-of-belief4.html

This leads me to call this book out as a poor source of information. The book was published in 2004, but the statement of faith was published in 1992. So it was published indicating that Masters claims one thing, whereas in reality, Masters had been refuting that for 12 years. Considering Wikipedia:BLP, I contend that the source ought not to be used for this article. Mrtea (talk) 08:02, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Can anyone find sources for these claims?

Moved these potentially contentious sentences here for now:

As a child, Masters originally planned to go to medical school, but after his father's death of a heart attack in 1940, the family could only afford to send his elder brother to college. Instead, Masters went to Brighton, England to apprentice as a diamond cutter in his uncle's factory. At 18, he served a term in the Royal Sussex Regiment of the British Army.

In 1948, Masters traveled to South Africa to pursue the diamond profession. During his time in South Africa, he became more "interested in the power of suggestion and the way the mind influences bodily functions." He briefly studied methods of African witch doctors outside Johannesburg.

--Mrtea (talk) 09:12, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Further Reading from article

I'm moving these recommendations from the article. The further reading section must contain neutral POV articles or be balanced, and these works are mostly dated and were written during a time of controversy.

• James R. Lewis, ed. The Encyclopedia of Cults, Sects, and New Religions (Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Books, 2nd ed., 2001). ISBN 978-1-57392-888-5 "The Foundation for Human Understanding," pp. 340–341 (cite references WRONG ORGANIZATION, it should be: "The Foundation of Human Understanding")
• Walter Martin (et al.), The New Cults (Santa Ana, CA: Vision House, 1980), "Roy Masters: Foundation of Human Understanding," pp. 297–319
• Lauren Kessler, "Roy Masters: I Can Do No Wrong", Northwest Magazine, September 4, 1983, pp. 5–10

--Mrtea (talk) 02:44, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Roy Masters (commentator)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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After reading Wikipeida's Roy Masters page and the following coments I have one point to make. I have found many comments Roy Masters has made very informing and helpful ..At 18 , 12 years ago I believe his gidance helped me from commiting suicide. However no matter what anyone says I know each person must think for themselves. I don't think Roy is always right nor is anyone. He helped me though. peace j.g. == Assessment comments == Some sort of infobox and photo would certainly be appropriate. Content regarding the subject's biographical info, like specific details regarding academic background, and employers would be useful. So would specific references for same. I would think many more links to other pages would be useful. Introductiory paragraph could be worked on, maybe giving some deetails regarding the three things mentioned in the opening sentence. "Made a test case for the non-medical use of hypnosis" is unreferenced, and outcome of trial is not mentioned. Writing style in general often falls short of encyclopedic standard. Sections would be advisable, as would the elimination of single-sentence paragraphs. John Carter 16:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC) John, please review my rewrite of the article and let me know what you think. VisitorTalk 06:53, 13 August 2007 (UTC) 06:53, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 06:53, 13 August 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 15:43, 1 May 2016 (UTC)