Talk:Roman Catholic dioceses in Great Britain

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Whether to delete this list[edit]

"turn into dab page ... this page just duplicates previous pages, and carries the misleading implication that anything called "Great Britain" has a legal existence)"

No it doesn't. It's now restored. Don't do this again. Benkenobi18 (talk) 02:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ooh, again. Nice try. You are going to have to come up with a better reason to delete content. Benkenobi18 (talk) 08:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Three for three. Great vandalism here. Benkenobi18 (talk) 08:55, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, a disambig page is an insult. Nominate this page for deletion instead. Benkenobi18 (talk) 11:58, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The content is not deleted, but resides more naturally at a lower level as I've tried to explain. David Underdown (talk) 12:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, it doesn't. There is absolutely no need to delete this list. It's for the GB category which you said you agreed should exist. You are just doing disambig as an end run around a deletion discussion. You know what I'm nominating this page for deletion just to protect myself. Benkenobi18 (talk) 12:03, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deacon[edit]

This is ridiculous. Please discuss your reversions. Benkenobi18 (talk) 02:28, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How is this a POV fork? This is just another way of categorising the information. Do you consider List of Roman Catholic dioceses in Balkanic Europe a POV fork?.
Maybe this makes it more clear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Roman_Catholic_dioceses_in_Europe

As you see you have "Roman Catholic dioceses in Austria", etc, by the national level. The national level is "Roman Catholic dioceses in Great Britain". As you can see, there are lists for EVERY national level cat below the super cat Roman Catholic dioceses in Europe. Every single one.

There are two exceptions to this rule. The Category: Roman Catholic dioceses in Balkanic Europe, which has the same structure we see in the Great Britain one. It contains all the dioceses in the former Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia et al. The second exception is "Roman Catholic Dioceses in the Holy Roman Empire". The reason for this one, is this is a place for all the defunct dioceses and some that are still present, that reside in the HRE. It's a method of categorising the links between the prince-bishoprics and the dioceses.

List of Roman Catholic dioceses in Great Britain is no more POV then the List of Roman Catholic dioceses in Germany. If anything, the fact that Great Britain should not have a list is an insertation of POV. It is very POV to state that "Great Britain does not exist", etc. I am not tied to the name, I don't care if it's Roman Catholic dioceses in the United Kingdom, or Roman Catholic dioceses in Great Britain, but there needs to be a national list, period. Otherwise it is POV to treat the UK differently from any other nation. Benkenobi18 (talk) 02:17, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion moved from User talk:Anthony Appleyard#Request for admin assistance with Roman Catholic diocese articles[edit]

I moved this discussion to here from User talk:Anthony Appleyard#Request for admin assistance with Roman Catholic diocese articles because it had changed track from a (request to me) to general discussion. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I'm trying to tell you that the content wasn't forked. By your definition of a content fork, List of Roman Catholic dioceses in Europe is a content fork because it brings together all the other lists. The problem with this approach, (I don't like it at all), is because it makes a hash out of the dioceses. I've just spent two hours going over the counties in Northern Ireland to determine which dioceses straddle the line, and now they have two categories.
The other problem is that two dioceses now have to be taken out of the Roman Catholic dioceses of Ireland, and there has been no consensus to do this at all because the Irish editors much prefer to have all the dioceses on their Irish diocese list. In order to be consistant with this new split and category, they have to be taken off both the list and the template. We dealt with this problem six months ago, and we had no consensus to make any changes because all the other options were seen as inferior. Deacon has overrode the consensus by reverting the list. You can see the discussion on the Category:Roman Catholic dioceses in Great Britain.
Redirects are a no go because each episcopal territory has a list. In most cases, these match national boundaries, but this is one and perhaps one of the more notable exceptions where it does not.

Benkenobi18 (talk) 05:41, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I've repeatedly pointed out to Ben, Great Britain doesn't exist either as a political state or a national subdivision in the Roman Catholic Church. There is 1) Ireland 2) Scotland and 3) England and Wales in the Catholic Church and 1) Ireland and 2) United Kingdom in the UN world. Creating a further article was Great Britain on top of the Sc & Eng and Wales articles, and then hiding the most important ones is newly created super-cats is totally pointless. There doesn't need to be any problem except Ben insists on creating and enforcing articles which bring anarchic and misleading and pointless duplicate list articles. I've had long discussions with this user before, and before he wore me out with his tendentiousness and his slimy slanderings of me across wikipedia, I had created more than a dozen arrticles to accomodate his desire to name all diocese articles "Roman Catholic diocese of x". Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Move[edit]

  • One last step. You'll need to move "Category:Roman Catholic dioceses in Great Britain -> Roman Catholic dioceses in the United Kingdom". I've created an entirely new template.

to deal with the two dioceses that are neither in England, nor in Ireland. I've added the template to all dioceses in Northern Ireland, and removed the two from the Irish list. Benkenobi18 (talk) 06:21, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All this I've already said to you, Ben, but I'll repeat myself once more. There are list pages for Scotland and for England and Wales and for (the island of) Ireland, which corresponds to how the RCC is organized. This isn't my fault and is something you will just have to deal with. They were here on wiki moreover long before you showed up and decided you wanted to change things. There's no need to create arbitrary geographically-based duplicate lists either. I have no problem with a UN-based list supplementing it, though the point of having these is pretty lost on me. For categories, I have no problem using the UK (not GB) as a supplemental category on Northern Irish, English and Scottish Catholic matters, though not as a super category as this conflates two different systems without making it obvious that it does so. Dioceses and churches which are both in Catholic nation of Ireland and in the United Kingdom can have both categories, obviously, though not an square-inch of Ireland is in "Great Britain". Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 02:04, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into List of Catholic Dioceses of Great Britain[edit]

Hello Benkenobi18, as there is another article, with more extensive content on the Roman Catholic Dioceses in Great Britain (List of Catholic dioceses in Great Britain), could we merge this one into that one? Cheers, Pjposullivan (talk) 15:55, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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