Talk:Rivington Pike

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Images[edit]

There are too many similar images in this article, will somebody please remove some of them.--J3Mrs (talk) 11:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are at present four, the first shows the hill, the second is a modern photograph of the Pike Tower followed by two earlier photographs both showing the Pike Tower at different times. One image I see was removed was a recent view of the Pike Tower however that did clearly show the level of errosion on the hill today, a subject the article has yet to touch upon along with Geology. This errosion has revealed some ancient flints, as noted by Dave Lane. Please discuss here. (Pennine rambler (talk) 14:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC))[reply]
The article is about the Pike, not just the tower and the pictures are very similar. I removed one and rearranged them to improve the layout. Three is plenty. If you want erosion exchange it for one of the others.--J3Mrs (talk) 16:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I agree about the layout it does look better, my mention of the one removed was in fact in connection with the erosion on the hill, a subject that could go in geology later I was trying to explain to you why it was there in the first place. The change in appearance of the tower itself over time is of public interest, I do agree there only needs be one photo of the hill and one modern photo of the tower, retaining the two older photographs. Whichever modern photo is used it can be compared to the Edwardian one showing the different ground level, currently estimated to be around 3ft different. Is the geology in your field?

(Pennine rambler (talk) 18:29, 2 June 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

Name[edit]

The openning section reads better as:

Rivington Pike is a hill summit and part of the West Pennine Moors, named in connection with the nearby village of Rivington whose boundary stretches toward Winter Hill in Lancashire. The nearest towns are Chorley and Horwich. The 'Pike' as it is locally known is a prominent local landmark. The name Rivington derives from the Old English hreof plus ing and tun meaning farmstead at the rough or rugged hill.[1] the name evolved to 'Roving' [2] or 'Riven' both meaning to wonder with '-ton' [3] The alias name is reflected in the Patent for the Church and School in 1566.[4] The name settled to Rivington early in the 19th century. Pike derives from the Old English pic, a pointed eminence.[5] This used many citation and the explanation of the name Rivington without the above otherwise makes no sense.

If there is to be an explanation of the name of Rivington in the article, otherwise it could just explain the meaning of the Pike and leave out the explanation of the name of Rivington which may be better left in the Rivington article where it could be kept as above. I had not put back in the explanation naming Ruhwinton, [6] or cite mamchestre pg 36. Please discuss here. (Pennine rambler (talk) 14:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC))[reply]

It's the earliest name "hreof plus ing and tun" that gives the meaning NOT what it might have evolved to or how it was spelt in medieval documents, or what the school was called or how many National Archives records you can find before spelling was standardised. In my dictionary "riven" means split or torn, "roving" to wander NOT wonder. Hundred year old books can be wrong. I simply do not understand why you continue to push this odd point of view in both this and the Rivington article.--J3Mrs (talk) 15:40, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There is a note in the book Mamcestre and the Record society (William Farrer) about this re: Roynton not Rivington. Many authors have stated "Rowenton" as the earliest name for Rivington, the settlement of the mountain ash and there is a book by that title published within my lifetime, others are the Victoria County History, Hampson and Irvine. The site bolton.org.uk/rivington.html also notes this. The only way to set the record straight would be by original research, by getting a copy of orignal entry form the archive. It is safer to let the reader decide. Its modern name does derive from the two main variations of Riven or Roving, this is established and locally accepted and anyone reading the article can easily see how it changed to Rivington.

(Pennine rambler (talk) 19:00, 2 June 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

Wikipedia does not accept original research, it requires reliable verifiable sources like Mills (which many editors and readers can access online with a library card). Mills is used in many settlement articles. Loads of places have a string of alternative spellings, look at Worsley (I didn't write it) there are lots of them all from the VCH which by the way doesn't give a meaning for the name. You claimed it meant "wonder", this is the first mention I've seen you make for Rowan on this page. Will you please remove mention of the church and school, it is confusing and unnecessary. Your website mirrors information on this site. Some of the Pike page incorporates text from edits I've made and it lists Mills as a reference. As such it should not be used to reference Wikipedia. I will change the reference for Pike to a proper citation and put the book in the bibliography later. It might be more acceptable to say Rivington derives from a rough and rugged hillside, or a place where rowans or mountain ash grew, but only with a verifiable reference, ie a published book with page number (ie verifiable source) and leave out all the National Archives stuff, they only record the name.--J3Mrs (talk) 19:37, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
reference for Pike to a proper citation .. Rivington derives from a rough and rugged hillside, or a place where rowans or mountain ash grew. Looks good go ahead. On the mater of Riven and Roving they are both in the books cited in the text here. My site as I said does not mirrow wikipedia it predates this article the basis of the articles are from my site hence I released creative commons attribution, my site has been updated with information since, its archives remain. Do not remove the creative commons attributation. (Pennine rambler (talk) 20:53, 2 June 2010 (UTC)).[reply]
I have changed it as I suggested with a reference to bolton.org. I suggest you do the same to Rivington. I offered to help you elsewhere, my only motive is in producing good quality articles. I can help you improve the Rivington article but I know you wouldn't like what needs to be done.--J3Mrs (talk) 20:29, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I do agree that the main Rivington article needs restructuring, just concerned about loss of citations and details. Bye the way wasnt there a citation on the Easter festivals here to Hampson? My only concern is that a major overall does not loose the detail of the descent of the Manor, maybe that could be seperated off to another article. Best to discuss that at its talk page.

References

  1. ^ Mills 1998, p. 288
  2. ^ |National Archives
  3. ^ [History of Rivington, Thomas Hampson, 1893, pg 9]
  4. ^ [Pilkington Family of lancashire 1066 - 1600, Col Pilkington 3rd Ed. 1904]
  5. ^ [handbook of Lancashire Place Names]
  6. ^ [Liber feodorum (Testa De Nevil) mem 5]

Winter Hill & Other areas[edit]

There is a lot in this article not about the Pike, it especialy has a lot in it about Winter Hill, that should be in the other article. It contains lots of outdated info and a lot off subject. --Pennine rambler (talk) 08:23, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Untrue, there is some context but the article is pretty focussed, only the festivals lacks a ref and the rest is referenced. The pike is of course part of Winter hill so there is bound to be an amount of overlap.--J3Mrs (talk) 09:01, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As per talk above have edited intro to reflect the above statement. I still think its history needs to be in one section, there are current events in the same section as past ones (Racing up there today would lead to prosecution). --Pennine rambler (talk) 11:19, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And I have made it less awkward. The history is in one section but you introduced a recent event which is now history albeit recent history.--J3Mrs (talk) 11:31, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am glad we agree, my edits are in good faith, please don't make statements they are not (my talk page), we seem to have reached a consensus on this edit, maybe we can again on other articles where you and I edit. I am aiming to improve and shorten some of the articles I created, hence my recent edits. --Pennine rambler (talk) 11:44, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The information was already there! I just copyedited your awkward English. Another editor appears to have improved since. You are removing sourced info added by other editors not just what you added, remember pov--J3Mrs (talk) 13:03, 13 May 2011 (UTC).[reply]

History[edit]

This should read as current:

It was held at the highest part of Georges Lane, close to the summit. The fair attracted people from Horwich, Chorley and further afield.[1]

This is part of history:

During the 1830s there was an increase in drunken and riotous behaviour following the fair, which brought prompt and stern measures from the local authorities. Two men from Bolton were charged with "Neglect of Divine Service", by selling on Rivington Pike on a Sunday.[2] The arrival of the Manchester and Bolton Railway's extension to Preston and opening of Blackrod railway station in 1841 brought more visitors which was sustained until the introduction of seaside excursions in about 1860, which led to decline in visitors.

In the early 20th century, car and motorcycle races were held up Rivington Pike. From 1906 to 1912, Bolton motorists witnessed the performance of cars and motor-cycles in the hands of some notable drivers of the day on the private roads of the Rivington estate. Under the auspices of the North-East Lancs Automobile Club and the Lancashire Motor-Cycle Club, the first of these hill-climb races took place on 25 July 1906. Competitors were limited to members of the club, and the race was divided into 10 classes according to the list price of the car.[3] In 2011, 4x4 cars caused significant criminal damage to the in the Chinese gardens and around the pike.[4]

Music festivals and North Country fairs were held in the Chinese Gardens on the slope of the pike in the summers of 1976 and 1977 and locally named "flower power invasions".[5] Bands included Body, John Peel favourites Tractor, The Damned and Here and Now. The 1976 Rivington Pike Music Festival inspired a group of Rochdale people to launch the Deeply Vale Festivals in mid September 1976.

Maybe a sub heading would solve that?

--Pennine rambler (talk) 11:50, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

too short for a sub section, best left--J3Mrs (talk) 13:00, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ [Rivington, Thomas Hampson, 1893]
  2. ^ [Rivington - Thomas Hampson, 1983]
  3. ^ Races to the top of Rivington Pike, thisislancashire.co.uk, retrieved 2010-05-24
  4. ^ Chris Gee (4th March 2011). "4x4 rampage damages Rivington beauty spot". Lancashire Telegraph. Retrieved May 13, 2011. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  5. ^ Smith 1989, p. ??

Who owns it?[edit]

Is the hill or private or public lands? Should add that to article. --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 16:45, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The land is owned by Liverpool Corporation's successor, United Utilities. Added. J3Mrs (talk) 12:33, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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