Talk:Rhythm game accessories

Controller compatibility

With regards to the Scorehero wiki being an "unreliable" source, the data found there was determined by a combination of testing and inspecting the PS2 game files. The fact remains that I and others have connected 360 peripherals to a PS2 and used them with the newer GH games, and others have done so with PS3 peripherals as well. Also, why'd you remove the support for the PS2 Kramer from RB and RB2? All PS2-controller-port guitars work on all PS2 games across both series, and to say that the Kramer does not work with RB/RB2 is just false information, something which I don't think Wikipedia likes to put forth. I will be putting "yes" back into those two columns but will leave the wiki ref removed until further discussion. LocalH (talk) 15:25, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Also, there should be some mention of the extra compatibility that was added starting with GH:Aerosmith on the PS2. I just checked the USB driver on my copy of GH5 (which I don't see as being original research, since anybody with a copy of the game can verify). IOP/BCUI.IRX contains the following strings:

PS3 GH3 Guitar PS3 Rockband Guitar PS3 Rockband Drums 360 Rockband Guitar 360 Rockband Drums 360 USB Gamepad 360 GH2 Guitar PS2 USB Adapter PS3 GH4 Drums

I also checked my copy of GH:World Tour, and the only thing not listed there is 360 USB Gamepad. GH:Aerosmith's BCUI.IRX file contains support for PS3 GH and RB guitars as well as 360 GH and RB guitars. If needed, I'll go through and check my copies of GH:Metallica, GH:Van Halen, and GH: Smash Hits to confirm their support, so that someone else can add the info (or if it's fine for me to do so, since as I said this isn't really "original research" but just "look inside the USB driver", which anybody can verify. LocalH (talk) 15:34, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

The methods purportedly used by ScoreHero are irrelevant - it is a Wiki and thus cannot be trusted to be even following its own methods, let alone being accurate. It seems reasonable to me that the Kramer would be compatible with the other games just as the X-Plorer, Les Paul and SGs are. The reason I reverted it was because it contradicted one of the existing (reliable) sources (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2008/11/official-guitar/). If however it can be verified using the game itself it is possible to cite the game directly using {{Cite video game}}, and as you say that wouldn't be original research. It is a primary source though, so a reliable secondary source would be preferable. I have no way of checking this myself (all my Guitar Hero/Rock Band games are PS3 versions), and I surprises me that the 360 controllers work, but if it can be verified that's fine. Incidentally, if 360 controllers do work on the PS2 version, it may be worth a mention elsewhere (maybe in a note similar to how I've done the "PopSong Guitar" source disclaimer). Alphathon /'æɫfə.θɒn/ ^(talk) 17:33, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and if PS2 GHIII and GH:A compatibility differs feel free to split them up; I on;y put them together because I thought they were the same in that respect. Alphathon /'æɫfə.θɒn/ ^(talk) 17:42, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I do understand the issue with using the Scorehero wiki as a source (I disagree with the Wikipedia policies on such things, but that's not a discussion that should be done here anyway). I'm also unsure on the cross-compatibility, if any, between the 360 and PS3 game code (logically, I would not expect there to be cross compatibility, but as my Guitar Hero/Rock Band games are PS2 versions, I have no direct reference, nor any way to personally verify without violating the law. As far as I know, the only real difference between PS2 GH3 and PS2 GH:A are that support was added for the Rock Band Stratocaster (which, as you may know, is the same hardware between PS2 and PS3) and for the 360 versions of such controllers that were out at the time. I can't imagine that the newer 360 GH or RB guitars wouldn't work with it, as they also work on the older 360 GH games, so they must identify the same to the system (especially since they work on GH2 which was never patched to add controller compatibility that I'm aware of). Understandably, there was no official statement or release that ever mentions this cross-compatibility on the PS2, as I believe that if they had publically announced their intentions to do so, Sony may have required them to remove such support. I will say that I have personally used my 360 Rock Band drum kit with all of the full-band GH games without incident (the only non-intuitive thing is that the guide button continues to blink as if it hasn't synced, but it apparently doesn't need to as it still works, and I think this would only be an issue for wired controllers, as the wireless controllers would have to be connected with the Wireless Gaming Receiver, which I would guess would sync to the controller before it could be used).

As far as official compatibility charts, I think that link you posted here was outdated, as the link from that page to the source was down and I had to dig a little bit to find any information on Activision's site. As well, I have found the official Rock Band compatibility guide, and it confirms some of what I've written, so it would definitely be a primary source, being the website of the game developer. Here's the links:

Activision compatibility page (admittely, not much information here) (http://support.activision.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/Instrument---compatibility/?q=guitar+hero+compatibility&l=en_US&c=Game_Title%3AAll&fs=Search&pn=1)

Harmonix compatibility page (much more detailed but still a few inaccuracies, but it's a starting point - click "Instruments" and you can see compatibility for various controllers easily, although they lump 360 and PS3 together for controllers that exist for both systems) (http://www.rockband.com/compatibility)

The inaccuracy that I can see right off the top is that they claim the Stratocaster is not compatible with PS2 GH:A, and I personally know that it does work as I used to use my old Strat with GH:A before it broke. According to their page, the 360 Xplorer apparently also works with PS2 Rock Band games, which I actually was not aware of and would have to check further to see if that's the case. I might just contact Harmonix on this, as I think it may not be accurate (they also report that the Xplorer works with GH2/GH3 PS2, which is most definitely not the case, neither game support any USB controllers whatsoever).LocalH (talk) 20:06, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh it absolutely is outdated; however, since the PS2 doesn't have the capacity for game patching there's no chance that it became compatible at a later date (that of course doesn't preclude the possibility that the list was wrong but later corrected). I'm aware of the Harmonix list - its one of the sources cited above the compatibility table. It's also worth noting that the neither the SGs or the Kramer are even mentioned on the list, so they may well have lumped them under X-plorer/Les Paul (respectively).

With regard to the other consoles, I know from experience that the X-plorer doesn't work with any of the PS3 games (GH or RB). I have a feeling that the USB support on the 360 and PS3 is done via the consoles' native interfaces/APIs (and probably have to be done that way - on the PS3 at least some USB controllers have been blocked for anti-piracy reasons, which wouldn't work if a game could do it itself), while the PS2 probably doesn't have one (hence the specific driver). That said, the discrepancy may also be because the later PS2 games were made by Bubcat not Neversoft.

Alphathon /'æɫfə.θɒn/ ^(talk) 21:22, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree on the lumping together of controllers, and it may very well be why the Xplorer appears to be listed as compatible with GH2 PS2. Also, to digress just a bit, I'll clarify that the PS2 has no capacity for official game patching. I think you may be right about Budcat - GH3 has no USB driver at all, neither the base Sony library nor any specific one, whereas GH:A (which was the first Budcat GH game) has both, and as mentioned before, the driver is named BCUI.IRX.

The only official PS2 standard for controllers concerns standard PS2 DualShock2 controllers (and other official products like the EyeToy, which uses a Sony-provided library). Even the guitars that connect to the controller ports are sort of "overlayed" onto the standard DualShock2 (hence why GH2 was able to lock out early third-party guitars as they didn't act exactly like an SG, they were essentially PS1 DualShock controllers in a guitar case with the left dpad input shorted, which was sufficient for GH1).

Would it help, as a source, to do some testing across all the full-band GH games with my 360 drum kit and make some videos? I don't have a way to connect a 360 wireless guitar as of right now, and no PS3 gear at all, but if it helps make the table a little more accurate then I'll do so when I can get the chance. Or would the presence of those strings in the game binary be sufficient to use {{Cite video game}}? They wouldn't be listed at all if the driver wasn't designed to recognize them as such. LocalH (talk) 22:16, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm honestly not sure about the testing, this sort of thing is a bit of a grey area. The question is where is the line between citing a game and researching the game's capabilities?

Oh, and with regard to "official" game patching, unless something is supported natively by the game (rather than via an unofficial patch, which would presumably also mean using a modded console) it shouldn't really be considered compatible or whatever.

Alphathon /'æɫfə.θɒn/ ^(talk) 22:33, 20 May 2012 (UTC)