Talk:R. W. Ketton-Cremer

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Homosexuality[edit]

The claim that he was a homosexual appears to be based solely on gossip in the village, it has even been suggested that it could have been malicious gossip. His family dispute it and there do not appear to be any independent sources who have confirmed it.

The article should avoid making absolute statements about it and respect the wishes of his family unlike the National Trust. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C3:6912:D100:84EE:8AA4:6F8:CA43 (talk) 19:15, 11 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We have multiple sources saying he was gay: The Telegraph say "Although close friends were aware that Mr Wyndham Ketton-Cremer was gay, he did not choose to publicly disclose his sexual orientation". Pink News call him a "gay nobleman" and say "Fry’s powerful short film, The Unfinished Portrait, explains that although many records and accounts acknowledged the scholar’s homosexuality, it was airbrushed out of history". Fry himself is quoted as saying "Official accounts of Robert’s life tend to offer only a partial story, and neglect to incorporate what was widely accepted by those who knew him. The truth is, when researching Robert’s life, we find many accounts that openly acknowledge his homosexuality." As I understand it, his relatives have objected to his "outing" rather than the fact of his homosexuality. Given the publicity the matter has had, the fact of his homosexuality can't be excluded from the article. Philafrenzy (talk) 20:31, 11 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a source that says his sexuality was ambiguous. This needs to be looked at more carefully Wikipedia doesnt trade in gossip. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/12/is-outing-people-remit-of-national-trust He wasn't openly homosexual that should be the primary reflection. I feel that the wording on this now is a little too political. This article ascribes motivation for his discretion , but we cannot be sure of that , it is speculation. It was his choice to be discrete , it's not up to us to fill in the gaps . Is the paragraph about the NT 's LGBT programme really relevant here? It is doubtful that the word homophobia ever entered Ketton-Cremer's lexicon, and Fry's suggestion he was a gay icon is nonsense. I'm not challenging that he was gay , but his sexuality was not a defining feature of him, it is merely incidental. Hmcst1 (talk) 08:44, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, I removed some of the speculation and commentary. Philafrenzy (talk) 10:05, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't say a Catherine Bennett opinion piece could be used as a source for anything, other than Catherine Bennett's own opinions. DuncanHill (talk) 15:43, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the words 'widely accepted by his friends' the source cited does not support this. The source says close friends were aware Hmcst1 (talk) 13:34, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]