Talk:Proton Arena

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Proton Arena article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Malaysia Low‑importance

	Malaysia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Malaysia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Malaysia and Malaysia-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MalaysiaWikipedia:WikiProject MalaysiaTemplate:WikiProject MalaysiaMalaysia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Automobiles Low‑importance

	Cars portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Automobiles, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of automobiles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AutomobilesWikipedia:WikiProject AutomobilesTemplate:WikiProject AutomobilesAutomobile articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Brands

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Brands, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of brands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BrandsWikipedia:WikiProject BrandsTemplate:WikiProject BrandsBrands articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

JumBuck Specifications[edit]

	Technical Specification

1.5GL / 1.5GS 1.5GLS 1.5GSX

Powertrain Model 4G15 4G15 4G15 No. of Cylinders In-Line 4 In-Line 4 In-Line 4 Valve Mechanism SOHC 12V SOHC 12V SOHC 12V Bore x Stroke (mm) 75.5 x 82.0 75.5 x 82.0 75.5 x 82.0 Total Displacement (cc) 1468 1468 1468 Compression Ratio 9.2 9.2 9.2 Max. Output (kW/ rpm) 64/ 6000 (86 BHP) 64/ 6000 (86 BHP) 64/ 6000 (86 BHP) Max. Torque (Nm/ rpm) 124/ 3000 124/ 3000 124/ 3000 Fuel System MPI MPI MPI Fuel Petrol Petrol Petrol Fuel Tank Capacity (litres) 50 50 50

Transmission Clutch Single Dry Plate Single Dry Plate Single Dry Plate Model F5M21 F5M21 F5M21 Gear Ratio

    - 1st 	3.363 	3.363 	3.363
    - 2nd 	1.947 	1.947 	1.947
    - 3rd 	1.285 	1.285 	1.285
    - 4th 	0.939 	0.939 	0.939
    - 5th 	0.777 	0.777 	0.777

Reverse 3.083 3.083 3.083 Final Reduction Gear Ratio 4.322 4.322 4.322

Chassis Steering Rack & Pinion Rack & Pinion Rack & Pinion Power Steering Standard Standard Standard

Suspension Front McPherson Strut & Coil Spring McPherson Strut & Coil Spring McPherson Strut & Coil Spring Rear Rigid Axle & Leaf Spring Rigid Axle & Leaf Spring Rigid Axle & Leaf Spring

Service Brake Type Front Ventilated Disc 14" Ventilated Disc 14" Ventilated Disc 14" Rear Drum 9" (LT) Drum 9" (LT) Drum 9" (LT) Brake Vacuum Size 9" 9" 9" Parking Brake Type Mechanical Mechanical Mechanical

Wheels Tyre Size 175/ 70 R14 175/ 70 R14 175/ 70 R14 Wheel Size Type Steel 14 x 5.5J Alloy 14 x 6.0J Alloy 14 x 6.0J

Power & Performance Maximum speed (mph) 96.3

Fuel Consumption (mpg/ (l/100km)) † Urban 29.5 (9.56) Extra-urban 50.1 (5.61) Combined 39.8 (7.07) CO2 emissions (g/km) 166

Dimensions (mm) Wheelbase (A) 2600 Overall Length (B) 4455 Overall Width (C) 1690 1710 1690 Overall Height (D)

  - without styling bars 	  	1425 	 
  - with styling bars 	  	1495

Track Width (E)

  - Front 	  	1450 	 
  - Rear 	  	1490

Load Height (F) 650 Load Width (Max) (G) 1349 Load Width (between wheel arches) 1200 Load Length (H) 1630 Load Area Height (J) 415 Ground Clearance (K) 170 Rear Overhang (L) 1035 Front Overhang (M) 820 Tailgate Width 1220 Turning Circle (wall to wall) (m) 5.1 Cargo Area Length (tailgate down) (mm) 2045

Weights (kg) Gross Vehicle Weight 1680 Gross Train Weight 2680 Max Front Axle Plated 669 Max Rear Axle Plated 1011 Max Trailer Weight (Braked) 1000 Max Trailer Weight (Unbraked) 750 Kerb Weight¹ 1035 1045 1035

Additional weights (kg): Roll Bar Weight 10 Load Liner Weight 9 Tow Bar & Ball Weight 19 Fuel (per 10 Litres) 10 Standard Canopy 42

Loads Max Trailer Nose Load 50 Max Cab Roof Load 50 Payload² 645 635 645

Capacities Cargo Area (Cubic metres) 0.82 Cargo Area (Litres) 817

† Dependent on driving style, road and traffic conditions, environmental influences, the state of the vehicle and equipment, in practice fuel consumption figures can arise which may deviate from the figures shown. ¹ Kerb Weight is for basic vehicle with standard fittings, no occupants and 10 litres of fuel. ² Payload is maximum permissible load including occupants, fuel, optional fittings & load carried.

I got this information off the Proton Website: http://www.proton.co.uk/jumbuck/specifications/technical.asp

Can anyone with good english help me edit this into the Arena Article ?

Thank you. Avielboys 06:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 24 February 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved, due to lack of support and the WP:RETAIN rationale. (non-admin close) Dicklyon (talk) 05:32, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Proton Arena → Proton Jumbuck –
- On average, there appears to be more Google search queries for 'Proton Jumbuck' than 'Proton Arena' data here
- I think it's best and more sensible to use the model name given for the most popular market, in this case Australia. The Arena/ Jumbuck didn't sell very well in Malaysia.
- Even Proton uses 'Jumbuck' these days, and not 'Arena' when describing the model. This is never the case when describing their other export models (S16, 400 Series, Natura etc.). Aero777 (talk) 17:21, 24 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are rules for these sorts of things. If all English-speaking markets use the same name, then that's what we title the page. Was it marketed as the Proton Arena anywhere outside of Malaysia? Cheers, Mr.choppers | ✎ 04:28, 25 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Mr.choppers, thanks for highlighting the conventions. Proton used 'Arena' for Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and South Africa, and 'Jumbuck' for the U.K., Australia, Cyprus and Taiwan. But by and large, it was most popular in Australia and the U.K.. The few units that sold domestically fetch high prices today, everyone hated it at launch, but it has proven its worth since. I have no problems leaving the page as 'Proton Arena', but I thought some members and readers would prefer 'Proton Jumbuck', as it's more widely used today. Thanks again, Aero777 (talk) 13:20, 25 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Aero777: - I think that South Africa and Singapore militate against a renaming of the page, but it's not totally black and white. For me, "Jumbuck" sounds very silly, but that's neither here nor there. Cheers, Mr.choppers | ✎ 03:46, 26 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Mr.choppers: Alright, in that case, I suppose it's best to leave the page title as is. However, if others have anything to add, most notably our guru, @OSX:, I'm sure it'll be taken into consideration too. But if no consensus is reached by March 2nd, then I guess we'll stick with 'Proton Arena'. Regards, Aero777 (talk) 03:21, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not really sure to be honest. I was waiting for more input from others to see if someone could give a good argument for one name over the other. I personally have no preference. WP:CARNAMES would suggest Arena, WP:COMMON NAME would preference Jumbuck. OSX (talk • contributions) 02:20, 2 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi OSX, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I suppose that since the page name is somewhat in a 'no man's land' between WP:CARNAMES and WP:COMMON NAME, and no one has as of yet provided any further arguments, I guess it's best to stick to the default 'Proton Arena' name for now. Also, the names for all of the other Proton articles abide the two WP definitions above, I guess it's no worries from here on out.

Thanks for your time, OSX & Mr.choppers, I appreciate it. Aero777 (talk) 07:21, 2 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

~~Support move~~ - although WikiProject conventions such as WP:CARNAME must always be taken into account, WP:COMMONNAME is a more important factor here, being a core plank of our article titling policy. In the article, we are told "although the Arena is offered in Malaysia, the Arena is not a staple of the local Malaysian market and is mostly an export model". That suggests that the international name will be the most common, rather than the Malaysian market name. Comments above, and the nominator's data, also seem to suggest Jumbuck is the more common name. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 12:18, 3 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Amakuru: If it's true that WP:COMMONNAME takes higher priority, then I guess 'Jumbuck' is more relevant. Another English-speaking market which used 'Jumbuck' is New Zealand. A recent quote from Proton's Head of Design suggests that Proton recognises the popularity of the Jumbuck abroad, so much so that he used the export name and not the domestic one (Arena). Aero777 (talk) 14:23, 3 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've come back to this a month later, and seeing the discussion below, I will now change my !vote to Oppose per WP:TIES. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 10:47, 14 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I'm not seeing the evidence that "Proton Jumbuck" is really the WP:COMMONNAME. "Proton Jumbuck" predominates on Google News, but on Google Books, "Proton Arena" returns 282 hits, compared to 190 for "Proton Jumbuck". On regular Google Search, the Google Trends linked to above actually appear to show the two names about at par as of 2016, which is significant considering the car hasn't been made since the 2010 model year.

There's also an WP:ENGVAR issue regarding WP:TIES. This is a Malaysian car and arguably, Malaysia has a recognized variety of English. The car was also released as the Arena in two other English-speaking countries, South Africa and Singapore. Unless "Jumbuck" is also recognizable in those countries, WP:RETAIN would suggest we keep the article where it is.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Cuchullain: Thanks for highlighting the variance between the two names in Google Books, I honestly wasn't aware of the whole Google Books thing all this while ! I guess this latest source of information tips the verdict in favour of WP:RETAIN. Regards, Aero777 (talk) 17:52, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. On that note, I'll shift to oppose.--Cúchullain ^t/c 18:25, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.