Talk:President
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Requested move 20 June 2019[edit]
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved to President (government title) with no prejudice against a near-immediate move to a different qualifier. Consensus is that this article is not the primary topic. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:40, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 | It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links: current log • target log |
– The term President has no primary topic. President (corporate title) has the most page views and the most incoming wikilinks, but President (government title) is close behind on both measures. As an article title, President also attracts bad incoming wikilinks. Most links to President (corporate title) led incorrectly to President (government title) before they were corrected. Such errors would be easily found and fixed with a dab at the base name. Certes (talk) 13:39, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- Support I think this is a WP:NOPRIMARY situation when the government title is compared to the corporate title.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 21:57, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- I would be inclined to support this proposal over the status quo, but what if we create a single article on the general concept of a president as one who presides over things, incorporating the section of the history of the term into that, and make the corporate and government titles subtopics of that article? bd2412 T 16:28, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
- That's an interesting idea which works if we're all happy with "president" in the sense of leader being a single broad topic. It also deals well with borderline cases such as presidents of local councils or supranational bodies, and will save a lot of tedious disambiguation. Certes (talk) 19:49, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
- Support. Having a sort of broad concept article covering only the first section of the current DAB (six articles of the almost forty listed there not counting the See also section) is an interesting idea but not convinced. Note that wp:BCA reads in part if the primary meaning of a term proposed for disambiguation is a broad concept or type of thing that is capable of being described in an article, and a substantial portion of the links asserted to be ambiguous are instances or examples of that concept or type (my emphasis, and my hobbyhorse P T again)... this clearly doesn't apply here. Nor convinced that (government title) is the best disambiguator... the article lead reads The president is a common title for the head of state in most republics. In politics, president is a title given to leaders of republican states and the DAB in part ...It is most commonly used in politics (see president)...... can we do better? Perhaps change the scope a little? Andrewa (talk) 22:32, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
- Please feel free to find a better qualifier. My first thought was President (head of state), which I didn't propose because the article is about the title rather than the person and has a major section about presidents who are not heads of state. We should certainly reword the lede of the dab once we confirm its pagename. If
links asserted to be ambiguous
means intentional links to President (disambiguation) then these are few in number and are mainly found in hatnotes which arguably fail WP:NAMB. Certes (talk) 22:45, 22 June 2019 (UTC)- @Andrewa: I'm sure you know that if we listed every office referred to as "President" on the page, it would drown out all other meanings. For example, here are some: President of Abkhazia, President of Afghanistan, President of Albania, President of Algeria, President of Ambazonia, President of Angola, President of Anjouan, President of Argentina, President of Armenia, President of Artsakh, President of Austria, President of Azad Kashmir, President of Azerbaijan, President of Bangladesh, President of Belarus, President of Bolivia, President of Botswana, President of Brazil, President of Bucknell University, President of Bulgaria, President of Burundi, President of California State University, Dominguez Hills, President of Cameroon, President of Campania, President of Cantabria, President of Central Philippine University, President of Chile, President of Chongqing University, President of Colombia, President of Corts Valencianes, President of Costa Rica, President of Crimea, President of Croatia, President of Cuba, President of Cyprus, President of Dáil Éireann, President of East Germany, President of East Timor, President of Ecuador, President of Egypt, President of El Salvador, President of Emilia-Romagna, President of Emporia State University, President of Estonia, President of Ethiopia, President of Fiji, President of Finland, President of France, President of French Polynesia, President of Fudan University, President of Georgetown University, President of Georgia, President of Germany, President of Ghana, President of Grande Comore, President of Greece, President of Grinnell College, President of Guatemala, President of Guyana, President of Haiti, President of Harvard University, President of Honduras, President of Hunan First Normal University, President of Hunan University, President of Hungary, President of Iceland, President of Ichkeria, President of Imperial College London, President of India, President of Indonesia, President of Iran, President of Iraq, President of Iraqi Kurdistan, President of Ireland, President of Ireland's Cup, President of Israel, President of Italy, President of Kazakhstan, President of Kenya, President of Kiribati, President of Kosovo, President of Kyrgyzstan, President of La Rioja, President of Laos, President of Latvia, President of Lazio, President of Lebanon, President of Liberia, President of Liguria, President of Lombardy, President of Madagascar's Small Grants Scheme, President of Malawi, President of Malta, President of Marche, President of Mauritius, President of Mexico, President of Mohéli, President of Moldova, President of Mongolia, President of Montenegro, President of Myanmar, President of Namibia, President of Nauru, President of Nepal, President of Nicaragua, President of Nigeria, President of North Macedonia, President of Northern Cyprus, President of Oberlin College, President of Pakistan, President of Palau, President of Paraguay, President of Peking University, President of Peru, President of Poland, President of Poland's Football Cup, President of Portugal, President of Princeton University, President of Republika Srpska, President of Rhodesia, President of Romania, President of Russia, President of Savannah State University, President of Senegal, President of Serbia, President of Serbia and Montenegro, President of Sierra Leone, President of Singapore, President of Slovakia, President of Slovenia, President of Somalia, President of South Africa, President of South Korea, President of South Ossetia, President of Sri Lanka, President of Suriname, President of Syria, President of Tajikistan, President of Tanzania, President of Tianjin University, President of Transnistria, President of Trinidad and Tobago, President of Tsinghua University, President of Tunisia, President of Turkey, President of Turkmenistan, President of Tuscany, President of Tynwald, President of Uganda, President of Ukraine, President of Ukraine (in exile), President of Umbria, President of Uruguay, President of Uzbekistan, President of Vanuatu, President of Veneto, President of Venezuela, President of Vietnam, President of Welsh Tribunals, President of Yemen, President of Yugoslavia, President of Zambia, President of Zanzibar, President of Zimbabwe, President of Zimbabwe Rhodesia, President of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, President of the Assembly of Vojvodina, President of the Assembly of the Representatives of the People, President of the Autonomous Region of Bougainville, President of the Balearic Islands, President of the Board of Control, President of the Board of Trade, President of the Bundestag, President of the Canary Islands, President of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines, President of the Chamber of Advisors, President of the Chamber of Deputies, President of the Chamber of Deputies (Brazil), President of the Chamber of Deputies (Italy), President of the Chamber of Deputies (Mexico), President of the Chamber of Deputies of Bolivia, President of the Chamber of Deputies of Chile, President of the Chamber of Deputies of Romania, President of the Chamber of Deputies of the Dominican Republic, President of the Church, President of the Church (LDS Church), President of the City Assembly of Belgrade, President of the City Assembly of Novi Sad, President of the Community of Madrid, President of the Confederate States of America, President of the Congress of Colombia, President of the Congress of Deputies, President of the Constituent National Assembly, President of the Constitutional Court (Spain), President of the Continental Congress, President of the Council of Kumanovo Municipality, President of the Council of Ministers, President of the Council of Ministers of the Mexican Empire, President of the Council of State, President of the Council of State of Nicaragua, President of the Court of Appeal of Fiji, President of the Court of Appeal of Malaysia, President of the Court of Appeal of the Bahamas, President of the Czech Republic, President of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, President of the Dewan Negara, President of the Dominican Republic, President of the European Central Bank, President of the European Commission, President of the European Council, President of the European Parliament, President of the European Union, President of the Executive Council of the Irish Free State, President of the Family Division, President of the Federal Executive Council of Yugoslavia, President of the Federal Senate (Brazil), President of the Federated States of Micronesia, President of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, President of the Gambia, President of the General Council of Martinique, President of the George Washington University, President of the German Bundesrat, President of the Government of Aragon, President of the Government of Catalonia, President of the Government of New Caledonia, President of the Government of Vojvodina, President of the Hamburg Parliament, President of the Illinois Senate, President of the Institutional Revolutionary Party, President of the International Olympic Committee, President of the Irish Republic, President of the Junta of Castile and León, President of the Junta of Communities of Castilla–La Mancha, President of the Kentucky Senate, President of the League of Communists of Bosnia and Herzegovina, President of the League of Communists of Croatia, President of the League of Communists of Kosovo, President of the League of Communists of Macedonia, President of the League of Communists of Montenegro, President of the League of Communists of Serbia, President of the League of Communists of Slovenia, President of the League of Communists of Vojvodina, President of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia, President of the Legislative Assembly of Macau, President of the Legislative Assembly of Rwanda, President of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong, President of the Legislative Council of the Isle of Man, President of the Legislative Yuan, President of the Liberal Democrats, President of the Liberal Party, President of the Local Government Board, President of the Los Angeles City Council, President of the Louisiana State Senate, President of the Maldives, President of the Marshall Islands, President of the Maryland Senate, President of the Massachusetts Senate, President of the Moldovan Parliament, President of the Municipal Chamber, President of the National Assembly of Armenia, President of the National Assembly of Artsakh, President of the National Assembly of Laos, President of the National Assembly of Quebec, President of the National Assembly of Serbia, President of the National Assembly of Thailand, President of the National Assembly of Venezuela, President of the National Council (Austria), President of the National Youth Council of Nigeria, President of the Navajo Nation, President of the Naval War College, President of the New South Wales Legislative Council, President of the Nigerian courts of appeals, President of the Organising Committee for the Olympic Games, President of the Palestinian National Authority, President of the Pan African Forum of Civil Societies, President of the Parliament of Montenegro, President of the Parliament of Sint Maarten, President of the Pennsylvania Senate, President of the People's Republic of China, President of the Philippines, President of the Polytechnic University of the Philippines, President of the Presidency of SAP Kosovo, President of the Presidency of SAP Vojvodina, President of the Presidency of SR Croatia, President of the Presidency of SR Serbia, President of the Presidency of Yugoslavia, President of the Presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly, President of the Principality of Asturias, President of the Queen's Bench Division, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, President of the Queensland Legislative Council, President of the Quorum of the Twelve, President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (LDS Church), President of the RSUA, President of the Regency Council, President of the Region of Murcia, President of the Regional Council (France), President of the Regional Council (Italy), President of the Regional Council of Veneto, President of the Regional Government of Andalusia, President of the Regional Government of Extremadura, President of the Regional Government of Galicia, President of the Republic, President of the Republic (Spain), President of the Republic of China, President of the Republic of Kazakhstan's Cup, President of the Republic of South Africa v M&G Media, President of the Republic of Tatarstan, President of the Republic of Texas, President of the Rhode Island Senate, President of the Royal Astronomical Society, President of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, President of the Senate, President of the Senate (Australia), President of the Senate (Italy), President of the Senate (Mexico), President of the Senate (Netherlands), President of the Senate of Bolivia, President of the Senate of Ceylon, President of the Senate of Chile, President of the Senate of Fiji, President of the Senate of Nigeria, President of the Senate of Puerto Rico, President of the Senate of Romania, President of the Senate of South Africa, President of the Senate of Spain, President of the Senate of Trinidad and Tobago, President of the Senate of the Czech Republic, President of the Senate of the Philippines, President of the South Australian Legislative Council, President of the Soviet Union. bd2412 T 00:20, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
- IMO those aren't links asserted to be ambiguous at all (although I admit I haven't checked them all). I'm taking that phrase to mean articles which fall under the scope of It is not always possible to use the exact title that may be desired for an article, as that title may have other meanings.... (WP:ATDAB, my emphasis) I don't think we'd think that President was the title desired for the article on President of the Senate of the Philippines, for example. Andrewa (talk) 07:01, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
- Nevertheless, I can guarantee that you can find local media for a large number of these referring to the officeholder as "President" without qualifying what they are the president of. My point is merely that the topics on the disambiguation page not referring to a leadership position are minimal compared to those which do intend such a reference, irrespective of whether the president in question leads a board, a company, or a country. bd2412 T 03:38, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- Agree but I still think it's irrelevant. Those aren't articles that we could realistically consider putting at the article title President. That's why they're not listed on the DAB and shouldn't be. Listing them here was similarly a waste of time and space (sorry if that's disparaging). Andrewa (talk) 21:16, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- Nevertheless, I can guarantee that you can find local media for a large number of these referring to the officeholder as "President" without qualifying what they are the president of. My point is merely that the topics on the disambiguation page not referring to a leadership position are minimal compared to those which do intend such a reference, irrespective of whether the president in question leads a board, a company, or a country. bd2412 T 03:38, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- IMO those aren't links asserted to be ambiguous at all (although I admit I haven't checked them all). I'm taking that phrase to mean articles which fall under the scope of It is not always possible to use the exact title that may be desired for an article, as that title may have other meanings.... (WP:ATDAB, my emphasis) I don't think we'd think that President was the title desired for the article on President of the Senate of the Philippines, for example. Andrewa (talk) 07:01, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
- I don't have a specific disambiguator in mind, so I'm inviting discussion of one. And if we can't find one that suggests that we may need to look at the scope(s) of the relevant article(s).
- Regarding the meaning of links asserted to be ambiguous, yes, exactly. Andrewa (talk) 07:01, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Andrewa: I'm sure you know that if we listed every office referred to as "President" on the page, it would drown out all other meanings. For example, here are some: President of Abkhazia, President of Afghanistan, President of Albania, President of Algeria, President of Ambazonia, President of Angola, President of Anjouan, President of Argentina, President of Armenia, President of Artsakh, President of Austria, President of Azad Kashmir, President of Azerbaijan, President of Bangladesh, President of Belarus, President of Bolivia, President of Botswana, President of Brazil, President of Bucknell University, President of Bulgaria, President of Burundi, President of California State University, Dominguez Hills, President of Cameroon, President of Campania, President of Cantabria, President of Central Philippine University, President of Chile, President of Chongqing University, President of Colombia, President of Corts Valencianes, President of Costa Rica, President of Crimea, President of Croatia, President of Cuba, President of Cyprus, President of Dáil Éireann, President of East Germany, President of East Timor, President of Ecuador, President of Egypt, President of El Salvador, President of Emilia-Romagna, President of Emporia State University, President of Estonia, President of Ethiopia, President of Fiji, President of Finland, President of France, President of French Polynesia, President of Fudan University, President of Georgetown University, President of Georgia, President of Germany, President of Ghana, President of Grande Comore, President of Greece, President of Grinnell College, President of Guatemala, President of Guyana, President of Haiti, President of Harvard University, President of Honduras, President of Hunan First Normal University, President of Hunan University, President of Hungary, President of Iceland, President of Ichkeria, President of Imperial College London, President of India, President of Indonesia, President of Iran, President of Iraq, President of Iraqi Kurdistan, President of Ireland, President of Ireland's Cup, President of Israel, President of Italy, President of Kazakhstan, President of Kenya, President of Kiribati, President of Kosovo, President of Kyrgyzstan, President of La Rioja, President of Laos, President of Latvia, President of Lazio, President of Lebanon, President of Liberia, President of Liguria, President of Lombardy, President of Madagascar's Small Grants Scheme, President of Malawi, President of Malta, President of Marche, President of Mauritius, President of Mexico, President of Mohéli, President of Moldova, President of Mongolia, President of Montenegro, President of Myanmar, President of Namibia, President of Nauru, President of Nepal, President of Nicaragua, President of Nigeria, President of North Macedonia, President of Northern Cyprus, President of Oberlin College, President of Pakistan, President of Palau, President of Paraguay, President of Peking University, President of Peru, President of Poland, President of Poland's Football Cup, President of Portugal, President of Princeton University, President of Republika Srpska, President of Rhodesia, President of Romania, President of Russia, President of Savannah State University, President of Senegal, President of Serbia, President of Serbia and Montenegro, President of Sierra Leone, President of Singapore, President of Slovakia, President of Slovenia, President of Somalia, President of South Africa, President of South Korea, President of South Ossetia, President of Sri Lanka, President of Suriname, President of Syria, President of Tajikistan, President of Tanzania, President of Tianjin University, President of Transnistria, President of Trinidad and Tobago, President of Tsinghua University, President of Tunisia, President of Turkey, President of Turkmenistan, President of Tuscany, President of Tynwald, President of Uganda, President of Ukraine, President of Ukraine (in exile), President of Umbria, President of Uruguay, President of Uzbekistan, President of Vanuatu, President of Veneto, President of Venezuela, President of Vietnam, President of Welsh Tribunals, President of Yemen, President of Yugoslavia, President of Zambia, President of Zanzibar, President of Zimbabwe, President of Zimbabwe Rhodesia, President of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, President of the Assembly of Vojvodina, President of the Assembly of the Representatives of the People, President of the Autonomous Region of Bougainville, President of the Balearic Islands, President of the Board of Control, President of the Board of Trade, President of the Bundestag, President of the Canary Islands, President of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines, President of the Chamber of Advisors, President of the Chamber of Deputies, President of the Chamber of Deputies (Brazil), President of the Chamber of Deputies (Italy), President of the Chamber of Deputies (Mexico), President of the Chamber of Deputies of Bolivia, President of the Chamber of Deputies of Chile, President of the Chamber of Deputies of Romania, President of the Chamber of Deputies of the Dominican Republic, President of the Church, President of the Church (LDS Church), President of the City Assembly of Belgrade, President of the City Assembly of Novi Sad, President of the Community of Madrid, President of the Confederate States of America, President of the Congress of Colombia, President of the Congress of Deputies, President of the Constituent National Assembly, President of the Constitutional Court (Spain), President of the Continental Congress, President of the Council of Kumanovo Municipality, President of the Council of Ministers, President of the Council of Ministers of the Mexican Empire, President of the Council of State, President of the Council of State of Nicaragua, President of the Court of Appeal of Fiji, President of the Court of Appeal of Malaysia, President of the Court of Appeal of the Bahamas, President of the Czech Republic, President of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, President of the Dewan Negara, President of the Dominican Republic, President of the European Central Bank, President of the European Commission, President of the European Council, President of the European Parliament, President of the European Union, President of the Executive Council of the Irish Free State, President of the Family Division, President of the Federal Executive Council of Yugoslavia, President of the Federal Senate (Brazil), President of the Federated States of Micronesia, President of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, President of the Gambia, President of the General Council of Martinique, President of the George Washington University, President of the German Bundesrat, President of the Government of Aragon, President of the Government of Catalonia, President of the Government of New Caledonia, President of the Government of Vojvodina, President of the Hamburg Parliament, President of the Illinois Senate, President of the Institutional Revolutionary Party, President of the International Olympic Committee, President of the Irish Republic, President of the Junta of Castile and León, President of the Junta of Communities of Castilla–La Mancha, President of the Kentucky Senate, President of the League of Communists of Bosnia and Herzegovina, President of the League of Communists of Croatia, President of the League of Communists of Kosovo, President of the League of Communists of Macedonia, President of the League of Communists of Montenegro, President of the League of Communists of Serbia, President of the League of Communists of Slovenia, President of the League of Communists of Vojvodina, President of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia, President of the Legislative Assembly of Macau, President of the Legislative Assembly of Rwanda, President of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong, President of the Legislative Council of the Isle of Man, President of the Legislative Yuan, President of the Liberal Democrats, President of the Liberal Party, President of the Local Government Board, President of the Los Angeles City Council, President of the Louisiana State Senate, President of the Maldives, President of the Marshall Islands, President of the Maryland Senate, President of the Massachusetts Senate, President of the Moldovan Parliament, President of the Municipal Chamber, President of the National Assembly of Armenia, President of the National Assembly of Artsakh, President of the National Assembly of Laos, President of the National Assembly of Quebec, President of the National Assembly of Serbia, President of the National Assembly of Thailand, President of the National Assembly of Venezuela, President of the National Council (Austria), President of the National Youth Council of Nigeria, President of the Navajo Nation, President of the Naval War College, President of the New South Wales Legislative Council, President of the Nigerian courts of appeals, President of the Organising Committee for the Olympic Games, President of the Palestinian National Authority, President of the Pan African Forum of Civil Societies, President of the Parliament of Montenegro, President of the Parliament of Sint Maarten, President of the Pennsylvania Senate, President of the People's Republic of China, President of the Philippines, President of the Polytechnic University of the Philippines, President of the Presidency of SAP Kosovo, President of the Presidency of SAP Vojvodina, President of the Presidency of SR Croatia, President of the Presidency of SR Serbia, President of the Presidency of Yugoslavia, President of the Presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly, President of the Principality of Asturias, President of the Queen's Bench Division, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, President of the Queensland Legislative Council, President of the Quorum of the Twelve, President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (LDS Church), President of the RSUA, President of the Regency Council, President of the Region of Murcia, President of the Regional Council (France), President of the Regional Council (Italy), President of the Regional Council of Veneto, President of the Regional Government of Andalusia, President of the Regional Government of Extremadura, President of the Regional Government of Galicia, President of the Republic, President of the Republic (Spain), President of the Republic of China, President of the Republic of Kazakhstan's Cup, President of the Republic of South Africa v M&G Media, President of the Republic of Tatarstan, President of the Republic of Texas, President of the Rhode Island Senate, President of the Royal Astronomical Society, President of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, President of the Senate, President of the Senate (Australia), President of the Senate (Italy), President of the Senate (Mexico), President of the Senate (Netherlands), President of the Senate of Bolivia, President of the Senate of Ceylon, President of the Senate of Chile, President of the Senate of Fiji, President of the Senate of Nigeria, President of the Senate of Puerto Rico, President of the Senate of Romania, President of the Senate of South Africa, President of the Senate of Spain, President of the Senate of Trinidad and Tobago, President of the Senate of the Czech Republic, President of the Senate of the Philippines, President of the South Australian Legislative Council, President of the Soviet Union. bd2412 T 00:20, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
- Please feel free to find a better qualifier. My first thought was President (head of state), which I didn't propose because the article is about the title rather than the person and has a major section about presidents who are not heads of state. We should certainly reword the lede of the dab once we confirm its pagename. If
- Support in general. I suggest moving President to President (political leader). I'm neutral over a BCA, which would effectively merge some President (foo) articles. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:23, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
- Support, as no WP:PTOPIC. I suggest as title President (politics).
- There could well be room for an article describing the history and usage of the word, but it doesn't yet exist. President (history of the term) exists, but it's currently a redirect to President. Narky Blert (talk) 17:49, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. I think the primary topic is definitely the head of state. As a native of a country that doesn't have one, it's still certainly the first thing I (and I believe most of my compatriots) would think of if they heard the term. Then again, we don't usually use the term to mean the head of a company; usually only for the honorary head of a non-profit organisation. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:42, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
The article currently at President[edit]
I just Googled "National President" -Wikipedia and got more than 4 million ghits (your results may vary), so perhaps National President might be a suitable natural disambiguation? Andrewa (talk) 05:13, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
- Good idea, though I'd put the generic term in sentence case: National president. The article does briefly cover entities other than nations (President#Sub-national, President#Judiciary) but we can probably get away with those. Where would we link the president of a local council, as in City council#United States and Canada and many articles which describe a particular council? Certes (talk) 08:28, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.