Talk:Premiership Rugby

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Comments[edit]

Discussion: When should we change the name of the article (i.e., Zurich Premiership to Guinness Premiership) to reflect the new sponsorship? Dale Arnett 01:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No time like the present IIRC the RFU's site uses the name Guinness Premiership.GordyB 12:06, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Saracens badge.png[edit]

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BetacommandBot 06:16, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Current league table[edit]

Wouldn't it be useful to have a current league table?--161.73.14.15 (talk) 09:53, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See 2007-08 Guinness Premiership. I've added a link to that article. Jimmy Pitt (talk) 12:46, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article name[edit]

A discussion is taking place at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union as the name of this article along with the Magners League and the Heineken Cup --Snowded (talk) 21:42, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Map[edit]

Surely Sale are in the wrong place. Greater Manchester is in the North West not the West Midlands. It looks more like Stoke-on-Trent than Stockport.GordyB (talk) 18:33, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Does this look better:

class=notpageimage|
2008-09 Guinness Premiership Teams

noq (talk) 19:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, well done.GordyB (talk) 19:54, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Salary Cap[edit]

I've not got a massive depth of rugby knowledge, but I've heard there's a salary cap in this league that isn't mentioned in the article. As lots of players seem to be leaving due to the salary cap (more money in France), wouldn't it be a relevant thing to mention? Sorry I can't do it myself - don't know enough about the topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.93.201 (talk) 08:25, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that is definitely a discussion topic to be added. In particular how it affects team's ability to compete in the Heineken Cup and how Leicester F.C. hate it. Captain of the Golden Hind (talk) 09:50, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

 Done

Guinness Premiership → Aviva Premiership — Change of sponser for the competition should have a change of name for the article. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 11:51, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment why Aviva Premiership rather than English Premiership (rugby union) ? Gnevin (talk) 16:43, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is the problem when sponsors' names are included in article titles: they change every couple of years. The usual format on Wikipedia is to omit the sponsor, particularly for venues and sports leagues. See the move proposal at Talk:AEGON Championships. I would support Gnevin's suggestion that the article be moved to English Premiership (rugby union). Anything relevant at Aviva Premiership should then be merged into this article. Skinsmoke (talk) 03:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as nom. The problem is that if this move request is rejected, then the page is left in an out-of-date condition. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 07:41, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have moved the page to Aviva Premiership for the time being to try to prevent another cut and paste move. I see the logic with moving to English Premiership (rugby union), though think that the article should reflect the current name and so Aviva Premiership is the most logical (obviously Guinness Premiership is no longer relevant). Nouse4aname (talk) 14:11, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:11, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Aviva Premiership → English Premiership (rugby union) — in a other 4 years we will be discussing this again and we have 2010–11_Aviva_Premiership and 2009–10_Guinness_Premiership which is confusing . Internal consitancy is best served by redirects to English Premiership from sponsors Gnevin (talk) 17:29, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose I'm afraid I have to oppose this simply on the grounds of consistency and that we do have pages that do this kind of thing with sponsor moves which isn't that disruptive (ie.DW Stadium) The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 20:09, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment DW Stadium never had a standard name Gnevin (talk) 21:11, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, Imtech Arena would have been a better example. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 11:10, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Having a consistent name over time with redirects from the sponsor name would mean that this discussion would be moot. Articles where the distinction is appropriate can link to the redirect page, others can link link directly. Change of sponsor is just a new redirect. noq (talk) 00:23, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support For the reasons I set out in the discussion above, plus the points made by noq. Redirects from Aviva Premiership, Guinness Premiership, Snickers Premiership or whatever would ensure that nobody had trouble finding the article. In association football we have the equivalent at Premier League, not at Barclays Premier League, which is a redirect. I know that "other shit exists" is not a good argument, but in this case, if it works for soccer's top league, which is followed by many more people than the rugby union league, it should work here too. Skinsmoke (talk) 04:49, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The main article page should be located at a neutral title that won't need moving every few years, particularly as the sponsor seems to change so frequently. The sponsored name can be mentioned in the lead and in relevant sections of the article. However, I think articles for specific seasons should be located at the sponsored name, as this is invariably the most commonly used and recognised name (though I recognise this isn't the issue here). BTW, apologies if my move to Aviva Premiership caused any disruption here, I simply wanted to avoid another cut and paste attempt at moving the article again! Also, yes I changed my mind from what I said yesterday! Nouse4aname (talk) 09:40, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Nouse4aname, I wouldn't worry about it . I was going to move it to this title anyway since it was a non-controversial move and open this RM since it is move controversial Gnevin (talk) 11:33, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support although I have not been involved in the preceding discussion it is akin the requested move at Talk:Super 14#Requested move. In both cases a change in the name of the competition results in a move, and then another. This move allows the whole span of the competition to be discussed in one place, but then very specific subsidiary article to be written (if as a project we decide that is required. In the case of Super 14 a full discussion of Super 6 is almost out of place, but would fall into Super Rugby handily. The question is identical here with sponsor names. English Premiership (rugby union) serves the needs of this subject perfectly.SauliH (talk) 20:39, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - other domestic competitions in other sports are known here by their real names rather than by the names given by their sponsors. 81.110.111.164 (talk) 01:45, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional Oppose - See Magners League where there was an extensive discussion. This should probably go to a central forum for a one time resolution on naming conventions. --Snowded TALK 01:51, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Conditional upon ... ? 81.110.111.164 (talk) 04:06, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • I oppose a change being made here in isolation from a more general agreement. APologies, I thought that was obvious but happy to spell it out --Snowded TALK 05:45, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Previous discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union/Archive 6#Naming conventions - Sponsorship of competitions noq (talk) 09:27, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Wow, that had some heat to it. I stopped reading after the first 30 or so comments. I am with Snowded that this decision should be discussed at the project level and a project naming protocol be formulated for competitions. Otherwise this could be an ongoing debate.SauliH (talk) 13:50, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed, We don't want another "game" of rename ping-pong like at Eye-gouging (rugby union) The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 14:12, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Reading that the key phrase is "common use", so the Magners League and the Heineken Cup have the sponsor name . Premiership and Guinness Premiership have always been a bit interchangeable, but I would expect Aviva's deal to require use of the name. On that basis it is likely to be the common name --Snowded
    • CommentI have opened a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union#Naming protocol for competitions. Not trying to undermine the straw polls here and at Super 14, but enough debate has happened to indicate that this is a broader discussion than at just this article.SauliH (talk) 14:55, 11 July 2010 (UTC)TALK 14:50, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I proposed this a long time ago for the European Rugby Cup and the Celtic League. – PeeJay 12:26, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Image copyright problem with File:Aviva Premiership Rugby Logo.png[edit]

The image File:Aviva Premiership Rugby Logo.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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Holders[edit]

It says in that the current holders of the Aviva Premiership title are Saracens, which is true, but it says that the season they are holding the trophy for is "2011-12", surely they are the holders of 2010-11 and this is incorrect, as the season they won the trophy in was 2010-11? Or does it mean that they will be holders of the trophy for the 2011-12 season? Thanks. SAULGNRFAN (talk) 14:07, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 8 August 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus for move. Latest comment uncountered for 5 days (non-admin closure) — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 20:37, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

English Premiership (rugby union) → English Premiership – No one calls the football division "the English Premiership", and that's never been its name. A hatnote will suffice. Unreal7 (talk) 20:31, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support unless there is solid evidence that the Premier League is actually referred to as the English Premiership on anything resembling a regular basis a hatnote will suffice.--67.68.20.22 (talk) 05:47, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Against Football's now Premier League was known as the Premiership for 13 years between 1994 and 2007, there is the potential for significant confusion. Skeene88 —Preceding undated comment added 15:04, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Request Move 18 March 2017[edit]

English Premiership (rugby union) → Premiership Rugby.

Reasons for this:

  • Premiership Rugby is the proper name of the competition: "premiershiprugby.com". whilst no source other than here calls it English Premiership (rugby union)
  • Whilst there are other competitions that call themselves Premierships such as the Scottish and Welsh versions these are all known by their national names i.e. Scottish Premiership and when googling "Premiership Rugby" I can only find one reference to each of the above competitions on the first 7 pages of results. A hat note towards those competitions should suffice as the vast majority of people looking for Premiership Rugby will be looking for this page.Skeene88 (talk) 10:32, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No challenges to this so I'm going to do it.Skeene88 (talk) 21:17, 24 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Anybody able to add a new logo for Gallagher Premiership? Aviva one will be outdated as of 01 July 2018 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.171.240.185 (talk) 19:46, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Have now updated to the competitions new main brand logo. There is also a Gallagher branded logo but think this should be used only on the season's which Gallagher have sponsored.Skeene88 (talk) 12:17, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should be the sponsor logo. This is what will appear on all media and is consistent with other pages on here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven a91 (talk • contribs)

Super League, Super Rugby, Top 14, Premier League all use sponsorless logos for the main competition page. Pro14 uses one with sponsor. Given the consensus was for the page name to be sponsorless I think that holds for the image too. As I say no problem with the individual seasons using the sponsor image.Skeene88 (talk) 09:42, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with User:Skeene88. Reserve the sponsored version for those season articles that it applies to. noq (talk) 11:20, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What the file name for the Gallagher one for season pages?

Should we lock this page?[edit]

It seems to be suffering from persistent low level petty vandalism, should it be locked to registered users only? Skeene88 (talk) 08:11, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just make a report to WP:RFPP. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 12:59, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Saracens titles and asterixs[edit]

Hello all. I have decided to keep the asterix's that keep getting added to Saracens alongside a factual note of the circumstances surrounding it. I think this is a fair and accurate way to portray this information without unduly favouring one view or the other. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Skeene88 (talk) 13:57, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The best course of action is probably not to have a note regarding the salary breach under the champions section of the Premiership Rugby page because it is not relevant. It is better situated under the 2019–20 Premiership Rugby page. However if Saracens eventually get stripped of a title (which may still happen) then obviously a note will be needed. Racingmanager (talk) 15:08, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say there's no need for a note now as they are factually recognised as champions then and now. One should not be added until such time as the titles are stripped from them by PR or the RFU if it ever occurs . The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 15:16, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Equally though they were found to be in breach of the cap in those seasons and to not say it there means someone looking up the number of titles won wouldn't see it at all, if the titles are stripped they will be removed all together from that table because they would no longer be anyone's and the note would need to be added to the list of finals above. I will leave the asterix's off the table for now pending any further comments and revert anyone that adds them back in, directing them to here.Skeene88 (talk) 19:42, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Given the magnitude of the fine and points deduction for the past 3 seasons and forced relegation this season I'm not sure how you can't put a note on all the affected Saracens winning seasons. To not do so is to ignore the cheating completely as not everyone is going to go and look at individual season info (which also needs to have the relevant information added). Atomicwasp (talk) 08:25, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

League table rankings[edit]

There doesn't appear to be anywhere on this page that explains the full ranking order of the league table, as per the Premiership Rugby site. This leaves a 'hole' in the knowledge contained in the page.Nifty1a (talk) 19:54, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[1]

GALLAGHER PREMIERSHIP RUGBY LEAGUE RULES During Gallagher Premiership Rugby points will be awarded as follows: • 4 points will be awarded for a win • 2 points will be awarded for a draw • 1 point will be awarded to a team that loses a match by 7 points or less • 1 point will be awarded to a team scoring 4 tries or more in a match

In the case of equality at any stage of the Season, positions at that stage of the season shall be determined firstly by the number of wins achieved and then on the basis of match points differential. A Club with a larger number of wins shall be placed higher than a Club with the same number of league points but fewer wins.

If Clubs have equal league points and equal number of wins then a Club with a larger difference between match points “for” and match points “against” shall be placed higher in the Premiership League than a Club with a smaller difference between match points “for” and match points “against”.

Should two Clubs have the same number of league points and the same match points difference, the Club having scored more match points “for” shall be placed higher in the Premiership League than the Club having the lesser number of match points “for”.

If the above does not establish different Premiership League positions then the Club in the higher position shall be the Club that has achieved the higher aggregate match points scored by it in the same season against the other Club.

If this still does not establish the position then the Club who has won the most matches, excluding its first Premiership League match of the season, then its second Premiership League match and so on, until it can be established which the higher placed Club is.

References

  1. ^ https://www.premiershiprugby.com/gallagher-premiership-rugby/league-table/

Sponsorship details.[edit]

Should the league sponsor history be in a table?

Year Sponsor League Name
2000-01 Zurich Zurich Premiership
2001-02 Zurich Zurich Premiership
2002-03 Zurich Zurich Premiership
2003-04 Zurich Zurich Premiership
2004-05 Zurich Zurich Premiership
2005-06 Guinness Guinness Premiership
2006-07 Guinness Guinness Premiership
2007-08 Guinness Guinness Premiership
2008-09 Guinness Guinness Premiership
2009-10 Guinness Guinness Premiership
2010-11 Aviva Aviva Premiership
2011-12 Aviva Aviva Premiership
2012-13 Aviva Aviva Premiership
2013-14 Aviva Aviva Premiership
2014-15 Aviva Aviva Premiership
2015-16 Aviva Aviva Premiership
2016-17 Aviva Aviva Premiership
2017-18 Aviva Aviva Premiership
2018-19 Gallagher Gallagher Premiership
2019-20 Gallagher Gallagher Premiership

Nifty1a (talk) 20:17, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see no problem with what is currently shown in the article (below). Are you proposing a replacement larger table with no sponsor links or pre-2000 info OR something else as a replacement? Racingmanager (talk) 10:24, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sponsorship =[edit]

Period Sponsor Name
1987–1997 Courage Brewery Courage League National Division One
1997–2000 Allied Dunbar Allied Dunbar Premiership
2000–2005 Zurich Insurance Group Zurich Premiership
2005–2010 Guinness Guinness Premiership
2010–2018 Aviva Aviva Premiership
2018–current Arthur J. Gallagher & Co. Gallagher Premiership

"Traditional" games[edit]

In the history section there are two references to clubs playing so-called "traditional" games, the 2nd reference bemoaning that such games were sometimes no longer possible when a fixture list was introduced. I feel it would be helpful to include a short explanation as to what is meant by this, since none of the pages for Rugby union, English rugby union system or History of the English rugby union system make any reference to these games or how they differed from games played according to a fixture list. 2A00:23C4:4A9C:8C01:1677:E6E9:265A:E261 (talk) 21:07, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea, might re-write that section in totality, it's full of rubbish really.Skeene88 (talk) 16:55, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. coverage[edit]

Premiership rugby is no longer on NBC Sports, which is itself apparently being phased out. (One of the two NBC Sports channels in the Washington D.C. area has recently gone dark, the one that carried coverage of the Premiership, European Championship, Six Nations,sevens tour and the most recent B&I Lions tour.) Premiership rugby, sevens, and, currently, the Womens' World Cup have moved to Peacock Prime, another NBC platform. Toyokuni3 (talk) 20:34, 20 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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