Talk:Portals (Melanie Martinez album)

track times

Resolved

hey, so music streaming/purchasing store has all the song's time lengths so can i put them up? https://www.qobuz.com/nz-en/album/portals-melanie-martinez/rjqzu8fcrx98b Danger Days Fabulous Killjoy (talk) 01:06, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@Danger Days Fabulous Killjoy, I checked the website and it appears none of the songs' time lengths aren't available, yet. Though it does show the album's total length, but I feel we should wait until the album is released (with the songs' time lengths fully revealed). — JuanGLP (talk + contribs) 01:14, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Now it appears that the time lengths were revealed, so I guess this will be marked resolved. — JuanGLP (talk + contribs) 15:10, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@JuanGLP: if this has been resolved, why did you again remove the track times here? Qobuz very clearly shows the individual track times. You have no reason to still be removing them. I don't know if Qobuz works or shows them for you, but it clearly does for a variety of other editors. Ss112 00:23, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, I do not know Qobuz, as well, @Ss112. I thought the website was like Genius. But I checked the website three times to see if I wasn't being delulu about. Honestly, the time lengths does not appear for me. IF, it does shows for the other editors, it is probably restricted for me since Qobuz is a French company (located in France) and I live in the US. But right now, I am not trying to argue, so you editors can add it. — JuanGLP (talk + contribs) 02:26, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

@JuanGLP: We should not put an explicit citation to Qobuz on the page, because links to e-commerce sources (that primarily exist to sell a service, like streaming) should avoid being linked to as it can be seen as a promotion of the material. At that, MOS:ALBUM tells us we do not need to cite track listings anyway. Secondly, please do not restore unnecessary small text that I have already removed in the personnel section per MOS:SMALL. Editors only make track notes small for aesthetic reasons—it's stylistic and should never have become a thing. Ss112 03:12, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Funny how you said, "if this has been resolved, why did you again remove the track times here? Qobuz very clearly shows the individual track times. You have no reason to still be removing them."

And now you said, "We should not put an explicit citation to Qobuz on the page, because links to e-commerce sources (that primarily exist to sell a service, like streaming) should avoid being linked to as it can be seen as a promotion of the material." Please make up your mind, thank you. — JuanGLP (talk + contribs) 00:33, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

@JuanGLP: There's no contradiction in what I said. I said you—either you individually or whomever doubted that the track times were official and available before the album's release (which you personally seemed to, as you removed them twice)—could see them on Qobuz. I did not say anywhere that the Qobuz source needed to be on the article. If you're going to try to call me out on contradicting myself, at least make sure I had said "the Qobuz citation needs to be on the article". I didn't, and wouldn't. Also, you didn't need to copy my whole messages back to me. Thank you. Ss112 03:24, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Production

@Sock, on the recent edit that you did, I see that you added the production credits for the album. Though, where are the citations? — JuanGLP (talk + contribs) 23:13, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

@JuanGLP Happy to explain! I got them from the credits listed on Tidal, but per WP:TRACKLIST and WP:PERSONNEL, it isn't necessary to add citations when using an official source for credits. Tidal, Spotify, Apple Music, etc. are considered equivalent to liner notes since they are submitted by the label, and as such don't require a citation. Sock (tock talk) 23:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Ohhh, honestly I am still new on Wikipedia (even though this is my second year), but thank you for explaining! 😊 — JuanGLP (talk + contribs) 23:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Stylisations

@Sock: I would appreciate if you did not disregard hidden notes (and WP:BRD) and did not restore trivial stylisations that make no difference to a reader's understanding of a topic. MOS:CAPS tells us to standardise such stylisations and write them normally; nothing about the importance of writing "stylized in all caps" at the start of an article and disrupting prose. As I said on NunyaBizness's talk page: "The album title has not been capitalized in a variety of sources. From the article: [1], [2], [3], [4]. Even official listings of the tracks don't capitalise them all, like on Record Store Day. This source didn't capitalise "Death". Martinez's store doesn't even consistently capitalise the album title in the tab title: [5]. It's not consistent in all sources. If it were, that would be an argument for keeping it." But it's not consistent and readers should know by this point we don't type EVERYTHING LIKE THIS or need to tell readers so on Wikipedia just because the artist "wants" it like that. Ss112 00:56, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

@Ss112 No idea how WP:BRD is involved given that I didn't revert you or intentionally ignore any discussions (it may surprise you to learn that I don't follow NunyaBizness' talk page or know who they are). Didn't realize the title was inconsistently stylized as you've shown. I just saw it was capitalized on streaming services and assumed the note was leftover from before it was listed, and I genuinely didn't know that "(stylized in all caps) wasn't standard given how often I see it. That was my bad. Sock (tock talk) 21:19, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

@Sock: I wasn't expecting you to be following NunyaBizness's talk page—that's why I copied what I said to them, as it is relevant here, and they also restored the stylisation notes. BRD applies to material as well, not just editors themselves. Ss112 00:12, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Songs

Hi Melanie Martinez I love you Iam seven years old I love your music 2601:402:4580:46C0:A56F:445E:9658:EBBD (talk) 00:58, 23 April 2024 (UTC)