Talk:Polynesian navigation

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2021 and 17 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kyloninjaren. Peer reviewers: 808desiree808, FilthyAtFive.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 06:55, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled[edit]

This page appears to have been copied from http://academickids.com/encyclopedia/index.php/Navigation. The source site makes its contents available through the GFDL. --Butseriouslyfolks 21:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No. Please see WP:MIRROR. In fact, the page you refer to above was copied from Wikipedia, not the other way around, and you can see that in the page history. —Viriditas | Talk 00:56, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Compass[edit]

The fact the Europeans were navigating with a compass is treated as an atrocious crime in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.218.188 (talk) 14:42, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese seem to have been using a magnetic compass for navigation before Europeans, with no critical remarks about this in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.218.188 (talk) 14:51, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dispersal of plants[edit]

"A simpler explanation posits biological dispersal; plants and/or seeds could float across the Pacific without any human contact."

Not likely at all in the case of the sweet potato. Even coconuts have a limited range, but sweet potatoes couldn't make it across the Pacific on their own. ...unsigned comment by User:MacRusgail

Although unlikely, Bulmer and others have suggested that it is possible that the dispersal could be by birds. In a 2008 paper here [1] "The sweet potato is a plant native to the Americas, and its pre-historic presence in Polynesia is a long-standing anthropological problem. Here we use computer-driven drift simulations to model the trajectories of vessels and seed pods departing from a segment of coast between Mexicoand Chile. The experiments demonstrate that accidental drift voyages could have been the mechanism responsible for the pre-historic introduction of the sweet potato from the Americas to Polynesia. While present results do not relate to the feasibility of a transfer by purposeful navigation, they do indicate that this type of voyaging is not required in order to explain the introduction of the crop into Polynesia. The relatively high probability of occurrence and relatively short crossing times of trips from Northern Chile and Peru into the Marquesas, Tuamotu and Society groups are in agreement with the general consensus that this region encompasses the area of original arrival and subsequent dispersal of the sweet potato in Polynesia" Journal of Archaeological Science xx (2007) 1-13 "Modeling the prehistoric arrival of the sweet potato in Polynesia" >Alvaro Montenegro*, Chris Avis, Andrew Weaver. Dougweller (talk) 20:43, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is interesting, how about we restore the sentence starting 'A simpler explanation posits...' to the article with that as a source. Kahuroa (talk) 23:56, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

done Kahuroa (talk) 20:59, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Historical Recreations[edit]

Many of the "facts" about polynesian navigation have been seriously undermined by modern "recreations".Many of these were made with modern tools and are use a mixture of natural and manmade materials.Lewis carried a modern sectant with him to check his postion.One boat had a 8hp Yamaha outboard which was extensively used.Another boat was towed more than half the way to its destination by a modern vessel.Most of the recent boats have carried modern food plus communications and safety equipment.These faked voyages undermine attempts to show the validity of Polynesion navigation methods.One crew tried to keep their faked voyage secret but were sprung when the Nz Airforce took pictures of them at sea being towed.Their lame excuse was they didnt want to be late. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.58.186.217 (talk) 02:13, 20 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Taumako Islands-location[edit]

Taumako Islands are not in the Polynesian area of the Pacific. They are in the Solomons Islands many thousands of Km away. To call the Solomon islands a polynesian outlier is like saying NZ is an outlier of Australia. The Solomons are in Melanesia. However as Polynesians originally migrated through the Melanesian islands about 5,000 years ago some linkage is quite possible but to say that polynesian navigation methods are stil used forgets about the time element. Possible but not likely. Dubious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 01:24, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article does not say that the Solomon Islands are a Polynesian outlier. It says that Taumako Island is a Polynesian outlier within the predominantly Melanesian Solomon Islands. Nurg (talk) 05:23, 29 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

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Stick charts NOT known to be used by Polynesians[edit]

This article includes info and photo of stick chart even though the article says they are NOT known to be used in Polynesia. (This opinion is also expressed in the talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Marshall_Islands_stick_chart in section 'Any citations on when stick charts were developed?'.)

The caption for the photo says Micronesian, though the filename says Polynesian.

I have emboldened the 'not' in the article (otherwise their inclusion in the article makes it look like they were used).

I think this needs further sorting out. FrankSier (talk) 08:26, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relocated, revised and de-emphasised content on this topic and linked to the separate article Marshall Islands stick chart Marshelec (talk) 23:25, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Planning to make additions for school[edit]

This article is really well made already, but my class had it as an option of an article to add to, so I was up for the challenge. I'll be compiling more but this is the start of my bibliography, I plan to use more Vaka Moana: Voyages of the Ancestors; just a warning:,^[1]^[2] --Kyloninjaren (talk) 04:54, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

^ R., Howe, K. Vaka moana: voyages of the ancestors: the discovery and settlement of the Pacific
^ auteur., Thompson, Christina, 1959-. Sea people: the puzzle of Polynesia

@Kyloninjaren: That's an awesome project! I'd love to see what you can add. A big issue that a lot of articles on Polynesia has is that not many of the sources are from Pasifika authors/researchers (which means there's a whole lot of indigenous knowledge that can be found, that very easily boost the quality of info in articles). I've been meaning to read these two books to add as references: Polynesia, 900-1600 by Madi Williams and Vaka: saga of a Polynesian canoe by Thomas Davis (so if you happen to find these, that would be awesome). --Prosperosity (talk) 05:18, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kyloninjaren: Hi,yes, that is a great project. One of the books already cited in the article is: Crowe, Andrew (2018). Pathway of the Birds: The Voyaging Achievements of the Maori and Their Polynesian Ancestors. However, at present, hardly any of the fascinating content in that book is specifically included or referenced. If you can get a copy of this book from your local city library, I recommend it as a great source of additional content for this article. This book is really well put together, and has great photos and illustrations that make it a good read. Marshelec (talk) 06:09, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you both for your reading suggestions. I am definitely going to look for them. On another note, is there any room in this article for the Malama Honua Hokule'a voyage. By that, I mean does anybody think it would fit nicely, because I do. If I'm wrong could someone let me know.Kyloninjaren (talk) 20:26, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Polynesian perspective[edit]

This article takes a hard European POV, with scant contribution or perspective from actual navigators or oral testimony. Polynesian navigators used a wholly different experience & method of moving through the ocean — this is so fascinating! But how dull to have the testimony of European explorers and explanation based on European navigation techniques. The article also refers to Polynesian navigators as total past tense, ancient culture with lost secrets of sailing prowess, when there are still living Polynesian folks who use (and recover) this very navigational method. Where are they, here? This reduplicates a colonial perspective instead of introducing the dramatically different worldview, other ways that knowledge can work, that are inherent in this topic, and really silencing indigenous voices who are the experts here. 2600:4040:6004:1D00:5C9E:7939:BC07:2C4A (talk) 02:50, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can you provide links to reliable sources describing the Polynesian perspective that can be summarized in this article? Cullen328 (talk) 02:54, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] R., Howe, K. Vaka moana: voyages of the ancestors: the discovery and settlement of the Pacific

[2] uteur., Thompson, Christina, 1959-. Sea people: the puzzle of Polynesia

[1]

[2]