Talk:Petrushka (ballet)

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Russian Puppets[edit]

Is the section on Russian puppets really so relavent to the ballet that it has to be included. I feel like this information should be moved to the Petrushka (puppet) page instead.

The Music Itself[edit]

A section on the music itself would be very useful, I think. For example, Petrushka is listed as an example of pandiatonicism in a separate article, but not on the article on Petrushka. Other details would also be helpful. 72.88.227.172 01:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC)anon[reply]

Needs Sources[edit]

The article needs sources. The only source that was cited in the article is a dead link, which I deleted:

Carnegie Hall's Program Notes for the performance on Nov 16th 2004.

—Finell (Talk) 15:54, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shrovetide versus Maslenitsa[edit]

This article, and many other English language discussions of Petrushka (program notes, liner notes, etc.), refer to the Russian fair in the first and fourth scenes as Shrovetide, which is the pre-Lent carnival of England. However, the Russian carnival is called Maslenitsa. Sources on Maslenitsa, although not the WP article, say that Petrushka folk tale was a regular feature of the Maslenitsa festivities. See, e.g., http://www.maslenitsa.com/english/traditions/petrusha.html or http://www.passportmagazine.ru/article/196. Maslenitsa must be the carnival that was the setting for the Petrushka ballet. Therefore, I don't understand the many references to Shrovetide in connection with Petrushka, unless it is just unjustified Anglicanization. Can anyone shed light on this? —Finell (Talk) 16:56, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Unjustified Anglicanization" - hit the nail on the head. "Shrovetide" is the best approximation those stuffy program-note-writers could get to Maslenitsa, which is essentially the same thing. (Linguistic sidenote: "Maslenitsa" from Russian "maslo" - oil/butter. The Eastern Orthodox tradition forbids the consumption of oil or dairy products (among other things - meat, etc.) during Lent. See also Mardi Gras ("Fat Tuesday") and Carnival (Carnal, chili con carne... meat, flesh!)) -IvanP/(болтай) 17:22, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Pulcinella (ballet)[edit]

It appears that this article should be merged with Pulcinella (ballet) as they are about the same ballet under another name. This one appears to be more complete though.IanThal 20:21, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, they are different ballets, different music, different stories, etc. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 16:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discography?[edit]

Is the discography really necessary? The pages on Sacre & The Planets are both struggling with this question. If it's not a complete discography, then it is by definition POV which is not good. I don't think the list serves any purpose, and I'd say let's cut it out. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 16:22, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other versions[edit]

There's a lot of mis-information now in this section, not to mention the fact that there's already a section on the 1947 version earlier in the article. Between that overlapping, the overly-nitpicky stuff (to me) about specific changes in instrumentation in specific passages, and the rather POV stuff about the Three Pieces for solo piano version, this needs an overhaul. I will do so when I can but I'd like to be sure of other opinions before I start what might turn into an edit war. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 22:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wachtel book[edit]

I think that the material by Wachtel has been a welcome addition in an article sorely in need of sources. Credit should go to 129.7.125.18 who brought attention to it.--Atavi 12:07, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wooden legs, dustmen and stuff[edit]

I've always thought the French popular song he quoted, which we reference as "Une jambe de bois", sounds just as much like "My Old Man's a Dustman". I can't believe Lonnie Donegan didn't quote it (possibly unconsciously). Google tells me it's a classic Cockney tune, but it's too similar to the French chanson to be coincidental. Does anyone know more about this? -- Jack of Oz [Talk] 03:04, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

ENGVAR[edit]

An edit made a few hours ago by User:Wikipedantry has called my attention to internal inconsistencies in this article. Wikipedantry changed "English horn" to "cor anglais" at several points, and my initial impulse was to revert this edit as an unexplained change, made contrary to WP:ENGVAR. On closer examination, however, it is evident that there is a mix of national varieties here. One time, "colourful" is found, in another place "color"; date order in D-M-Y (not of course strictly speaking a language-variety trait, but more suggestive of UK and US practice); "-ize" endings are used rather than "-ise" in cases where this can be optional ("characterized" vs. "characterised"), but this, too, is not decisive, since the so-called "Oxford/Times" UK style favours the more old-fashioned "-ize" ending, just as American practice does; spaced en-dashes are used rather than unspaced em-dashes, which once again tilts toward UK usage without being a definitive indication. Checking the edit history (to see if there is an "established style"), I see that the article was created by an anonymous IP editor in New York City, but that same editor simultaneously introduced (on 24 November 2004) the spelling "color" and the DMY date ordering. Of course, wherever possible a "neutral" style should be adopted, but there is no middle ground or alternative choice of words when it comes to "color"/"colour" and, especially, "English horn"/"cor anglais". I suppose what I am looking for here is consensus among the editors active on this page: should it use UK English, or American—or some other variety (Australian, Canadian, etc.) that I have not considered?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:58, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Musical motifs.[edit]

I once read that Stravinsky got some of the melodies from Russian folk tunes. This article is so much about the ballet angle that it misses a proper analysis of the music. The use of unusual time signatures is another topic that needs mentioning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.135.3 (talk) 06:31, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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