Talk:Pericles's Funeral Oration

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Uncatogorized[edit]

could we not get the speech itself here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.136.10.24 (talk • contribs)

well it's quite long, theres about 8 pages of it in Thucydides, (including some of his own commentary). There was a direct link to the extract on a website, rather than posting the whole speech, but that link appears to be broken at the moment. So if anyone could find an external link to use rather than typing/copying the WHOLE text into the entry, that would probably be better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.136.45 (talk • contribs)

goo.gl/M8S5W, would that suffice as a direct link to the speech? also, one of the quotes in the article (the one footnoted as 17) I am having great difficulty finding in the actual speech, and I think it may not exist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.231.108.199 (talk) 10:10, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't its similarity to The Gettysburg Address be mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.248.255 (talk • contribs)

I pasted in the chunk straight from Gettysburg Address--Konstable 13:24, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thucydides' use of sources[edit]

The article includes the following statement: 'Thucydides was extremely meticulous in his documentation, and records the varied certainty of his sources each time'. This seems to me incorrect. In Book I Thucydides makes a famous general statement about the difficulties he has encountered in reporting speeches; however, he certainly doesn't comment on his sources or 'documentation' for individual speeches. The statement in the article quoted above is thus in my view misleading. Chronarch (talk) 09:48, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

attribution[edit]

It was not James McPherson who showed the parallels between the Pericles' Funeral Oration and the Gettysburg Address. In the New York Review of Books McPherson reviews the book,"Lincoln at Gettysburg: The Words That Remade America" by Garry Wills. It is Wills who makes the parallels. I am new to editing Wikipedia, and– unsure of the proper way of doing it, but it should be done. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bonafidegenius (talk • contribs) 01:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Well, you can just jump in and change it, nothing more to it :-) I put this in, but I actually don't know anything about this - I copied most of the paragraph about Gettysburg from the Gettysburg Address article.--Konstable 22:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've made the change for you.--Konstable 22:57, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added a reference to the Wills book itself. Wills doesn't say Lincoln made deliberate use of the Pericles oration, though the longer, more florid speech by Edward Everett did. Jonathanwallace (talk) 13:01, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

New edits[edit]

I've started work on beefing this articles up. I have given it sections to rationalize the content and will start going through them. Additionally, since there is a wikisource link, I don't think we need citations that link to Perseus.com. Any objections to removing these?Jim 21:34, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Um, I'm pretty sure the translation at Wikisource is a copyvio, so I don't think we should even link to it. --Akhilleus (talk) 21:38, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, Warner's translation is Copyright 1954. But I think a better option than the rather clumsy Perseus links is personal translations, which I could do and donate to Wikisource. Or we could go with the Crawley translation, which is perfectly useable in respect of copyright, since it was published in 1874. Jim 22:37, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Repeated Quote[edit]

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"; Lincoln, like Pericles, exhorts the survivors to emulate the deeds of the dead, "It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the great task remaining before us"; and finally, Lincoln, like Pericles, contrasts the efficacy of words and deeds, "The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract...The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here." How can this be rewritten to avoid using this quote twice? Jesterjester (talk) 23:15, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the repeated quote. I'm not sure why I didn't do it myself a year ago. Jesterjester (talk) 02:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not a user here, but I just thought I'd mention something that I found to be irritating in the article. The portion that compares the Gettysburg Address to the Funeral Oration repeatedly uses the phrase, "Lincoln, like Pericles...". This seems a little overbearing, and when I read it I feel like I'm being cudgeled over the head with comparisons between the two. If someone could rewrite, or even remove the section on the Gettysburg Address because it doesn't seem entirely relevant, I think this article would benefit substantially.

-Anonymous, 15:45, 16 August 2012 (EST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.212.173 (talk)

Ibid note[edit]

I've removed the "ibids are bad" notice, since there seems little point in chiding the reader for something the wikimedia software does itself.Mephistopheles (talk) 14:02, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Date of speech[edit]

An unsourced edit by IP user 199 moved the date of the speech back to the earlier "First Pelopennesian war". I reverted this edit because all the sources I can find say the funeral oration took place in 431 BC. Jonathanwallace (talk) 12:57, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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British Columbia?[edit]

Why is British Columbia mentioned in the opening description? Themario head (talk) 14:24, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like an error with the template logic. It seems that either the year of the oration or the time range for the Peloponnesian War was confused with British Columbia due to the shared usage of the BC acronym. I’d fix it myself, but I don’t know how, and I’m not sure if this is actually an intentional element. Themario head (talk) 14:34, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An IP user replaced Template:BCE (the BCE dating article) with Template:BC (the British Columbia flag). Dralwi k|^{Have a Chat} 21:26, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article always used BC until illegally converted by this disgraceful edit, with a mendacious edit summary ("cleaned up..."), back it goes to BC, per WP:ERA. Johnbod (talk) 21:56, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]