Talk:Penn Valley, Pennsylvania

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Question[edit]

Why does this article say it's in Philadelphia, when the title says otherwise? Enochlau 23:11, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, I will reword this. Esnaz (talk) 04:21, 2 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this place exists? 207.13.211.199 18:26, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It does exist, although it is technically part of the Town of Narberth (not the borough). Esnaz (talk) 04:21, 2 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No such DISTINCT place exists- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.4.24.34 (talk) 19:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cannonballs in William Penn's Coat of Arms? Really?[edit]

Wasn't Penn a pacifist? Anyway the idea that his coat of arms contained cannonballs was a head-scratcher to me so I looked it up. The three round things are NOT cannonballs. I think you can correctly say they are either "roundels argent" (meaning "white roundels", "white circles" (filled in, solid, not outlines) or "plates". There's a shorthand for roundels that enables the blazon to omit the color. If they're or/gold/yellow, they can just be called "bezants" (after a Byzantine coin), which are then, by definition, gold. If they are green/vert, they can be called "pommes" ("apples"), as the default characteristics of apples in medieval England were green and not very sweet, used for cider and cooking, rarely served as whole or cut-up raw fruits. Some of these blazons imply a depiction of a two-dimensional circular object (coins) of that color, while others imply a depiction of a three-dimensional spherical object of the color (apples). I don't know if "plates" means round pieces of steel affixed to things (such as armor) to make those things more impenetrable, or the things that you eat off of, nor whether the color is as of white china (seems a bit early, for the inception of heraldry in Europe, to have any porcelain china at all, let alone white) or the color of pewter. ("Argent" is often ambiguous between "white" and "silver-colored" as many metals are--"Often", but not "always". Some authorities say that the white horse that was formerly on the coat of arms of the U.K. is "white" and not "silver" ("argent"), and some say that the labels of variously-numbered points used to differentiate coats of arms of Royal Princes in the U.K. should be "white", not "silver" ("argent"), because they refer to an actual ornament on a horse that was made of white (not metallic) material. But in any case those three things are not three cannonballs.)2600:1700:6759:B000:1C64:8308:33BC:E2D6 (talk) 21:07, 20 August 2023 (UTC)Christopher Lawrence Simpson[reply]

It is Penn's family coat of arms, not merely his own. It was used by Penns since the 13th century. 98.248.84.55 (talk) 06:05, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2600:1700:6759:B000:1C64:8308:33BC:E2D6 and 98.248.84.55 Per the Lower Merion Historical Society [1] the markers do include cannonballs. It is separate from the Penn family shield and the markers were commissioned by the Mutual Assurance Fire Company of Philadelphia and not Penn. Pennsylvania2 (talk) 13:49, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You are mistaken on several points.

The photograph plainly shows a historical marker, not a milestone.
The milestone at 901 Montgomery Ave in PV is on the ground next to a former bank office, 17 miles from the landing site.
The Historical Society source says that the Penn shield is on the back of the stone, not the top (the latter being unlikely considering its shape). The back is not visible on Google Maps so I will assume that that much is true.
Although it was not commissioned by Penn, it was commissioned to honor him.
The circles have been described as cannonballs honoring Admiral Penn's victory at Jamaica, and maybe Admiral Penn even claimed as much, but it has been appropriately dismissed as legend ("Penn's Mile-stones") given that Penns were using the shield (legitimately or not) centuries earlier. They are roundels, a common heraldic device without any particular representative meaning.

98.248.84.55 (talk) 19:33, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

98.248.84.55 Unless you can provide a source saying otherwise, we can't use original research. The LM Historical Society source is the only source cited and that is the one which information will be used. Pennsylvania2 (talk) 16:40, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I did give a source, and there is no obligation to accept claims that presume time travel merely because they have appeared in print. 98.248.84.55 (talk) 05:04, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]