Talk:Peer-to-peer lending

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Merge[edit]

Should this be merged with Person-to-person lending? RSimione 06:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes - I fleshed out the Person-to-person lending article a month or two ago - didn't notice there was a separate page for "Peer to Peer Lending". They're fundamentally/conceptually similar enough to handle in one page (which is already extant in the "Person to Person" article). Seconded, throwing up a merger proposition. Social_lending, P2p_lending, and P2PLoans (?) all already redirect to Person-to-person_lending as well. 75.66.89.23 (talk) 01:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No - In 2008, the peer-to-peer lending article was merged with and redirected to the person-to-person lending article. Now it turns out that 'peer-to-peer lending' has established itself as the more widely used term for the concept and 'person-to-person lending' is the only term in the Wikipedia peer-to-peer category (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Peer-to-peer) that does not use the "peer" word. I am therefore reverting the redirect from 2008, making peer-to-peer lending as the main article, redirecting the person-to-person lending article to the and peer-to-peer lending article and updating the content with more recent references, developments and stats (after no opposition to this suggestion was given on the person-to-person lending article talk page). Sigma0 1 (talk) 21:18, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Should this page be merged with Peer to Peer Investing? The two are almost identical. Benjamin (talk) 09:08, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Removed[edit]

The follow section was removed on the ground of being trivia: Jonpatterns (talk) 12:01, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Micropatronage orgs[edit]

Can Kickstarter be mentioned, as well as Spot.us ? KVDP (talk) 08:16, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Do they facilitate any P2P lending or is it only equity based investing? Both seem to be forms of P2P investing, not its P2P lending subset. 13:09, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Disputed[edit]

Team,

This article is entering Disputed territory and Edit war territory.

Some editors are making changes that do not conform to statutory and regulatory standards of Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Lending. Most citations are too new to be relevant. As the developer of the world's first peer-to-peer/crypto/secret/private finance system with both regulated and unregulated modules; first brought on line to serve the public on April 9, 2005 (source: www.bitmortgage.org); and continuously registered to the National Standard Level (for Quality Management Systems) to at least 119 countries on May 9, 2008 until present day (source: www.mqcc.org - the country network administrator) - you can consider me as a pretty good person as Subject-matter expert.

  • 1 - As a case in point; "Crowdlending" is NOT Peer-to-Peer lending.
  • 2 - Secondly, wholesale re-editing by Wikipedian's is frowned upon; particularly when different view points are "deleted entirely".
  • 3 - One editor who clearly does not understand terms including "ontology", described the article as a "convoluted mess" and his/her/it's solution is a "wholesale change" to the article. This is neither fair, reasonable nor conforms to Wikipedia standards for editors. If one editor has functional difficulty with comprehension, this one editor's shortcoming must not be ascribed to ALL editors.
  • 4 - Mis-cited, or regulatory incorrect sources are being cited; as an example, this citation:

"Bradley, Christine; Burhouse, Susan; Gratton, Heather; Miller, Rae-Ann (2009). "Alternative Financial Services: A Primer". FDIC Quarterly. 3 (Q1). Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. Retrieved July 30, 2012" is no longer applicable because the "definition of P2P" as cited no longer conforms to the definition of the United States regulatory regime. P2P as described is now referred to as "crowdlending" or "platform lending", and not P2P.

  • 5 - "Country" experiences are not as much as a concern as the non-country headings (sections).
  • 6 - At this point, the Talk Page is not used; let's start using this talk page for Dispute resolution.


Pursuant to Wikipedia policy, the prior omitted Content that must be reinstated - and not be subject to an "Edit war" includes the following: Reference: 08:47, 3 July 2018‎ Version of the Article

Generally accepted definitions & character

According to some finance regulators, while a legal definition of Peer-to-Peer P2P Lending is not yet in existence[2], the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) [3], the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO)[4] the Canadian Intellectual Property Office (CIPO)[5] and the United States Government Accountability Office (GAO)[6] acknowledge that Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Lending (synonymous with the term Person-to-Person Lending[7], "Private Lending", "Cryptolending"), also known as P2P Lending [the obverse of Peer-to-Peer Investing, "Private Investing", "Cryptoinvesting"; also known as P2P Investing] is the "practice of lending/investing or borrowing money from one private individual (or person) [in the role of "lender", or "private lender[8]" or "P2P Lender" or "cryptolender"] to another private individual (or person) [in the role of "borrower", or "private borrower" or "P2P borrower" or "cryptoborrower"] [9] [10] [11].

While individual or private corporate participants in “Peer-to-Peer P2P, Private & Crypto-” financial activities are not subject to 3rd party disclosure[12]; “Peer-to-Peer P2P, Private & Crypto-” Lending (or the obverse: “Peer-to-Peer P2P, Private & Crypto-” Investing) transactions are classified as either "regulated" or "non-regulated" by government oversight[13]. Regulators acknowledge that “Peer-to-Peer P2P, Private & Crypto-” Lending/“Peer-to-Peer P2P, Private & Crypto-” Investing transactions may be originated (created) either directly through direct advertising by the P2P Lender (Investor) [14]; or, via an intermediary (a licensed or unlicensed broker)[15] or, via a technology platform[16]. 

Principle of synonymity[17]

In accordance with dictionary and thesaurus definitions, the following terms are synonymous with another:

  • Peer-to-Peer P2P [18] (for example: peer-to-peer or P2P lender, peer-to-peer or P2P investor or peer-to-peer or P2P borrower)
  • Private[19] (for example: private lender, private investor or private borrower)
  • Crypto[20] (for example: cryptolender, cryptoinvestor or cryptoborrower); unlike the other terms, when the adjective "crypto" is applied, it is not followed by a space

North american industry classification system hierarchy[21] [22] [23] Sector: 

  Finance

Attribute: 

  Peer-to-Peer/Private/Crypto Finance - The adjectives of "peer-to-peer", "private" or "crypto" are applied to describe the attribution of being secretive or non-public.

Sub-sector (Activity): 

  Peer-to-Peer/Private/Crypto Credit Intermediation
  Peer-to-Peer/Private/Crypto Securities and other financial investment

Industry (Service or Product): 

  Peer-to-Peer/Private/Crypto Mortgages
  Peer-to-Peer/Private/Crypto Loans
  Peer-to-Peer/Private/Crypto Currency
  Peer-to-Peer/Private/Crypto Securities
  Peer-to-Peer/Private/Crypto Other assets/liabilities/equity/debt

Other countries or jurisdictions or economic zones have their own equivalent classes[24].

Priority, systems architecture, reference architecture, ontology, reference implementation, international standards benchmark, finance regulator & regulatory recognition

Priority, systems architecture, reference architecture, ontology, reference implementation

The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) [25], the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO)[26] the Canadian Intellectual Property Office (CIPO)[27] and their international peer intellectual property organizations (member states)[28] incontestably [the word "incontestable" is legislatively defined, pursuant to Canada's (a WIPO Member State[29]) Federal Trade-marks Act R.S.C., 1985, c. T-13)[30]] recognize (pursuant to international treaties and conventions[31]) that the world's first commercially deployed peer-to-peer P2P finance network (also known as a "private finance network" or "cryptofinance network") trading in both government regulated (regulated) [including the world's first Peer-to-Peer P2P (private or crypto-) regulated mortgage instrument, registered as the trademarked brand: BITMORTGAGE®[32] [33] [34]] and non-government regulated (non-regulated) peer-to-peer P2P (private and crypto-) financial instruments is named PrivateLender.Org: Canada's Private Lending Network®[35] which was registered with the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers ICANN.org)[36] and activated for global public use on April 9, 2005 [37].

The systems architecture, reference architecture, ontology (state and dynamic[38] [39]) and reference implementation related to the trade of both regulated and non-regulated peer-to-peer P2P (private and crypto-) financial instruments was first identified in a proprietary dissertation entitled: “Binary Digit Debt: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Debt System”; a system built on seminal blockchain technology developed by Anoop Bungay in the early 2000s[40] - at least 3 years, 4 months and 10 days prior (from the date that PrivateLender.org: Canada's Private Lending Network® was activated)[41] [42] to the date "Satoshi Nakamoto" registered the internet domain Bitcoin.org [43] (pursuant to registration with the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers ICANN.org)[44]; and at least 3 years, 6 months and 10 days prior to the date "Satoshi Nakamoto" published the white paper "Bitcoin: a Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" in the Metzger, Dowdeswell & Co. LLC[45] “Cryptography Mailing List” on Friday, October 31 at 14:10:00 EDT in 2008[46]; and at least 3 years, 7 months and 30 days prior to the date "Satoshi Nakamoto" published the announcement of the release of the Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System computer program named: “Bitcoin v0.1 released” on Thursday January 8 at 14:27:40 EST in 2009.[47]

The term "Private Lending Pyramid™" was coined by Anoop Bungay and published during a presentation of peers at Simon Fraser University on December 7, 2009[48]. The Private Lending Pyramid™ functions as a trademark and source identifier in order to distinguish itself [pursuant to United States Patent and Trademark legislation[49]] from the general systems architecture that describes the relationships and hierarchy between Private Lenders (synonymous with "Peer-to-Peer P2P Lenders") and four other capital sources [developed on the basis of Ontology "ontological principles"]: "Banks"; "Trust Companies, other Institutional Lenders"; "General marketplace: brokers, professionals, media"; "Friends, family, co-workers, generic investors", "Private Lenders"[50].

International standards benchmark Continuously from May 9, 2008 until at least May 9, 2018[51], the systems architecture, reference architecture along with the ontology and reference implementation contained in the "Binary Digit Debt: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Debt System" body of work became the international benchmark for trust and safety in Peer-to-Peer P2P finance (Private Finance and Cryptofinance) transactions through registration to the Geneva-based International Organization for Standardization (ISO)[52] ISO 9001:2000, ISO 9001:2008 and ISO 9001:2015; the international standards for Quality Management Systems, and the National Standard for 119 countries[53].

Specifically, the ISO 9001:2015 Quality Management Systems Standard serves as the National Standard for over 119 countries [54] including: Australia (AU[55]), Canada (CA), China (CN) United Kingdom (UK), United States of America (USA). Registration to an ISO 9001 standard provides at-a-glance confidence to legislators, regulators, regulatees, customers, prospective customers, stakeholders, interested parties[56] and consumers, "that they can have confidence that their products are safer, reliable and of good quality"[57]. 

Government, finance regulator & regulatory recognition (international, national & regional)

With over 10 years of continuous registration to the International Standard [58]; International, National and Regional finance regulators in at least 119 member countries[59] of the International Organization of Standardization - which rely on International Standards for market efficacy and consumer safety pursuant to in-country legislation, namely:

  • USA: National Technology Transfer and Advancement Act (Public Law 104-113)[60]
  • Canada: Cabinet Directive on Regulatory Management; Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Canada, 2012[61]
  • United Kingdom (UK): By Royal Charter[62]: British Standards Institution
    King George IV: Westminster (Parliament of the United Kingdom), 22 April, 1929; original Charter.
    Elizabeth II: Westminster (Parliament of the United Kingdom), 5 November, 1931; 1968, 1974; Supplemental Charters.

Recognize that PrivateLender.org: Canada’s Private Lending Network® - as the world's first and only peer-to-peer P2P, Private and Cryptofinance system with over 10 years of continuous National and International standards-based financial operation - serves as the benchmark standard for “better, safer and more efficient methods and products” [63] in the domain of peer-to-peer, private and cryptofinance.

Regulatory Organizations (or their member entities) that are affected by National and International Standards-based peer-to-peer P2P, private or cryptofinance include:

  • International Organization of Securities Commissions (IOSCO)[64]
  • The World Federation of Exchanges (WFE)[65]
  • Bank for International Settlements (BIS)[66]
  • North American Securities Administrators Association (NASAA)[67]
  • G20[68]
  • G7

Confusion between "Peer-to-Peer, Crowdfunding and Marketplace" Finance Global regulators including Australia, UK and USA regulators recognize that Peer-to-Peer activities are distinct from what is called "crowdfunding" and "Marketplace lending"; based upon the Distinctiveness/Descriptiveness Continuum (DDC) principles established by the United States Patent and Trademark Office [69] which includes: ingredient, quality, characteristic, function, feature, purpose, or use of the specified goods or services.[70]. 

Australia regulator (ASIC)

Applying the principles of DDC, Australian regulators namely, the Australian Securities & Investments Commission (ASIC) [71] recognize that many online platforms that claim to be "peer-to-peer" in quality, characteristic or function are not; viz.: "Although some forms of marketplace lending have often been referred to as 'peer-to-peer lending' or 'P2P', we consider 'marketplace lending' more appropriately describes these lending arrangements, and encourage the use of this term"[72]. 

UK regulator (FCA)

The Financial Conduct Authority of UK (FCA) [73] also acknowledges that when organizations raise funds from the public, in a pooled manner, the appropriate overarching terminology is "crowdfunding"[74]. The FCA refers to online platforms for investing not as "Peer-to-Peer P2P Lending platforms", but rather, "crowdfunding platforms" [75]. Further, FCA expressly states [in its 2014 Policy Paper entitled: "The FCA’s regulatory approach to crowdfunding over the internet, and the promotion of non-readily realisable securities by other media Feedback to CP13/13 and final rules"[76]] that the appropriate term for firms who operate or plan to operate "P2P" platforms is "loan-based crowdfunding platforms"[77]. The FCA further refers to the industry as a whole, as the "regulated loan-based crowdfunding sector"[78] 

USA GAO and regulator (SEC®)

The USA Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC®)[79] define online lending platforms as "crowdfunding"[80], not Peer-to-Peer P2P Lending, because of the presence of an intermediary, namely the "platform" which issues securities to an investor in exchange for investment capital. The intermediary issues the loan, not the investor; viz: "lenders do not make loans directly to borrowers. Rather, lenders purchase payment-dependent notes that correspond to the selected borrower loans [81]". The US Government Accountability Office (GAO) [82] confirms that there is a greater degree of risk associated with online platforms because "lenders have no direct recourse to the borrowers to obtain loan payments, so their returns depend on the success of the platforms and their collection agents in obtaining repayments from borrowers."[83] The inference is apparent, namely: If the success of an investment is based upon a third party, then it is not a "peer-to-peer" investment, since the two individuals have no direct relationship with one another.

Anoop Bungay (talk) 14:18, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Gareth Vaughan (April 24, 2014). "Banks' personal loans and credit card business in the sights of peer-to-peer lending applicant Harmoney". interest.co.nz. Retrieved May 14, 2014.
  2. ^ http://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/financial-services/marketplace-lending/marketplace-lending-peer-to-peer-lending-products/#advertising>
  3. ^ http://www.wipo.int/portal/en/
  4. ^ https://www.uspto.gov/
  5. ^ http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/Home
  6. ^ https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-613
  7. ^ ibid.
  8. ^ http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/viewTrademark?id=1391367&lang=eng&tab=reg
  9. ^ http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn77561927&docId=OOA20081215142808#docIndex=1&page=5
  10. ^ http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn77561927&docId=OOA20081215142808#docIndex=1&page=5
  11. ^ http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn86822173&docId=OOA20160314170242#docIndex=12&page=1
  12. ^ http://www.privatelender.org What is a peer-to-peer P2P, private or cryptolender?
  13. ^ https://mqcc.org/PrivateLender.org-Global-Private-Lending-Network/
  14. ^ https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/understanding-mortgages/Pages/mortgage-application.html
  15. ^ ibid
  16. ^ https://www.gao.gov/assets/330/320693.pdf
  17. ^ http://www.dictionary.com/browse/synonymity
  18. ^ http://www.dictionary.com/browse/peer-to-peer?s=t
  19. ^ http://www.dictionary.com/browse/private?s=t
  20. ^ http://www.dictionary.com/browse/crypto?s=t
  21. ^ https://www.census.gov/eos/www/naics/
  22. ^ http://www.p2pla.org A Brief History of Modern Peer-to-Peer P2P and Private Lending in Canada & the World - Anoop Bungay
  23. ^ http://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p3VD.pl?Function=getVD&TVD=307532&CVD=307533&CPV=52&CST=01012017&CLV=1&MLV=5
  24. ^ https://www.ons.gov.uk/methodology/classificationsandstandards/ukstandardindustrialclassificationofeconomicactivities
  25. ^ http://www.wipo.int/portal/en/
  26. ^ https://www.uspto.gov/
  27. ^ http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/Home
  28. ^ http://www.wipo.int/members/en/
  29. ^ http://www.wipo.int/members/en/details.jsp?country_id=29
  30. ^ http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/T-13/FullText.html
  31. ^ http://www.wipo.int/export/sites/www/about-ip/en/iprm/pdf/ch5.pdf
  32. ^ https://mqcc.org/BITMORTGAGE-Registered-Trademark-and-Brand-of-Peer-to-Peer-(&-Private)-Real-Estate-Finance-and-Peer-to-Peer-Electronic-Cash-(Cryptocurrency)-Products-and-Services
  33. ^ http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/viewTrademark?id=1823238&lang=eng&tab=reg
  34. ^ http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn87339123&docId=ORC20170827185131#docIndex=0&page=1
  35. ^ http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/viewTrademark?id=1391367&lang=eng&tab=reg
  36. ^ https://www.icann.org/
  37. ^ https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name=PRIVATELENDER.ORG
  38. ^ http://ontology.buffalo.edu/smith/articles/Functions-in-BFO.pdf
  39. ^ http://salmapatel.co.uk/academia/the-research-paradigm-methodology-epistemology-and-ontology-explained-in-simple-language
  40. ^ https://mqcc.org/BITMORTGAGE-Registered-Trademark-and-Brand-of-Peer-to-Peer-(&-Private)-Real-Estate-Finance-and-Peer-to-Peer-Electronic-Cash-(Cryptocurrency)-Products-and-Services
  41. ^ https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name=PRIVATELENDER.ORG
  42. ^ https://planetcalc.com/274/
  43. ^ https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name=bitcoin.org
  44. ^ https://www.icann.org/
  45. ^ http://www.metzdowd.com/
  46. ^ http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2008-October/014810.html
  47. ^ http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2009-January/014994.html
  48. ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olCbcAvm_Aw
  49. ^ https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TFSR/current#/current/sec-be547ab1-b587-4b44-abc6-3ca12e56141d.html
  50. ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olCbcAvm_Aw
  51. ^ https://twitter.com/mqccglobal
  52. ^ https://www.iso.org/home.html
  53. ^ https://www.iso.org/members.html
  54. ^ https://www.iso.org/members.html
  55. ^ https://www.iso.org/iso-3166-country-codes.html
  56. ^ https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/archive/pdf/en/casco_guide.pdf
  57. ^ https://www.iso.org/benefits-of-standards.html
  58. ^ https://twitter.com/mqccglobal
  59. ^ https://www.iso.org/members.html
  60. ^ https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-104publ113/content-detail.html
  61. ^ https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/federal-regulatory-management/guidelines-tools/cabinet-directive-regulatory-management.html
  62. ^ https://privycouncil.independent.gov.uk/royal-charters/chartered-bodies/
  63. ^ https://www.scc.ca/en/about-scc
  64. ^ https://www.iosco.org/
  65. ^ https://www.world-exchanges.org/home/
  66. ^ https://www.bis.org/about/index.htm
  67. ^ http://www.nasaa.org/
  68. ^ https://www.g20.org/
  69. ^ https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/current#/current/TMEP-1200d1e6980.html
  70. ^ https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/current#/result/TMEP-1200d1e7074.html?q=quality%2C%20feature%2C%20function%2C%20or%20characteristic&ccb=on&ncb=off&icb=off&fcb=off&ver=current&syn=adj&results=compact&sort=relevance&cnt=10&index=1
  71. ^ http://asic.gov.au/
  72. ^ http://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/financial-services/marketplace-lending/marketplace-lending-peer-to-peer-lending-products/#advertising
  73. ^ https://www.fca.org.uk/
  74. ^ https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/crowdfunding
  75. ^ https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/policy/ps16-08.pdf
  76. ^ https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/policy/ps14-04.pdf
  77. ^ ibid.
  78. ^ https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/discussion/dp-15-06-innovative-finance-isas.pdf
  79. ^ https://www.sec.gov/
  80. ^ https://www.sec.gov/rules/final/2015/33-9974.pdf
  81. ^ Page 13 https://www.gao.gov/assets/330/320693.pdf
  82. ^ https://www.gao.gov/index.html
  83. ^ https://www.gao.gov/assets/330/320693.pdf

Promotional namedropping and link spam - removed[edit]

Mentions of notable or noteworthy platforms and other organizations should be based on independent reliable sources. I have removed several cases of promotional namedropping that were either completely unsourced or insufficiently sourced. Editors with a conflict of interest are welcome to make suggestions on this talkpage, but should not edit such articles themselves to promote their companies. GermanJoe (talk) 14:15, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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