This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Opera, a group writing and editing Wikipedia articles on operas, opera terminology, opera composers and librettists, singers, designers, directors and managers, companies and houses, publications and recordings. The project discussion page is a place to talk about issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!OperaWikipedia:WikiProject OperaTemplate:WikiProject OperaOpera articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject New Zealand, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New Zealand and New Zealand-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New ZealandWikipedia:WikiProject New ZealandTemplate:WikiProject New ZealandNew Zealand articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
This article was created or improved during the Singers, songwriters, songs by women edit-a-thon hosted by the Women in Red project in June 2018. The editor(s) involved may be new; please assume good faith regarding their contributions before making changes.Women in RedWikipedia:WikiProject Women in RedTemplate:WikiProject Women in RedWomen in Red articles
A fact from Patricia Payne (mezzo-soprano) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 July 2018 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Please initiate a new request to discuss the possibility of a different disambiguator, as necessary. Dekimasuよ! 08:01, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Patricia Payne (mezzo-soprano) → Patricia Payne (singer) – I believe a full discussion is the best way to go because this article is currently on the Main Page as a DYK. The current disambiguation by voice type is too WP:PRECISE. WP:CONCISE is apparently preferred by WP:NCDAB. The main Patricia Payne is active in the film industry, not music, so the proposed disambiguation seems to be clear enough. Vycl1994 (talk) 19:24, 21 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose she's a mezzo, we don't call opera singers just (singer). See other articles In ictu oculi (talk) 22:39, 21 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – per the policy WP:TITLE, which is, in a nutshell: "Article titles should be recognizable, concise, natural, precise, and consistent." -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:11, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - (singer) is too general. (contralto) - see below - would work, but why change? Most mezzos also sing alto parts, some also soprano, - whatever voice type in the dab suggests a classical singer, a trained professional, while (singer) could be any. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:46, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Gerda Arendt, there aren't any other singers with that name on Wikipedia, so I don't see how it's too general. The purpose of an article title is to disambiguate, not inform. jamacfarlane (talk) 20:48, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
On second thoughts and unrelated to this request: after reviewing her repertoire and the sources mentioned overleaf, her main voice type seems to have been contralto, so maybe the article should be moved to Patricia Payne (contralto)? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:31, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose unless you have a source to say she's more notable as a contralto than a mezzo. However, I don't see how you can say moving the article to somewhere else is unrelated to this request. In my view, this suggestion should have been made as part of the discussion here. jamacfarlane (talk) 19:14, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Unless you have sources to say she's more notable as a mezzo. Opera Scotland calls her a mezzo, and then lists her contralto roles. Just like this article, many sources describe her as mezzo/contralto. Kutsch & Riemens describe her as de:Alt (Stimmlage), the German equivalent of contralto. Almost all of the roles listed in her article are contralto roles. How this article is disambiguated doesn't matter much (the text and categories are more important), but it's not clear that "(mezzo-soprano)" is the best fitting term. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:15, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have a source other than Opera Scotland. I think as the current title uses "(mezzo-soprano)" the burden is on those supporting a move to identify sources, but if she's equally notable as both, then I would be content with "(opera singer)" or (the inelegant but ensorsed by WP:NCPDAB) "(musician)". jamacfarlane (talk) 04:16, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for (musician), - the one time. Typically we singers are not counted among the musicians, "the singers and musicians" is a typically colloquial phrase. I'd leave as it is. We would disambiguate (contralto) for exclusive singers of that voice type, which she is not. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:57, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
