Talk:Owen Benjamin

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Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2024[edit]

Please change the following text in the Owen Benjamin article:

Remove: "Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith (born May 24, 1980), known professionally as Owen Benjamin, is an American conspiracy theorist and internet personality known for promoting white supremacy, antisemitism, homophobia, and neo-Nazism."

Replace with: 

Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith (born May 24, 1980), professionally known as Owen Benjamin, is an American free thinker, comedian, established actor, family man, and farmer. He has garnered attention as an internet personality for his thought-provoking perspectives. Benjamin, who values independent thinking, humor, and his commitment to his family and farm, has been involved in various forms of entertainment, including stand-up comedy and minor acting roles in mainstream film and television between 2008 and 2015. Nhaselton (talk) 19:12, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Furthermore, I have reverted your edit that introduced this change, as it introduced no new sources and misrepresents the ones currently on the page. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 19:40, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2024[edit]

Please remove the statement about repeatedly referring to an NPR host as a "child molester" as the source of this quote has been deleted and its reliability is heresay. Todaystomsawyer1981 (talk) 15:11, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Both sources for that claim are still live. If you're having trouble accessing them, there are also archived copies of both sources provided in the references.
If you are referring to the tweet being deleted, that's not particularly material; at least two reliable sources reported on him making it, which suggests it's noteworthy enough to include. Deleting it after the fact doesn't change that. If you are concerned that two reliable sources independently decided to fabricate an identical tweet that Benjamin never made, that certainly stretches the limits of believability, but you're also welcome to look up the link in an archive platform like the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine if you would like to satisfy your own curiosity as to whether it ever existed. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 15:36, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2024 (2)[edit]

Dear Wikipedia Editors,

I am writing to propose a revision to the introductory section of the Owen Benjamin biography to ensure adherence to Wikipedia's guidelines on neutrality and verifiability.

Current text: "Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith (born May 24, 1980), known professionally as Owen Benjamin, is an American conspiracy theorist and internet personality known for promoting white supremacy, antisemitism, homophobia, and neo-Nazism.[1][2][3][4][5][6] He was a stand-up comedian and actor who had minor roles in mainstream film and television between 2008 and 2015.

In the late 2010s, Benjamin began expressing more extreme political views. In 2019, he was banned from several mainstream social media platforms for violations of their policies, including Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.[7][8][9] These included antisemitic remarks, homophobic remarks, and calling Barack Obama a "nigger".[5][8][10]"

Proposed revision: "Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith (born May 24, 1980), known professionally as Owen Benjamin, is an American comedian and actor. He gained initial recognition through stand-up comedy and had minor roles in mainstream film and television between 2008 and 2015.

In the late 2010s, Benjamin's public statements and political views became more controversial. He has been the subject of scrutiny and criticism for expressing viewpoints that have been characterized as promoting white supremacy, antisemitism, homophobia, and neo-Nazism by various sources.[11][2][3][4][5][12] Benjamin's remarks have been described as offensive and have resulted in his removal from several mainstream social media platforms, including Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube in 2019, due to policy violations.[7][8][9] These included antisemitic remarks, homophobic remarks, and calling Barack Obama a "nigger".[5][8][10]"

This revision aims to provide a more balanced and neutral representation of Owen Benjamin's career and controversies, ensuring factual accuracy and compliance with Wikipedia's content policies. The original references were preserved.

Thank you for considering this edit request.

Sincerely, Todaystomsawyer1981 (talk) 16:50, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia policy requires that articles reflect how reliable sources describe the subject, in proportion to how they are described in those sources. The current sources overwhelmingly describe Benjamin as a conspiracy theorist who promotes the stated viewpoints, and it does not appear you have introduced any new sources that present a different viewpoint.
It might be helpful if you could clarify for the person reviewing your edit request whether you a) believe that the current wording does not reflect the existing sources (and provide specifics as to why), or b) believe that other sources exist that present Benjamin primarily as a comedian/etc. rather than a conspiracy theorist/provocateur (and provide these sources). GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 19:53, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your reply.
The following is an updated proposed revision with additional sources. References of "Twitter" are updated to "X". Named citations are taken from the article's source. I included a reference to conspiracy theories. The structure and readability was improved by summarizing controversial viewpoints and removing a specific quote from the introduction. The quote refers to using a racist slur. Retain the quote by moving it to the Views section or a separate section. Moving the quote to a separate section is outside the scope of this edit.:
"Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith (born May 24, 1980), known professionally as Owen Benjamin, is an American comedian and actor.[13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20] He gained initial recognition through stand-up comedy and had roles in mainstream film and television between 2008 and 2015 including, The House Bunny, Jack and Jill, All's Faire in Love, and Sullivan & Son'.[21][22][13]
In the late 2010s, Benjamin's public statements and political views became more controversial, drawing scrutiny and criticism from various sources. Some viewpoints attributed to him have been characterized as promoting conspiracy theories, white supremacy, antisemitism, homophobia, and neo-Nazism by certain critics and commentators.[23][2][3][4][5][24] These remarks have been described as offensive and have led to his removal from mainstream comedy engagements and several social media platforms, including X (formally known as Twitter), Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube, due to policy violations.[7][8][9][25][2][5][8][10]
As of 2023, Benjamin continues to perform standup comedy and remains active on X and various streaming platforms.[17][23]"
This revision maintains its original aims to provide a more balanced and neutral representation of Owen Benjamin's career and controversies. The inclusion of Benjamin's initial recognition or primary occupation at the beginning of a biography of a living person (BLP) on Wikipedia aligns with the site's guidelines on establishing the subject's notability and providing a clear introduction to their career trajectory. This approach is recommended based on Wikipedia policies and best practices. Let me explain why:
Establishing Notability: Wikipedia's guidelines for BLPs emphasize the importance of establishing a person's notability early in the article.
Neutral Point of View (NPOV): Presenting a person's primary occupation or field of recognition at the outset helps maintain a neutral tone by focusing on factual information about their career rather than subjective evaluations or controversies.
Structural Consistency: Most Wikipedia biographies follow a standard format, starting with an introduction to the person's background and career highlights. Then, more detailed information is followed, such as controversies or personal life. This format helps organize information in a logical and reader-friendly manner.
Avoiding Bias: By beginning with the person's initial recognition or career highlights, Wikipedia editors can introduce the subject in a way that minimizes bias and focuses on objective facts about their professional achievements.
For example, you can observe this approach in various well-developed Wikipedia biographies, where the opening paragraphs typically start with a brief overview of the person's notable career or achievements before addressing other aspects of their life or controversies. Career and achievements provide context and establish relevance in the encyclopedia.
In summary, including Benjamin's initial recognition or primary occupation at the beginning of a BLP introduction on Wikipedia is in line with the site's content policies, supports verifiability, and helps establish the subject's notability in a neutral and structured manner.
Sincerely, Todaystomsawyer1981 (talk) 19:13, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please see Wikipedia's policies on what kinds of sources are appropriate. You'll be wanting secondary, reliable sources that describe Benjamin in detail — not user-generated listings of his acting from IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes, or (often self-written) biographies published by venues where he appeared (apparently about 12 years ago, in the case of Laugh Factory, or 7 years ago, in the case of The Glee). If there are a substantial number of reliable, secondary sources (think newspapers, magazines, books, etc.) that describe Benjamin primarily as a comedian or actor, that could be a reason to introduce him as such. However, they would need to be weighed with the substantial number of sources that suggest Benjamin's notability is more thanks to his conspiracy theories and political comments. It may be that there was a time where he was more known as a comedian/actor — as evidenced by the fact that the new sources you have suggested mostly date back to 2009–2017 — but more recent reliable sources tend to remark more on his politics than his comedy. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 21:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the reply and suggestions. The following is an updated proposed revision that includes secondary reliable sources. I added internal links that were missing. I modified citations to improve relevance. One of the most remarkable changes was updating Benjamin's profession to "right-wing comedian". This characterization strikes a balance between his characterization as a mainstream comedian of the past and his more recent right-leaning political statements while maintaining neutrality. I want to reiterate that the quote using a racial slur is still not included and suggested to be moved to the Views section as described previously.:
"Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith (born May 24, 1980), known professionally as Owen Benjamin, is an American right-wing comedian and actor.[26][27][28][29][30][22][21][20][31][32][33] He gained initial recognition through stand-up comedy and had roles in mainstream film and television between 2008 and 2015 including, The House Bunny, Jack and Jill, All's Faire in Love, and Sullivan & Son'.[32][30][29][27][21][22][13][14]
In the late 2010s, Benjamin's public statements and political views became more controversial, drawing scrutiny and criticism from various sources. Some viewpoints attributed to him have been characterized as promoting conspiracy theories, white supremacy, antisemitism, homophobia, and neo-Nazism by certain critics and commentators.[23][2][3][4][5][34] These remarks have been described as offensive and have led to his removal from mainstream comedy engagements and several social media platforms, including X (formally Twitter), Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube, due to policy violations.[7][8][9][25][2][5][8][10]
As of 2023, Benjamin continues to perform standup comedy and remains active on X and various streaming platforms.[17][23][18][19]"
This revision maintains its original aims to:
- Provide a more balanced and neutral representation of Owen Benjamin's career and controversies.
- Include initial recognition or primary occupation at the beginning of a biography of a living person (BLP) that aligns with the site's guidelines on establishing the subject's notability and providing a clear introduction to their career trajectory.
This approach is recommended based on Wikipedia policies and best practices outlined previously. Additionally, this avoids recentism, where the article has an imbalanced focus on recent events without an aim toward a long-term, historical view. Recent sources often label him as a "comedian" with additional descriptions to the right despite focusing on his conspiracy theories and political commentary.
Thank you for considering this edit request.
Sincerely, Todaystomsawyer1981 (talk) 15:54, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm leaving this edit request open for another editor to handle, but I do think your concerns about recentism are misplaced. The lead sentence should describe Benjamin in terms of his primary notability, and that you're having to dig back to 2009 Christina Ricci engagement announcements to find sources that describe him primarily as a comedian or that highlight his acting career suggests that that is not be his primary source of notability. I would also oppose the tortured wording of "Some viewpoints attributed to him have been characterized as..." rather than simply "known for promoting". In my view, this is far less neutral than the existing lead, which well reflects the sourcing. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 16:13, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: No consensus. Per GorillaWarfare, the proposed wording seems far too verbose to be appropriate, and citation overkill doesn't help. I appreciate the intent, but the way to insure the article remains neutral is not to ignore less flattering sources. Likewise, balance should not be confused with false balance. To put it another way, softening the article to assist him in his PR is the opposite of neutral, so this edit does not support your stated goal. Grayfell (talk) 04:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Owen Benjamin: What You Need to Know". Anti Defamation League. December 26, 2023. Retrieved 2024-02-02.
  2. ^ a b c d e f Einbinder, Nicole (April 11, 2019). "White nationalists continue to post on Instagram, despite a new Facebook policy banning such content". Insider. Archived from the original on April 14, 2019. Retrieved April 14, 2019.
  3. ^ a b c d Lorenz, Taylor (October 30, 2018). "Instagram Is Teeming With Anti-Semitism". The Atlantic. Archived from the original on March 29, 2019. Retrieved June 2, 2019.
  4. ^ a b c d Sommer, Will (June 1, 2021). "Neighbors Fear Bear-Themed Compound Will Be Next Ruby Ridge". The Daily Beast. Archived from the original on June 3, 2021. Retrieved June 27, 2021.
  5. ^ a b c d e f g h Petrizzo, Zachary (December 13, 2019). "Alt-right comedian Owen Benjamin banned from Instagram over anti-Semitic memes". The Daily Dot. Archived from the original on June 29, 2021. Retrieved June 27, 2021.
  6. ^ Wilson, Jason; Squire, Megan (19 December 2021). "Revealed: Startup Creates Streaming Platform for Extremists on Big-Tech Infrastructure". Southern Poverty Law Center. Retrieved 12 September 2022.
  7. ^ a b c d Petrizzo, Zachary (December 4, 2019). "Owen Benjamin, alt-right comedian, banned from YouTube". The Daily Dot. Archived from the original on December 6, 2019. Retrieved December 14, 2019.
  8. ^ a b c d e f g h Holt, Jared (December 13, 2019). "Instagram and Facebook Suspend Right-Wing 'Comedian' Owen Benjamin". Right Wing Watch. People For the American Way. Archived from the original on December 13, 2019. Retrieved December 14, 2019.
  9. ^ a b c d Goforth, Claire (March 24, 2020). "Banned 'alt-right' comedian returns to spread coronavirus misinformation". The Daily Dot. Archived from the original on July 8, 2020. Retrieved July 17, 2020.
  10. ^ a b c d Holt, Jared (February 12, 2019). "Owen Benjamin: Another 'Red Pill' Overdose Victim". Right Wing Watch. People for the American Way. Archived from the original on July 17, 2019. Retrieved July 11, 2019.
  11. ^ "Owen Benjamin: What You Need to Know". Anti Defamation League. December 26, 2023. Retrieved 2024-02-02.
  12. ^ Wilson, Jason; Squire, Megan (19 December 2021). "Revealed: Startup Creates Streaming Platform for Extremists on Big-Tech Infrastructure". Southern Poverty Law Center. Retrieved 12 September 2022.
  13. ^ a b c "Owen Benjamin - IMDb". IMDb. Archived from the original on April 25, 2023. Retrieved 2024-04-30.
  14. ^ a b "Owen Benjamin". Rotten Tomatoes. Archived from the original on December 14, 2022. Retrieved 2024-04-30.
  15. ^ "Laugh Factory". Laugh Factory. Archived from the original on 30 April 2024. Retrieved 2024-04-30.
  16. ^ "Owen Benjamin". The Glee Club. 2019-05-01. Archived from the original on April 30, 2024. Retrieved 2024-04-30.
  17. ^ a b c "Noble Savage (2023) ⭐ 6.2". IMDb. 2023-10-13. Retrieved 2024-04-30.
  18. ^ a b "Owen Benjamin Movies and Shows". Apple TV+. Archived from the original on April 17, 2023. Retrieved 2024-04-30.
  19. ^ a b "Owen Benjamin: Movies, TV, and Bio". Amazon Prime Video. 2024-03-22. Archived from the original on April 30, 2024. Retrieved 2024-04-30.
  20. ^ a b "Comedian Owen Benjamin's Hilarious Ballad About Relationships". Oprah Winfrey Network. 2016-02-20. Archived from the original on September 25, 2023. Retrieved 2024-04-30.
  21. ^ a b c Schweitzer, Kate (March 17, 2009). "Christina Ricci is Engaged!". Us Weekly. Archived from the original on March 20, 2009.
  22. ^ a b c "Oswego native Owen Benjamin to perform at Funny Bone in Syracuse". Oswego County News Now (Press release). August 31, 2016. Archived from the original on July 10, 2019.
  23. ^ a b c d "Owen Benjamin: What You Need to Know". Anti Defamation League. December 26, 2023. Retrieved 2024-02-02.
  24. ^ Wilson, Jason; Squire, Megan (19 December 2021). "Revealed: Startup Creates Streaming Platform for Extremists on Big-Tech Infrastructure". Southern Poverty Law Center. Retrieved 12 September 2022.
  25. ^ a b Mandel, Bethany (April 8, 2019). "How did conservative comedian Owen Benjamin became a darling of the 'alt-right'?". Jewish Telegraphic Agency. Archived from the original on April 16, 2019. Retrieved May 14, 2019.
  26. ^ Price, Jason (2017-07-08). "Unsung Heroes of Hollywood: The Comedy of Owen Benjamin". Icon Vs. Icon. Archived from the original on May 30, 2023. Retrieved 2024-05-01.
  27. ^ a b Genzlinger, Neil (2011-10-27). "'All's Faire in Love,' With Christina Ricci". The New York Times. Archived from the original on June 17, 2022. Retrieved 2024-05-01.
  28. ^ View all posts (2013-11-22). "Living Writers Series: Owen Benjamin". The Oswegonian. Archived from the original on Jan 13, 2022. Retrieved 2024-05-01.
  29. ^ a b Shreve, Thomas (2017-03-23). "Owen Benjamin leaves audience in tears". Iowa State Daily. Archived from the original on May 1, 2024. Retrieved 2024-05-01.
  30. ^ a b DiDonato, Nicole (2017-02-24). "Catch comedian Owen Benjamin at Dr. Grins". FOX 17 West Michigan News (WXMI). Archived from the original on May 26, 2022. Retrieved 2024-05-01.
  31. ^ Guild, Art Directors (2013-10-09). "Comedian Owen Benjamin to Host the Art Directors Guild 18th Annual Excellence in Production Design Awards, Feb. 8". PR Newswire. Archived from the original on Dec 13, 2013. Retrieved 2024-05-01.
  32. ^ a b Greenberg, Rudi (2014-07-31). "'Sullivan & Son' star Steve Byrne brings castmates Ahmed Ahmed, Owen Benjamin and Roy Wood Jr. to the DC Improv". Washington Post. Archived from the original on Sep 14, 2019. Retrieved 2024-05-01.
  33. ^ Airey, Jacob (2018-07-31). "Owen Benjamin: The Strange Death Of Comedy". The Daily Wire. Archived from the original on Oct 31, 2019. Retrieved 2024-05-01.
  34. ^ Wilson, Jason; Squire, Megan (19 December 2021). "Revealed: Startup Creates Streaming Platform for Extremists on Big-Tech Infrastructure". Southern Poverty Law Center. Retrieved 12 September 2022.
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