Talk:Ostriv Velykyi Potomkin
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Article title and translation[edit]
Is "Ostriv Velykyi Potomkin" really the name we want to give to this article? I'm not too sure about the Wiki policies here, but I would think that "Big Potemkin Island" - which the name literally translates to, and numerous English sources already call it - would be a better title. I haven't done a deep search for what the WP:COMMONNAME is with Google yet, but from my brief searching, it seems that the two names are roughly equally prominent in raw Google search results, possibly with a slight edge for "Big Potemkin Island". I'll see if I can find more info later, but if anyone has other input or opinion, please let me know.
Also, the article body seemingly cites the US government-created GeoNames website as the source of the names, but that website also calls Kherson Oblast "Khersonska Oblast", so I don't think that's a good resource for finding the WP:COMMONNAME - I suspect, in fact, that it's just transliterating the native name to Latin without many other changes, since this wasn't really a well-known geographical feature in the Anglosphere until recently. HappyWith (talk) 16:06, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for looking into it, @HappyWith. As you noticed, the names given are based on the Geographic Names Database (GeoNames), containing official standard names approved by the United States Board on Geographic Names. Whether or not the names are qualifiable as common names, I am not aware of. However, as far as my knowledge goes, it's not typical on Wikipedia to translate place names. For example, see Maidan Nezalezhnosti, which would be "Independence Square" if translated. I am doubtful as to whether this island is even prominent enough to have a common name. One way one can typically determine which name is more commonly used is through Google Trends, which gives Ostriv Velykyi Potomkin an interest rating of 8 and Big Potemkin Island one of 6, indicating that, as of May 2023, Ostriv Velykyi Potomkin is slightly more popular. Regardless, neither name has enough usage to really give any sort of useful data. Samiollah1357 (talk) 03:28, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
- 1 Month later, it appears Ostriv Velykyi Potomkin has only gained popularity, with it now holding an interest rating of 10, as opposed to Big Potemkin Island having declined to one of 4. Samiollah1357 (talk) 19:04, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- I wonder if some compromise might not be possible. "Potemkin" is derived from the Russian language name, so that should probably be out, but "Ostriv" is perhaps a bit unwieldy in English. Why not, then, call it "Big Potomkin Island?" That way it's an English name that's actually English, but it also has the Ukrainian toponymy preserved. George Mucus (talk) 22:23, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- IMO “Velykyi Potemkin Island”, which I’ve seen elsewhere, is the best way to do that.
- Similar to how we say “Dnieper” (often with horribly mangled pronunciations e.g. rhyming with “hyper”) instead of “Dnipro” or “Dnepr”, rather than “Potyomkin” or “Potomkin” the English WP:COMMONNAME for the island’s namesake is “Potemkin”.
- As a complete aside, as a hard-core languages student I find the semantic divergence between Ukrainian “Velykyi” and its Russian cognate “Veliky” to be interesting vis-a-vis the naming of the island here.
- RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 07:31, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
- I wonder if some compromise might not be possible. "Potemkin" is derived from the Russian language name, so that should probably be out, but "Ostriv" is perhaps a bit unwieldy in English. Why not, then, call it "Big Potomkin Island?" That way it's an English name that's actually English, but it also has the Ukrainian toponymy preserved. George Mucus (talk) 22:23, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- 1 Month later, it appears Ostriv Velykyi Potomkin has only gained popularity, with it now holding an interest rating of 10, as opposed to Big Potemkin Island having declined to one of 4. Samiollah1357 (talk) 19:04, 5 June 2023 (UTC)