Talk:Oseledets

Russia: History / Demographics & ethnography Mid‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
	This article is supported by the demographics and ethnography of Russia task force.

Ukraine High‑importance

	Ukraine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Fashion

	Fashion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fashion, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Fashion on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FashionWikipedia:WikiProject FashionTemplate:WikiProject Fashionfashion articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Turkish origin?[edit]

The COA of House of Schwarzenberg shows a raven pecking an eye of a Turk.[1] Please take a look at his haircut. Any info? Bar-abban (talk) 23:42, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Origin[edit]

Please, do NOT introduce unreliable sources into the article. There is no scholarly source that would connect the hairstyle to Svyatoslav.--Galassi (talk) 15:13, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

there are loads of them. Just use google time after time ^) -- George Serdechny 15:15, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is a PRIMARY source - a record by Leo Diaconus who indeed described Svyatoslav as wearing this haicut.176.15.77.168 (talk) 10:14, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A description of a haircut in a primary source is WP:OR. Where is this description exactly (verbatum) in the source, and how do you know it is a chupryna? It took no one specific form over the centuries: short, long, waxed, plaited, tucked behind the ear... --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:04, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Uhm, both Ukrainians and Russians are claiming that oseledets was an traditional Ruthenian haircut, and both are always quoting the Leon Deacon's description of Svyatoslav as an only proof. But they probably ignore that Svyatoslav was an Varangian so it's unclear what custom he was observing. For example, Bulgarians have an interesting theory, that origins of ukrainian oseledets can be easily connected with south slavic чумбас/чембас or perčin arrived with Proto-Bulgarians from Asia. Asank neo (talk) 13:15, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, if we're going to get technical about it, Sviatoslav I of Kiev was post-Varangian, even if this were reliably sourced (see Galassi's comment right at the top of this section... from 2011). Secondly, your 'theory' is WP:OR (unless, of course, you have WP:RS to back it up). Thirdly, and most importantly, this is an article talk page, WP:NOTOPINION. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:10, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, sorry, that's my fault :) So, firsty there are many articles with some sources or pictures about the existence of čumbas or perčin in the Balkans: example example2 example3 example3. The fact, that the Proto-Bulgarian heads were in some way shaven you can easily find in Nominalia of the Bulgarian Khans. The area of First Bulgarian Empire is partially on territories of Ukraine. Migrations of Bulgarians are through the Ukrainian territory too, with influences from Old Great Bulgaria. Normans weared shaven heads(good illustrations in Bayeux Tapestry), so it seems, that more probably is rather an mix of Proto-Bulgarian, Asian and Scandinavian influences than an native custom.Asank neo (talk) 13:52, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Irrelevant. Again, this is WP:OR, and please desist with the WP:SOAP. This is not a forum or blog. Thank you for your understanding. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 20:50, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]