Talk:Nurbanu Sultan

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Origins[edit]

There has been a suggestion that Nurbanu was the daughter of A Spanish Jew, Joseph Nasi. There is nothing to back this up. In fact, the two were born within one year of eachother. There has been some conjecture that she was of Jewish origin. Perhaps this is where the confusion came from.

Thank you.

It was more or less conclusivly proved in Nur Banu's own time that she was not of Venetian Jewish nobility as she claimed, and was instead born into a bourgeois Greek Orthodox family that lived on one of the islands ruled by Venice. She was taken by pirates, she created a lofty noble identity for herself to leverage it in the harem politics, and also to recieve gifts and bribes from Venice to insure she maintained il Serenissimo's interests at the Ottoman court.

How could a Jew be the Doge of Venice? john k 00:17, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It seems unlikely... The only thing I can see in favour is that the Doge in question was the son of a 'Moses'... a Jewish name, and the Dogeship was electoral, so it is possible, perhaps? Furius 11:40, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A Jew wouldn't be considered Venetian, let alone Doge of Venice; the patriciate was thoroughly Catholic and their descent recorded in state offices, while the residency of Jews (classified as German, Levantine, or Iberian) was tightly restricted. The first writer has it: she told the Venetian baili that she was of a patrician family, and claimed to have lived on a house on the Grand Canal, but never gave any details about her family. Julian Raby, an art historian formerly at Oxford and now a Smithsonian director, writes that she played that story to ingratiate herself with the Venetians and win a larger share of their gift/bribe distribution. --128.252.254.1 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 09:05, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why are Safiye's letters being used to suggest Nurbanu was Jewish?[edit]

I have found a link to safiye's published letters .

Here it is.   http://www.islamicmanuscripts.info/reference/books/Stern-1965-Documents/Stern-1965-Documents-119-157-Skilliter.pdf

I have examined the letters closely and they do not indicate that Nurbanu was Jewish. The only mention of a Jewess in these letters are referring to the Kiras, esther handali and esperanza malachi , who were Jewish women very close to both Nurbanu and Safiye. I can only imagine that there was some confusion due to the Kiras being Jewish.

Safiye's letters don't say Nurbanu is Jewish. They prove that Safiye is a Baffo. Nurbanu used the identity of being a Baffo in order to hold influence in the harem. But I don't see anything wrong with being a Jewish. There are many speculations about Nurbanu's identity so why do people TRY TO change her to a Catholic? If she is Cecilia Venier-Baffo she is a Catholic. If she is Kale Kartanou she is Orthodox. If she is Rachel Marie Nassi she is Jewish. There are more than proofs and every day a new proof is added. No one knows for sure. The Turks claim she is Jewish, the Italians claim she is Catholic. 3 identities with full names: Cecilia Venier-Baffo, Kale Kartanou and Rachel Marie Nassi... It is up to your belief. But the truth is, Nurbanu was an Ottoman sultan and Safiye was a real Baffo. Whether they were related or not, this can never prove anything. Whether they were cousins or not, there was an obvious rivalry between them... 88.242.47.49 (talk) 16:21, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nicely said, as a Venier my family tradition taught me that Nurbanu was the daughter of Nicolo Venier. One point is that the Nassi were in Naxos and not in Paros. BTW my family is now Orthodox.

Reliability of "Shakespeare Exhumed" as a source[edit]

"Shakespeare Exhumed: The Bassano Chronicles" by P. Matthews is far from being a reliable source and can't be used here : it is a self published book written by a non academic author, dealing with fringe theories and sourced by wikipedia itself or its clones as shown in its footnotes.--Phso2 (talk) 10:06, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Does where she comes from really matter? Shouldn't we be talking about their politics? When it comes to the Ottoman sultans, you can never be sure where they come from... I personally don't think it matters but people have suggested a good deal of theories. Wow! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.97.226.76 (talk) 23:23, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agripinna Baffo[edit]

If Safiye is confirmed to be non-Venetian, what does a portrait do on her page, titled "Agripinna Baffo"? Nurbanu is Venetian, she is from the Baffo family. I do NOT know what her first name is actually, but this portrait must be on this page. As far as I know, Safiye does not have any known portrait. In any case, her "Greek" origins are totally irrelevant.88.238.3.124 (talk) 12:52, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]