Talk:Nukhba (Hamas unit)

Nukhba (Hamas unit) was nominated as a Warfare good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (December 14, 2023, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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armyrecognition.com is not a reliable source[edit]

G'day, there are quite a few citations to armyrecognition.com. As indicated here and here, it is not a reliable source. This article cannot be a GA while it has sources of this type. Unless this is rectified shortly (in the next seven days), I will quickfail the GAN after providing some more pointers on possible improvements. Feel free to ask any questions about this on this thread. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:45, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67:

Done Thanks for pointing this out. Source removed. There was nothing in that source that wasn't widely reported elsewhere. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 08:05, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. MEMRI is also pretty questionable. See Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources and search for MEMRI. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67: there's no doubt that MEMRI is partisan. However the use here is that they've shared on YouTube Hamas' own video about Nukhba from the Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam Brigades' Telegram channel and provided English subtitles translating the voiceover. So in terms of reliability, the only question would be if the translation was accurate. I think it is a valuable source in this regard as there are few places where Hamas itself describes the Nukhba's capabilities, backing up what the Israelis claim. Seems like a reasonable use of the source to me. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 09:14, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would expect hard questions about this at GAN, as it is a self-published source and not independent of the subject ie Hamas created the video and this article is about a Hamas unit. Just because Hamas and the IDF agree on a unit's capabilities doesn't mean either of them is right. Hamas may inflate its capability for propaganda purposes, and as we have seen recently, the IDF's intelligence sources are hardly infallible, and if their recent press releases are any measure, they are also prone to use propaganda for their own purposes. I wouldn't pass a source review with it included. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And IDF press releases are hardly "independent of the subject" as WP:RS expects. Surely such things have been covered in legitimate news sources? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Nukhba (Hamas unit)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Peacemaker67 (talk · contribs) 22:50, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Copied in part from the talk page: The Hamas Youtube video is a self-published source and not independent of the subject ie Hamas created the video and this article is about a Hamas unit. Just because Hamas and the IDF agree on a unit's capabilities doesn't mean either of them is right. Hamas may inflate its capability for propaganda purposes, and as we have seen recently, the IDF's intelligence sources are hardly infallible, and if their recent press releases are any measure, they are also prone to use propaganda for their own purposes. The combination of the Hamas video and the IDF press releases make for a hard fail unless they are replaced with WP:RS. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:54, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
	2c. it contains no original research.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.	Currently a hard no for sources. I cannot assess the rest of the article until the unreliable sources are replaced with reliable ones. Placing on hold for seven days for the sourcing issue to be addressed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:55, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply] *Failing. No attempt has been made to improve the sourcing for over a fortnight since issues were first raised on the talk page. Without the unreliable sources, it seems unlikely this article could meet the criteria in any case, so I'm failing it on criteria 2b. It is impossible to assess most of the other criteria because so much of it relies on unreliable sources. I strongly recommend revising the sources for the article and seeking reliable ones before renominating the article at GAN. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:14, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

POV[edit]

Clear overreliance on Israeli sources, even Israeli army press releases, all of which I have removed. Makeandtoss (talk) 15:15, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]