Talk:North Moreton

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Ukrainian refugees

I am posting here to give User:78.70.161.206 an opportunity to discuss their repeated insertion of a paragraph called "Ukrainian Refugee Controversy". The user apparently objects to the fact that a Ukrainian family (reported by the BBC) has been housed in North Moreton, and that "Up to 45 refugees could be housed with 16 hosts in North Moreton, Oxfordshire." The user consistently inflates this potential figure, and criticises the hosts' motives. None of this is supported by the sources, and is in obvious breach of Wikipedia's neutral point of view guidelines:

"The village is full of cosy and comfortable middle class families who, despite for decades doing nothing to help the native British homeless, found places to house 50 Ukrainian refugees. Many right thinking British people were disgusted by the village attempting to expunge their middle class guilt in this way, but, continuing to ignore the far worse plight of the British homeless."

Dave.Dunford (talk) 07:43, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Dear "dave",

Following your comments the edit was subsequently re-written to focus on and only state facts in accord with the "neutural policy". Despite this you have continued to delete the revised and fact focused information. GIVE AND ACCOUNT OF YOURSELF. In addition the figure of 50 is quoted on the segment on Broadcasting house this very morning. 78.70.161.206 (talk) 09:28, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

The BBC report that ONE family has been housed in North Moreton and that up to 45 could be housed in future. I have no problem with that being added, though it's questionable whether it's notable. What is plainly unacceptable is your implication that this implies that the hosts do not care about the British homeless. None of that is in the source – it is merely your own opinion, clearly unencyclopaedic, and against Wikipedia policies. Dave.Dunford (talk) 10:13, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

I have listened to the Broadcasting House extract you refer to – this is a transcription:

Host: "We visit the village hoping to host 50 Ukrainian refugees."
North Moreton resident: "The reaction was amazing, because we have only 157 houses, and out of those 16 homes offered to host refugee families."
Host: "You could host up to 50 perhaps?"
North Moreton resident: "We could host up to 50."

This establishes the potential figure of 50. But it doesn't evidence that there is any "controversy", or that this is worthy of mention in the article, and it certainly doesn't justify your criticisms of the hosts' motives or reveal anything about their views on the British homeless. That is pure projection on your part, and is a clear breach of Wikipedia's policies on neutral point of view. Your editorialising is the opposite of neutral: a neutral reporting of the facts would be something like "In 2022 a Ukrainian family was hosted by a North Moreton household, and the BBC reported that up to 45 refugees could be housed with 16 hosts." None of the rest of your contribution, or the section heading, is remotely appropriate for an encyclopaedia. I question whether the information is notable at all, and it certainly shouldn't be expressed in this way under a "Controversy" heading. I have reported you for edit-warring. Dave.Dunford (talk) 10:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

"dave" this is now irrelevant. You have understood and accepted 50. The critique of the residents has been removed and will not be placed there unless further evidence emerges. You cannot prove a negarive and I would be happy to remove the comment about not doing a thing for the British homeless if this is evidenced and quantified. A look on social media will soon evident that this is contravercial. Some things are plain and evident. Do you have a suggestion for an alternative heading. This is relevant to the entry the village, despute its only157 houses has appeard on a BBC national program as well as on Radio Oxford and the BBC web site as a poster boy for the Ukranian refugee scheme and in a campaining way complaint about the delays (listen to the segment). That is very contraversial. Mentioning the source is important for an encyclopedic entry and the context of the absence of any evidence of the far bigger problem of British homeless is important. Finally thank you for holding off on changing the edit. I am happy for suggestions on rewording, but, I have already distilled this to the very basic and unavoidable facts. 78.70.161.206 (talk) 13:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Firstly, in case you were unaware, the page has now been semi-protected by an administrator, which means that if you wish to continue to edit, you will need to register an account, with a username. The admin has noted your "editorializing" (their word, not mine) and has warned that "If the IP continues with personal attacks a block may be necessary". Secondly, I propose to remove the entire section – again – on the following policy grounds:

1. It's very clear that you have strong opinions about this, which in your first edit were expressed in unacceptable terms. That immediately prompts questions about whether you are capable of writing neutrally on this subject. The plight of the homeless in Britain is not relevant to the homing of Ukrainian refugees, and is even less relevant to the village of North Moreton, which is what this article is supposed to be about.
2. The only information you added that meets Wikipedia's sourcing requirements is the fact that a household in North Moreton has taken in a Ukrainian family (and others may follow). On its own, that fact is not notable: it's not peculiar to North Moreton, and it's not notable in a brief history of a village with centuries of history. See WP:UNDUE. The only reason you mentioned it was that so you could denounce it.
3. You have still not provided any references to support your claim of significant controversy over the housing of Ukrainians in North Moreton. For anything remotely contentious, Wikipedia requires a reference to a reliable source (as defined by Wikipedia, not by me) for each claim in in the article. You cannot simply claim that "some things are plain and evident". That's not how Wikipedia works. You need to find a reliable source to confirm that objections have been expressed by significant numbers of people. And Facebook posts and tweets are not reliable sources – it needs to be a neutral, third-party source (such as a newspaper) that has explicitly mentioned that there is controversy over this.
4. The fact that you've toned down your initial rant is not a solution: you have patently not removed criticism of the residents, or stuck to the facts – the negative intent is still entirely obvious in remaining statements such as "No attempts have been made by them to house the large numbers of British homeless" and "That segment failed to provide any critique of the villagers' actions". This breaches WP:NPOV.

So, ultimately, there's nothing worth keeping – the fact that one Ukrainian family (so far – the final number is speculative and not worth debating) has been housed in the village is barely notable, and the controversy you claim is uncited. Dave.Dunford (talk) 18:34, 18 April 2022 (UTC)