Talk:North Cape (New Zealand)

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved.

Discussions:

No consensus, 22 March 2022, to North Cape / Otou, see discussion.
Withdrawn, 24 June 2022, to North Cape / Otou, see discussion.

Map[edit]

The New Zealand location map is useful enough for finding out where in NZ North Cape is, but would it be possible to include a map of the Cape Reinga – North Cape area showing the relative position of the two capes? Koro Neil (talk) 23:05, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Cam River (Canterbury) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:37, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 24 June 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. I stand by the rationale and this move request, but the anti-dual name gang have all shown up early and I can't be bothered having this fight at the moment. (non-admin closure) Turnagra (talk) 00:51, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

North Cape (New Zealand) → North Cape / Otou – The proposed dual name meets all of WP:CRITERIA as well as or better than the current title. "North Cape / Otou" is far more recognisable than simply "North Cape" and the required disambiguation to refer to this feature, as well as being far more concise and precise. There are plenty of examples of dual names in use - including for disambiguation purposes - which means that consistency with other places in New Zealand isn't an issue, while the dual name is also more natural, in part by virtue of it capturing all three names which someone might know the Cape as ("North Cape / Otou", "North Cape", and "Otou"), as well as it not requiring redundant disambiguation. Turnagra (talk) 06:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, per WP:NZNC, which requires the current disambiguation format. The proposed title is also extremely obscure, making it unsuitable both per WP:CRITERIA which requires naturalness, and per WP:TITLEDAB, which requires that natural disambiguation is not obscure - thousands of scholarly sources and hundreds of news sources, most of which are relevant, use the current title, while no news sources and only five scholarly sources use the proposed title. It's relevant to note that it is also obscure compared to the exact text of the current title, including its disambiguation, which returns 263 scholarly sources and 8 news sources.

The proposed title is also less recognizable, as "New Zealand" will help users to understand where this North Cape is more than "Otou" will, and both names are equally precise. BilledMammal (talk) 07:08, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per BilledMamal. In addition, recognisability still requires the area to be known by the name commonly, and as demonstrated this area is not commonly known as "Otou". Naturalness also requires the same. The article's current name, North Cape (New Zealand) is extremely recognisable to people searching for North Cape in New Zealand.--Spekkios (talk) 07:40, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This isn’t an official name, nor is it a name used by reliable national media. RNZ, Newshub, Stuff and the Herald all use North Cape without even a token reference to Otou or North Cape / Otou ([1], [2], [3] and [4] respectively).

NB, I chose a single news story for ease of search, but these stories were independently reported. Note also that RNZ and Newshub do not include “Otou” in their spoken reporting; and note that these reports do not shy away from Māori language terms (eg, rahui). — HTGS (talk) 00:47, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I actually prefer the “Common Name Gang”… like “pro-choice,” not “pro-abortion.” — HTGS (talk) 01:28, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]