Talk:Norina Matchabelli

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Untitled[edit]

Maria Carmi played the Madona and not the Nun in "Das Mirakel" and "The Miracle." Please see credits at IMDB.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0296756/

Maria Carmi alternated with Lady Diana Manners in the Broadway production at the Century Theater in New York in 1924.

The following is a clip from The New York Times, January 24, 1924.

Maria Carmi, known also as the Principessa Matchabelli, played the rôle of the Madonna in "The Miracle" for the first time last night at the Century Theatre and achieved an instantaneous success. An audience that filled the theatre, many of the members of which were viewing the production for the second time, found her interpretation of the rôle fully as satisfying as that of Lady Diana Manners, although differing sharply in detail.

Instead of standing during the forty-two minutes that precedes the coming to life of the Madonna, Maria Carmi is seated on a throne. The coming to life of the statue becomes a formal and detailed ceremony, and the feeling of statue come to life is never lost at any time during the performance. While presenting a graceful figure, the actress nevertheless manages to retain something of the ethereal and spiritual.

Maria Carmi will play the rôle again tomorrow night, at which time Lady Diana Manners will be seen for the first time as the Nun, hitherto played by Rosamond Pinchot. This arrangement will be repeated at the matinee on Saturday, and at the night performance Lady Diana will again play the Madonna, with Miss Pinchot once more as the Nun.

Next week Maria Carmi will play the Madonna on Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights and at the Saturday matinee, with Lady Diana in the rô1e at the other performances. Miss Pinchot will be seen as the Nun except on Wednesday night and Saturday afternoon, when Lady Diana will have the part.

[1] (link to archive article requires free login password)

One possible reason it might appear that Maria Carmi did not play the role is the the Internet Broadway Database only gives the credits for the opening night, thus Diana Manners. http://www.ibdb.com/production.asp?ID=9459 Chris 22:00, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The play opened in London in 1912. It opened at Olympia Hall in London in 1924. [2] Cott14 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 23:20, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Prince Matchabelli Perfumes was created by Prince Georges V. Matchabelli who was not only a previous Georgian Prince and ambassador to Italy, but also was an amateur chemist who began creating perfumes for his friends and family as a hobby. Georges was a Russian exile who fled the Soviet Union and immigrated to the USA after the Russian Revolution. He and his wife, Princess Norina Matchabelli (an actress whose stage name was Maria Carmi), opened a small antiques shop Le Rouge et le Noir at 545 Madison Avenue. The name derived from Stendhal's novel, red for aristocracy (Matchabelli's origins) and black for clergy (The Miracle, a religious play). They later established the Prince Matchabelli Perfume Company in 1926. Perfumes were personally blended for clients. The first three perfumes were Princess Norina, Queen of Georgia and Ave Maria. The company became known for the many color-coded, crown-shaped bottles designed by Norina after the Matchabelli crown and introduced in 1928 with labels on the underside. (from the internet in case it is of any use) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dazedbythebell (talk • contribs) 18:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Birth Date[edit]

@ Fastfingerfred1, Notice you have changed the date of Matchabelli's birth according to birth certificate and Baptismal record. Can you give a published reference to that. How do people know you are telling the truth when all sources give the birth date as it was? Please discuss. Dazedbythebell (talk) 13:26, 3 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

All sources say that Norina Gilli was born in 1880. Some very solid verification would be needed to change that here. Dazedbythebell (talk) 01:49, 4 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

Norina is an Italian diminutive of Eleonora. [3]

Birth year again[edit]

@ Fastfingerfred1, you have an edit history composed entirely of a single repeated edit to this article. In addition, you have not engaged this discussion. All published sources give the birth year for Norina Matchabelli as 1880. Please avoid original research. "Princess Norina Matchabelli Dies at 77; Co-Founder of Perfumery Was an Actress" – New York Times obituary 1957 found here. She was born 1880, and was 77, not 76, at time of death. Dazedbythebell (talk) 23:04, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@ Fastfingerfred1, so far the only source you have given is in your original edit summary, "She was born in 1881 according to her official birth and baptismal certificates obtained from Florence, Italy." Nothing is given where these are published for people to confirm. Wikipedia has a policy of Verifiability. But this is complicated by Wikipedia's policy of No Original Research. This means that a discovered document that contradicts all reputably published sources is not a replacement for those sources on Wikipedia. Rather someone would have to find a critique of the newly discovered material in some published reputable source, and then add that as a second opinion. In Wikipedia we put the dominant view recognized by scholarship. Wikipedia is not the place to publicize our own discoveries. The criteria on Wikipedia is not fact, but what is published in the most reputable third party sources. To simply say in an edit summary that there are ". . . birth and baptismal certificates obtained from Florence, Italy" does not say who obtained them, who has them, or how they can be verified by readers. And a link to sites like ancestry.com and findagrave.com are also not likely to hold up on Wikipedia against published sources. This is especially true of someone as heavily documented in the literature as Princess Norina Matchabelli. Leave the new discoveries to the authors. Wikipedia is the place to gather the current documented positions -- not new startling research. Hope this helps. Dazedbythebell (talk) 13:27, 4 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@ Fastfingerfred1, here is your edit history in the 17 months you have been on Wikipedia. It is clear that you have no intention of engaging in this discussion after many invitations. But I'm asking you again. Your 'one edit', which is the only edit you do based on a document that you seem to have but is not in public record, is unhelpful. It is not how Wikipedia works. Sources must be verifiable. See Wikipedia:Verifiability. Dazedbythebell (talk) 01:21, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]