Talk:Nijū kun

Not everyone reads japanese

number 17 "Kamae is for beginners; later, one stands in shizentai" is a problem. Not everyone reads japanese. A translation of the words Kamae and shizentai is needed Herogamer (talk) 19:45, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

I changed Japanese words to English translations, with relevant wiki links. Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 02:06, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Bowing

The line "Karate-do begins and ends with bowing" has much deeper meaning than just bowing. The word 礼 (禮) is a concept in Ruism (i.e., Confucianism) that means ritual propriety. Essentially it describes the proper conduct and care of conduct we take in dealing with other people at all times. So here, the meaning is not that Karate-do has to do with literal bowing, but rather that it starts and ends with the idealized social construct as conceived in Ruist and greater East Asian culture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.60.138 (talk) 16:18, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

You will need to provide a reliable source as reference to support this inclusion. A type of cabinet (talk) 18:17, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

A detailed discussion of the term 礼/禮 that appears in the line 空手道は礼に始まり礼に終る事を忘るな can be found at ritual propriety. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.60.138 (talk) 18:37, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a suitable resource. Please find something that supports the ritual propriety or it has no relevance. A type of cabinet (talk) 18:45, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

You are correct in that Wikipedia is not the best of sources - my apologies. A detailed discuss of 礼/禮 can be found at https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09552367.2020.1738668 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.60.138 (talk) 18:59, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Gichin Funakoshi (trans. Teramoto). The Twenty Guiding Principles of Karate. ISBN 978-4-7700-2796-2 translates 礼/禮 in this line as "respect," not bowing. They also give a slightly larger discussion of the cultural meaning of the term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.60.138 (talk) 19:21, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

This is another detailed article on the meaning of 礼/禮, this time in Japanese culture, where it also means ritual, propriety, etc... https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/163/article/868748/summary. Thank you though for encouraging all of us to cite peer reviewed scholarly works - it does make this project better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.60.138 (talk) 19:27, 3 October 2023 (UTC)