Talk:Ngawi, New Zealand

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pronunciation naa ngaa[edit]

In a previous edit changed the [[1]] Rsfinlayson changed the pronunciation guide from nga to na with the summary suggesting that the g is not pronounced in NZ English. While this would be true of some NZ speakers many speakers will be pronouncing the ng as a much softer (further back in the mouth) sound rather than the plain normal English N sound (front of the mouth). the ng is similar to wh in that it is pronounced differently by many in NZ English than the two letters suggest. As indeed are the purely English digraphs sh, ch and th. I have no idea how to reflect this into a pronunciation guide but I'm not sure what is there at the moment reflects the reality of the situation. Andrewgprout (talk) 00:00, 18 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I understand that in the Maori language, the pronunciation for "n" and "ng" are supposed to be (somewhat) different. The extent to which this difference also manifests itself when Maori-origin names (like "Ngawi") are spoken in English can be debated - but that's actually not the issue that I had in mind here. Remember that Wikipedia is an international encyclopedia - so any pronunciation guide should be useful for an international audience (including tourists to NZ); not just to New Zealanders (who will likely already be familiar with "ng" as a Maori-language digraph). The average non-NZer, when they see the pronunciation given as "nga wee", are likely to scratch their head in confusion. "naa wee", OTOH, is much easier to understand (even if it might not be strictly 'correct').

Perhaps the best solution would be to give the pronunciation using IPA (the International Phonetic Alphabet) - but I'm no expert in that, so I'll leave that for someone else. Ross Finlayson (talk) 00:25, 18 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What makes you think the g sound in the ng digraph is not pronounced in Māori place names? The correct pronunciation is the pronunciation as it is written. Not the lazy white persons way. Ajf773 (talk) 20:06, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're missing my point. My point was that, in Wikipedia, a 'pronunciation guide' needs to be understandable to an international audience. The average (non-NZ) reader is going to be totally confused by the "g" if they see the pronunciation given as "nga wee". It's not going to give them any idea how to say the name. That's why "naa wee" is a better pronunciation guide, even if not 'perfect'. (As I said before, even better would be to use the IPA (the International Phonetic Alphabet) to write the pronunciation. I hope an IPA expert steps up here and helps out.) Ross Finlayson (talk) 21:02, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This source: Help:IPA/Māori is linked under the pronunciation for Ngaruawahia. Ajf773 (talk) 21:33, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks. That would suggest an IPA pronunciation of "ŋawi". I don't feel competent enough in IPA to make this change myself; but if someone else wants to do so, then go ahead. Ross Finlayson (talk) 21:47, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]