Talk:Moussaka

Verification

I don't see the need for "verification/references" banner; the article is about a topic that is common knowledge for good portion of our readers and contributors, so I think that any errors or dubious statements would quickly be spotted and corrected or reported here. What the references should be? Cookbooks? Ethnological studies? Perhaps the person who put the banner could elaborate. --bonzi (talk) 20:23, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Split Turkish musakka

I think there is a need for a separate article on Turkish musakka since the 2 dishes, both delicious, are entirely different in every way. --79.167.75.27 (talk) 08:51, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Eggplant?

as this is a European article they should use the british spelling namely Aubergine, most people reading this article wont have a clue what 'eggplants' are (it sounds horrible and Aubergines look nothing like eggs).

Eggplant based?!

At least in Bulgaria musaka (aka moussaka) does not have to be eggplant based. Generally it always contains potatoes, but there are versions of it without potatoes. The only thing that musaka can't go without is the eggs and milk mixture poured on top of it. Very few local versions of it are actually eggplant based!

Of all recipes for musaka here, only one is eggplant based : http://www.gotvetesmen.com/recipes/categories/Bulgrian_cooks/stew_moussaka/

Actually eggplant is just one of the options for the "main ingredient". It is possible to make mousakka out of some vegetables, so Mousakka isn't about the ingredient but the method to cook. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.68.203.174 (talk) 10:04, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I think the opening section of this article has to be reworked, as it's highly inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.204.88.205 (talk) 18:58, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Mousa

Interesting that the word "Moussaka" bears a close affinity to the Greek "Mousa" > "Muse," and the words "Mosaic", "Music" and "Museum" all tie back to that word. Maybe more investigation is required before we can brand "Moussaka" as being Arabic and being etymologically linked to the Arabic word, musaqqa‘ah? Greeks did have a very profound presence/effect in the Arab world during/after the time of Alexander the Great. And since The Muses, (Ancient Greek: Μοῦσαι Mousai; perhaps from the o-grade of the Proto-Indo-European root *men- "think"[1]) in Greek mythology, poetry and literature, are the goddesses of the inspiration of literature, science and the arts. They were considered the source of the knowledge, related orally for centuries in the ancient culture, that was contained in poetic lyrics and myths. Maybe there is a connection between Moussaka and the "Mousses/Muses?" 101.162.207.145 (talk) 07:01, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

I am not sure if your comment is intended to be humorous or serious. But in any case, WP is not built on its editors' speculation, but on reliable sources. --Macrakis (talk) 03:18, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Since all noted recipes contain tomato but tomato was discovered in the New World, it seems no form of Moussaka can be more than 500 years old, therefore it can't have any tie to ancient Greece, Egypt, Turkey, et al 64.66.218.49 (talk) 00:28, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Even if it's true that all noted modern recipes contain tomato, that doesn't erase the possibility that those recipes are all descended from variations of non-tomato recipes that had tomatoes added to them when they became available. But, as Macrakis noted above, we don't go by speculation. Largoplazo (talk) 03:27, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Directly from Arabic

It seems there is no evidence that arabic word "moussaka" came to Greek language from Turkish and not direclty from Arabic.

It is important to remind that Anatolia was a multi-cultural area and that many Greeks lived there. So it could have come directly from Arabic to all languages spoken in Anatolia, including Greek and Turkish.

I found no research about this.

Simple etymological dictionaries don't seem enough to prove this.

That's why I put "or directly from Arabic" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.141.31.4 (talk) 23:54, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Etymological dictionaries are the best sources we have for this sort of thing. The Andriotis dictionary says it's a Turkish word originally from Arabic; the Babiniotis dictionary doesn't even mention the ultimate Arabic origin. Though "it could have" come directly from Arabic, we have no reliable sources for that. --Macrakis (talk) 03:18, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

The wikipedia article says it comes from mussakhan, but that's incorrect. Mussakhan is a different dish, the correct name is mussaqa'a as referenced in the section above the erroneous one. The funny thing is that mussakhan means "heated up" and mussaqa'a means "cooled down". One involves precooking chicken, shredding it, and then heating it up in oil and spices as part of the plating (normally it's wrapped in thin bread or served on top of a thicker bread in whole pieces). The eggplant dish on the other hand is cooled down before serving. Someone please edit out mussakhan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2C6:4E00:110F:ED42:C05C:EB20:E2FD (talk) 19:52, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

I can confirm the above as well as point out that the source cited is a blog speculating about whether it may be the case that the words or dishes may be related when in fact they have nothing to do with each other. Hilltoptree (talk) 17:45, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

It should be "that which was left to cool down" not "that which is fed liquid". This makes more sense, considering that Egyptian moussaka is preferably eaten cold. That is also the definition of the word in many Arabic dialects, but the word does not actually exist in modern standard Arabic. Unfortunately I couldn't find a proper source for this, but I know this from my dialect. Ifdyourgoats (talk) 13:19, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Nationalistic edit-warring

For about 12 days, editors have been adding their nations as originators of this dish to this article, excluding others. This has got to stop. the latest edit cites a source which does not back up its claim. If this activity continues, I will request semiprotection for this article.   — Jeff G. ツ 16:30, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Twelve days? It's been going on for the lifetime of the article. Scratch that: it's been going on for the lifetime of the dish. Ibadibam (talk) 19:48, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 October 2021

In Egypt, Messa'aa can be made Vegan /Vegetarian or with meat, with the main ingredient in both is the fried eggplants.

to

In Egypt, Messa'aa can be made Vegan /Vegetarian or with meat, with the main ingredient in both being the fried eggplants.

Unless I am mistaken the current version is not grammatically correct. Carllacan (talk) 11:18, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done The sentence needed even more work than that, so I generally copyedited it. Largoplazo (talk) 11:46, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Ottoman?

@Largoplazo: In these edits, the word "Ottoman" was removed from the short description with the comment that it made it sound historical. But Ottoman cuisine is "the cuisine of the Ottoman Empire and its continuation in the cuisines of Turkey, Greece, the Balkans, and parts of the Caucasus and the Middle East." (my emphasis). It describes a regional cuisine, not a time period. Perhaps "Eastern Mediterranean" would be easier for people to understand, but SD has a pretty strict character count limit.... On the other hand, "Mediterranean" alone would be wrong, because (a) it isn't a standard dish in Italy, Spain, Morocco, etc. (b) it can be confused with Mediterranean diet, which is something else again. --Macrakis (talk) 15:08, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

@Macrakis: I stand corrected. I had just never heard of "Ottoman" being used to describe the modern culinary ways of that area. Largoplazo (talk) 16:13, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

It’s important to identify the origin

Musakka has always been known as an Egyptian dish. My dad who was born in 1939 has always spoken about his grand mother cooking musakka. The only evidence people use to say Musakka is Greek is a book written by a Greek chef around 1922 (I guess) in which he included a recipe for Musakka but he never said it was originally Greek. Musakka is known in Egypt as the food of the poor since it’s often eaten cold with no need for a stove “Musakka”. The literal translation of Musakka is “cold”. The other Arabic speaking countries use the word “bared” to mean “cold” whereas in the Egyptian dialect people say “sakee” from which Musakka comes. 2607:FEA8:D1A3:D000:D578:83DA:B625:418 (talk) 13:58, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

The article doesn't say it's specifically from Greece. Conversely, that your father's grandmother served it in Egypt doesn't establish where it originated. Largoplazo (talk) 14:25, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

eggplant OR potatoe?

The first sentence "Moussaka is an eggplant- or potato-based dish" doesn't fit in with the rest oft the article. -Most variants seem to be eggplant-based, potatoes are an optional addition. For example, the linked wikibook-recipe comes without potatoes. As I understand it, most versions come with eggplant, and other vegetables, such as zucchini or potatoes, are sometimes added or substituted. My suggestion: Moussaka (/muːˈsɑːkə/, UK also /ˌmuːsəˈkɑː/, US also /ˌmuːsɑːˈkɑː/) is an eggplant-based dish, often including ground meat, which is common in the Balkans and the Middle East, with many local and regional variations. Ckraaa (talk) 16:14, 24 September 2023 (UTC)