Talk:Morning Musume Tanjō 10nen Kinentai

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Regarding 10-nen/10 Nen[edit]

I saw the note left to me in an edit summary by User:Abarry (here) right after I added info to it under this article name (instead of redirect), so I'm going to go request a move now. -- Tydus Arandor 05:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So should the song "Jūnen Ai" from "Bokura ga Ikiru My Asia" be written as "Jū Nen Ai"? ☆CharlesNguyễn 15:04, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. JPG-GR (talk) 05:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

Apparently, Tydus had made a request to move this article from "10-nen" article to "10 Nen" article. I disagree though. It's because the nen (年) here is used as a counter for years, and not as a noun. Since it's used as a counter, nen should be attached to 10; so, it should be either 10nen or 10-nen. 10nen, however, is more common than 10-nen. Eugh jei ♥ Kaorin 13:49, 23 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. Moving to Morning Musume Tanjō 10-Nen Kinentai would make more sense. --DAJF (talk) 01:29, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I really am a bit indecisive between "10nen" and "10-nen." The former is more common among fans, and provides more results when you search it on search engines. On the other hand, the latter is how Japanese words with counters should be romanized (1, 2). I think this should be discussed in MOS:JP. One more thing, I really don't see why nen should be capitalized. It's a counter. Is there a reason why it should be capitalized? Eugh jei ♥ Kaorin 03:10, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Aervanath (talk) 15:42, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move Anthony Appleyard (talk) 17:32, 24 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2[edit]

Okay, I requested this article to be moved to Morning Musume Tanjō 10nen Kinentai because of the following reasons:

  1. Nen (年) here is used as a counter, not as a noun. Therefore, it shouldn’t be capitalized and must be attached to the number 10—either 10nen or 10-nen; and
  2. Between those two possible ways of writing 10年, 10nen is much more common than 10-nen.

Last time, there weren’t a lot of discussion about the move and, eventually, it resulted to nothing. So here it is again, and please help out with the discussion. Eugh jei ♥ Kaorin 13:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - as stated less than a month ago. Where is "10nen" much more common? Standard practice for romanized Japanese is to use a hyphen, as indicated in the two sources you yourself quoted last time. --DAJF (talk) 15:32, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Jūnen is more common than jū-nen on Wikipedia, per Google. A native Japanese speaker at WT:MOS-JP seems to think they are one word, and the current MOS is silent on the subject. I don't think there's a standard practice as far as Wikipedia is concerned. As we use Tenth, not 10th, etc., it seems to me we could just use Morning Musume Tanjō Jūnen Kinentai. Per WP:MOS-JP#Titles of books and other media, we don't need to be held hostage by the Japanese typography. Dekimasuよ!
      • When I said that "10nen is common," I was referring to the group's name ("Morning Musume Tanjō 10nen Kinentai"), not just the 10nen part. I was just specifically focusing on the said part because that is the center of the problem here. So, I'm sorry if there was any confusion. Now about the suggestion. I understand that we don't have to follow the way the group's name was originally written, but there's a problem. Like what I have said above, it's common. People (i.e. fans) refer to the group as Morning Musume Tanjō 10nen Kinentai, neither as Morning Musume Tanjō Jūnen Kinentai nor as Morning Musume Tanjō 10 Nen Kinentai nor even as Morning Musume Tanjō 10-nen Kinentai—but there are some that actually do. Eugh jei ♥ Kaorin 09:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • It isn't evident to me that there is a common term. I got 2000 total Google hits for the "10nen" version, but 7000 for the "10 nen" version, which includes the hits for the hyphenated version. If there's no consistency in the English version, then there is no common form. (As a Japanese speaker, it seems to me that they aren't really separate words, so I personally don't prefer having the space.) Dekimasuよ! 02:17, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Whenever I try doing the Google test, Google asks me this: "Did you mean: Morning Musume Tanjou 10nen Kinentai". Just by that, I can tell that "Morning Musume Tanjō 10nen Kinentai" is common. Eugh jei ♥ Kaorin 03:31, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • I don't think that's really evidence of what is meant by "common" in the context of the naming convention. "Common" can be used to mean "the same for everyone" as well as "widespread". Dekimasuよ! 16:41, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
              • Okay, I guess I should say the name "Morning Musume Tanjō 10nen Kinentai" is well-recognized. Eugh jei ♥ Kaorin 11:49, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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