Talk:Monsey Hanukkah stabbing

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Page name[edit]

Since another stabbing took place in Monsey in November 2019, I think this page should be renamed. 2019 Monsey Hanukkah stabbing seems to be the most logical name. Yoninah (talk) 21:55, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, as I named it in the infobox. Shemtov613 (talk) 00:14, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A small point, but you don't stab with a machete -you cut by slashing- but that that's the way English works, apparently. kencf0618 (talk) 12:14, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The news sources are not clear about whether it was a knife or a machete; waiting for the official version. Yoninah (talk) 12:19, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Race of the assailant[edit]

@Yoninah:Why the deletion of the perpetrators race? It's referenced in the news (see ref #3)

@Jim Michael: I just took it out of the lead since it was unsourced. Feel free to add it with a source in the body of the article. Yoninah (talk) 12:13, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The unsigned comment in this section was by Calidrago.

I've added it to the suspect section. It's backed by the Jerusalem Post ref. Jim Michael (talk) 12:24, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Calidrago (talk) 14:05, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image upload[edit]

Is this image applicable for upload? [1]. Yoninah (talk) 20:18, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Hanukkah[edit]

Should article be included in Category:Hanukkah? We don't know the motivation of the suspect. It is safe to assume the motivation is antisemitism. But is the motivation at all Hanukkah-oriented? By what stretch of the imagination is this a Hanukkah-themed incident? Did the suspect attack because he was irritated about Hanukkah celebrations? No, this is not known to be a Hanukkah-oriented attack. Probably an antisemitic attack, but not necessarily a Hanukkah-themed attack. Inclusion in the Category for Hanukkah is problematic because we do not know that Hanukkah had anything to do with this attack, and I'm opposing edits such as this, saying "it happened at a Hanukkah party". I don't think that is a good enough reason for inclusion in the Category. Bus stop (talk) 20:45, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that the perpetrator was looking for a gathering, any gathering. It happened to have been a Hannukah party and therefore I support mentioning it in the header though I agree that does not belong in Category:Hanukkah. Shemtov613 (talk) 22:48, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's reported by the mainstream media as a targeted antisemitic attack at a Hanukkah party at a rabbi's house rather than a random attack by someone looking for a gathering of any type to attack. Hanukkah is so relevant to this attack that it's one of this article title's 3 words. It's of similar relevance as Bastille Day is to the 2016 Nice truck attack & Christmas is to the 2013 Baghdad Christmas Day bombings. Jim Michael (talk) 23:34, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Michael—what does Hanukkah have to do with this incident? Bus stop (talk) 23:56, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Bus stop. We do not include the Passover massacre under Category:Passover or any other antisemitic attack under the holiday on which it happened to occur. Instead, we categorize by type of incident (terrorist attack, mass murder) and date. Yoninah (talk) 00:41, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We should, because it took place at a Passover Seder. As with this event & the 2 which I mentioned above, they didn't merely happen to take place during those holidays, they targeted particular demographics because those people would be gathered in large numbers to celebrate them. It wasn't coincidental or tangential. Jim Michael (talk) 11:50, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Of course we shouldn't because the incident has nothing to do with the holiday. Bus stop (talk) 14:36, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Even though the gathering which was attacked was a celebration of that holiday? Jim Michael (talk) 16:49, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As I've asked you before—what does Hanukkah have to do with this incident? Bus stop (talk) 17:17, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It was an attack which took place at a Hanukkah celebration; it was likely timed & targeted due to that. It didn't merely happen during the duration of Hanukkah. Jim Michael (talk) 02:39, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Michael: No. Look at all the cats under 2019 Sri Lanka Easter bombings. No one expects to look under Category:Easter and see a list of bombings. On the other hand, Category:Attacks on Easter would be an appropriate categorization. Yoninah (talk) 01:44, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As we don't have cats that are specific to attacks against particular types of celebration, it would make sense for the 2019 Sri Lanka Easter bombings to be in Category:Easter, because they were attacks timed for Easter against people who'd gathered to celebrate it. Jim Michael (talk) 02:39, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Jim Michael that this article belongs in Category:Hanukkah. It has to do with Hanukkah because a) it happened on Hanukkah, and b) Hanukkah is in the title, which demonstrates how central it is to the day. This question has nothing to do with the relevance of the holiday in the suspect's plans, i.e. it would be true even if he knew nothing about the nature of the gathering at the rabbi's house. We have 1991 Halloween blizzard and Halloween solar storms, 2003 in Category:Halloween when both events have no other connection to the holiday besides chronologically. StonyBrook (talk) 03:22, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

StonyBrook—what does Hanukkah have to do with this incident? Bus stop (talk) 03:41, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't. StonyBrook (talk) 05:13, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Suspect" section[edit]

I was reading this article and happened to notice the claim that "The attacker is the US citizen son of an illegal alien who got amnesty under the 1986 amnesty law for illegal immigrants" is a direct quote from Trump administration official Ken Cuccinelli (see the Washington Post's reporting cited in this article). That exact phrase appears in this article as an unquoted statement of fact. I think the statement should be deleted altogether, but at the very least it needs to be attributed since it is a direct quote from a government official.Jaime ny 14 (talk) 04:54, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]