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Let's talk, indeed! This page looks like it was highjacked by someone in a Beijing propaganda office. (Seriously, was it?) "The Chinese offered the fiercest resistance of among all the Mongols fought...the Mongols required every single advantage they ould gain and "every military artifice known at that time" in order to win..." This article has become the redoubt of someone's very one-sided historical viewpoint and needs some objective TLC to get rid of the exclamation points and the unscholarly opinion-plugging (clearly, tragically, etc. etc.)... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.104.75.146 (talk) 07:05, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In the "Surrender of Song China (1268-76)" section you say...
...there was the Mongol advance stopped at the city of Xianyang situated on the Han river controlling access to the Yangtze river, the gateway to Hangzhou (Canton).
Hangzhou is not Canton. Canton is Guangzhou and is 800 miles away in south China no where near the Yangtze. Hangzhou is still Hangzhou. VFF0347 (talk) 21:28, 24 October 2013 (UTC) VFF0347[reply]
The Mongols used 2 to 3 million forcibly conscript Central Asian Muslims in their conquest[edit]
The Mongols used 2 to 3 million forcibly conscript Central Asian Muslims in their conquest of China.
According to some contemporary sources, between two and three million Muslim conscripts from Muslim Central Asia were forcibly brought into China by the Mongols. Suffering from various brutalities, these Turco-Persian groups retained ...
Pu Shougeng (P'u Shou-keng) was either the descendant of an Arab, Persian, or South Asian Muslim trading family, and in charge of maritime trade in Quanzhou after being appointed by the Song. He betrayed the city to the Mongols and massacred several thousand members of the Song Imperial family. However, since the Song Imperial family was so large with tens of thousands of members, many of them still survived. See sources at Talk:House of Zhao
In revenge, during the Ispah Rebellion, Pu Shougeng's descendants and other foreign merchants were massacred, his family's graves and bodies were desecrated, and his lineage was condemned to disgrace during the Ming dynasty.
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The material your modified and partially removed were referenced to a variety of secondary sources by historians. They're not the "original sources" (although of course they ultimately derive from "original sources").
Wikipedia is built upon using reliable sources. You need to demonstrate that the material you remove is wrong or unreliable. You also need to demonstrate that the material you add is correct and reliable. Here, you're using a primary source (Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư), the official history of (effectively) the following Vietnamese dynasty. Such primary sources should only be used cautiously per WP:PRIMARY and WP:NPOV.
As you may see, maintaining a neutral point of view and using secondary sources is heavily emphasized at the English Wikipedia. In general, provide evidence and arguments to back up anything you may add, remove, or change in articles. — MarkH21talk 08:14, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fabricated antihistorical fantasy in en.wikipedia[edit]
12月12日（阴历），蒙古军将领兀良哈台从云南率领三万大军侵占大越国的平厉原（Bình Lệ Nguyên）地区。陳太宗親行督戰。而陳軍起初較為弱勢，太宗回視亲信，只有黎秦勇敢前行，单骑出入敌阵，神情自若。安南军队摆出了步象骑兵的混合阵势，仍被兀良哈台击溃。当时有人谏言陈太宗驻驿视战，黎秦建议先退避为好。陈太宗退避瀘江，但後來仍不敵強大的蒙古軍，退守天幕江（在今越南興安省），國都昇龍（今河內市）失陷。在這危急關頭，太宗乘船向太尉欽天王陳日晈商討對策，陳日晈卻態度沮喪，在船邊用手指點水，然後在船舷寫「入宋」二字，表示不如前去投靠南宋。陳煚再問太師陳守度，陳守度的答案則是「臣首未至地，陛下無煩他慮」，表示仍願意抵抗，使陳煚重拾戰意。元军只得到一座空城，仅待了九天，以暑热难耐兼之粮食已尽，被迫撤军。農曆12月24日，陳煚及太子陳晃乘坐樓船，在東步頭擊敗蒙古軍隊。蒙古軍撤退路上又遭到安南地方豪族武装的袭
On December 12 (the lunar calendar) - 17th January 1258, Mongolian army general Uriyangqatai led 30,000 troops from Yunnan to invade the Bình Lệ Nguyên area of the Đại Việt. Emperor Chen Taizong personally supervised the battle. However, Chen Jun was relatively weak at first. Taizong looked back on his relatives. Only Li Qin (Lý Tần) was brave to go forward, riding alone to enter the enemy line, with a calm expression. The Annanese army put on a mixed position of infantry cavalry, which was still defeated by feigned retreat tactic of Uriyangqatai. At that time, some people said that Chen Taizong was stationed in the station to fight, Li Qin suggested that he should retreat first. Chen Taizong retreated from the Minjiang River, but was still defeated by the powerful Mongolian army. He retreated to the Tianmu (Thiên Môn) River (in today's Vietnam's Xing'an Province) and the national capital Thang Long (now Hanoi) fell and ransacked. At this critical juncture, Taizong took a boat to discuss the countermeasures with prince Trần Nhật Cảnh,.. But Nhật Dụât was frustrated. He pointed his finger at the water near the ship, and then wrote the word "into the song" on the side of the ship. Better go to the Southern Song Dynasty. Chen Kun asked Taishi again Trần Thủ Độ, and Chen Shoudu's answer was "the minister did not reach the ground, and His Majesty did not bother him." He said that he was still willing to resist, so that Chen Hui regained his war intentions. The Yuan army only got an empty city, and it only stayed for nine days. The food was exhausted due to the heat of the summer, and it was forced to withdraw. On the 24th day of the lunar calendar (28th January 1258), Chen Yi and his prince Chen Huang took a house boat and defeated the Mongolian army at Dongbutou (Đông Bộ Đầu). On the way back, the Mongolian army was attacked by the Hao ethnic group in Annan and suffered heavy losses. When retreating to Guihuazhai, they were attacked by the barbarian tribal 何 俸 (Hà Bổng), and eventually withdrew from Vietnam.</ref>[1][2][3][4]
Pro-Mongol fantasy western sources said the Mongols raided deep into Song empire and occupied Thăng Long for one year is totally nonsense and fabricated history. They even are not 1% reliable and most were written based on unreal Vietnam war jungle memes fantasy.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:204:E37F:FFF1:64C6:7192:AFE9:C59C (talk)
Again, you’re relying on official history primary sources. Rather than just claiming them as Vietnam war jungle memes fantasy, maybe provide evidence that anyone reliable besides you thinks so. Particularly when there are multiple reliable sources, both from historian and academic sources here, contradicting you. — MarkH21talk 15:15, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Re this revert, we have multiple sources, including primary sources like An Nam chí lược, and secondary source like the Haw article which state:
It has even been claimed that they were somehow forced to withdraw from Annam at this time (1258). This is based on an incorrect understanding of Chinese source material, which says that the Mongol forces, led by Uriyangkhadai, withdrew from the Annamese capital after only nine days, because of the unhealthy climate.30 Other records, however, state that the Annamese king submitted, and that the army then returned to Yachi (modern Kunming). Shortly afterwards, in 1259，Uriyangkhadai's Yunnan army invaded the Song empire from Annam (Jiaozhi) and advanced towards modern Nanning...
Your continued assertion of a single primary source and your POV is disruptive if you refuse to discuss anything. — MarkH21talk 22:06, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done - Boneyard90 (talk) 10:40, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
