Talk:Mohammad Fahim

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Untitled[edit]

Please consider all of the following points before making any further changes.

Point # 1.

You said that recent sources state otherwise, which recent sources?

    • 1. NPS: For you information, it cites the following as its sources:

Abdullah Qazi Mohammad Qasim (May 2005) http://www.afghan-web.com/bios/today/fahim.html and Global Security Mohammad Qasim Fahim, at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/afghanistan/fahim.htm

Both sources used by NPS report, contain information contrary to the claim that he was a Soviet trained intelligence officer.

    • 2. The Independent UK, date 13 September 2003

Fahim began his career as a Soviet-trained intelligence officer in the KHAD secret police in the 1970s and 80s, [1]

This claim is as old as any other claim, for a counter, see the Guardian 2001 Also, the book Contemporary Afghanistan by Bhatia was published in 2007, and is a recent work, more recent than 2003 with information contrary to the claim that he was a Soviet trained intelligence officer.

    • 3. Claim by CDI Russia

Fahim abandoned Najibullah when his government fell in 1992, and joined the forces of Ahmad Shah Massoud, [7]

Counter # 1:

“He acted as the United Front’s chief intelligence officer during the Soviet occupation, joining Ahmad Shah Massoud and the Jamiat-e-Islami party in the 1970s. When the Soviets withdrew in 1989, Fahim entered the city with Massoud, remaining in the capital to fend off attacks from Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and then the Taliban, until the latter seized control in 1996.” (29, April, 2008) http://quqnoos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=491&Itemid=85 Quqnoos is a reliable source, a news source sponsored by Afghanistan’s most popular TV station Tolo.

Counter # 2.

“Marshal Fahim was particularly popular among people in the north, because he had fought Soviet Russia, and later the Taleban and Al-Qa'idah.” Erada Weekly, 2005, http://e-ariana.com/ariana/eariana.nsf/allPrintDocs/353879aa059f22a687256f980038dbc1!OpenDocument&Click Erada is a well known Afghan Weekly

The above article has been cited by the UK Home Office at: www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/afghanistan_311006.doc

Point # 2.

      • 1. Fahim is a Mojahiddeen and a founding member of Shura ye Nezar

Please familiarize yourself with the meaning of the word Mojahiddeen or Mujhahiddeen in the context of Afghanistan’s contemporary history. A person is a Mojahideen if he fought the Soviet Union during the 1980s.

It is common knowledge in Afghanistan that Fahim is a former Mojahideen. Members of communist regime who defected to the Mojahideen in the early 1990s are never referred to as Mojahideen.

See the following recent sources with references to Fahim as a Mojahideen leader,

http://www.pajhwok.com/viewstory.asp?lng=eng&id=32309 Pajhwok News http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0226/p06s01-wosc.html Christian Science Monitor http://quqnoos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=491&Itemid=85

and also:

“Dr Gholam Faruq Nejrabi, head of the Afghan Independence Party ... describes him as one of those mojahedin who made efforts to defend Afghanistan and jihad.” "Marshal Fahim is a prominent member of Jamiat-e Eslami-e Afghanistan [party] and his social status cannot be damaged".

Erada Weekly, 2005, http://e-ariana.com/ariana/eariana.nsf/allPrintDocs/353879aa059f22a687256f980038dbc1!OpenDocument&Click Erada is a well known Afghan Weekly

      • 2. Member of Shura ye Nezar - Pre 1992

Afghanistan Justice Project accuses Fahim, as the director of Shura-i Nazar’s national security department— of allegedly being being aware of human rights abuses in the Legdey camp in the period of 1989-1992.

See pages 57-58 of the 2005 Afghan Justice Project report at:

http://afghanistanjusticeproject.org/warcrimesandcrimesagainsthumanity19782001.pdf

Also see Human Rights Watch http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2005/07/05/afghanistan-bring-war-criminals-justice

      • 3. 1982 Video of Ahmad Shah Massoud and Fahim

If you are curious, please this 1982 video of Ahmad Shah Massoud addressing his Mujahideen. Fahim can be seen sitting among the crowd, 3rd person on the left of where Massoud is standing and later sits.

For exact scenes remember the following timings:

Between the 1:07 minutes and 1:12, also 40 seconds later, and about 1:07 minutes later as well.

http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/index.php?vue=notice&from=fulltext&full=massoud&datedif_annee1=1982&num_notice=2&total_notices=10

Please note that Shura ye Nezar was a supervisory council of mostly northern Mujahideen established in mid 1980s, for more information about its history and composition, please see the book: The Fragmentation of Afghanistan by Barnett R. Rubin

Again, please avoid removing important information, Wikipedia policy of NPOV requires neutrality with regards to the different claims, that can only be achieved with providing counter information.

Consider all of the above information before you make any further changes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.148.101 (talk) 00:54, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

File:Mohammad Fahim of Afghanistan in March 2011-cropped.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

An image used in this article, File:Mohammad Fahim of Afghanistan in March 2011-cropped.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests March 2012
What should I do?

Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.

  • If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
  • If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.

To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Mohammad Fahim of Afghanistan in March 2011-cropped.jpg)

This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 02:12, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Who did Fahim back in 2004?[edit]

This article states that Fahim in 2004, after being dropped from the ticket by Karzai, backed the candidacy of his fellow Tajik, Yunus Qanuni. However, the article 2004 in Afghanistan states that Fahim endorsed Karzai. What is true? Diedtc (talk) 14:08, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Mohammed Fahim. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 09:13, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Mohammed Fahim. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:52, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Mohammed Fahim. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:21, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:52, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth?[edit]

In reading the article titled: "Mohammed Fahim" I could not fail to notice an (for lack of a better term) outstanding bias possibly towards praising and bragging on this figurehead for so-called Afghanistan reform was obviously present. Glorifying an otherwise war criminal who may well have been prosecuted for his war crimes at a later date if not for his natural death in 22014, is an obvious clue as to the article's seeming bias. Yet, when watching the new video by Washington Post concerning "The Afghanistan Papers" (1), they more or less outright condemned this warlord for his treachery, bloodthirstiness and murderous pathological tendencies (@ 13:30 minutes in).

Yes, I know we are not supposed to speak derogatorily of a person on these pages, but this is beyond derogatory if the facts are facts and not bias or berating rumors, but actual facts of history noted and referenced at the end of this message. I feel in Wikipedia's yearning for the truth, it's whole-hearted drive towards that end, then the truth should be told, any bias corrected, and truths and facts be requested if not demanded to be added.

To note, Mohammed Fahim was well known as a warlord and supplied his mercenary troops for hire. He was openly condemned for "dipping into the til" when found to be stealing millions in reparation funds. He was openly condemned for murder or the arrangement of murdering his opponents or adversaries in his political life. He was refused (withdrawn) his bid for vice president because of this, but later awarded the office and position in Afghanistan anyway. Other sources were well known for pointing out the criminality and murderous tendencies of Fahim. (5)

https://returngood.wordpress.com/tag/mohammed-qasim-fahim/

v v v ------------------------------------

"You can learn all about Fahim and Khalili in a Human Rights Watch report titled (and I’m not even kidding) "Blood-Stained Hands" which details the war crimes for which they and their subordinates were responsible. - Warlords and drug lords like Mohammed Qasim Fahim, Haji Mohammed Mohaqiq and Abdul Rashid Dostum dominate the U.S.-backed government in Kabul. They’re one of several reasons why the government on whose behalf we’re fighting a counterinsurgency in Afghanistan is not worth another American dime or drop of blood. (Stay tuned for a continuation of my series, “Meet Your Afghan Warlords,” to learn more about the thugs dominating Karzai’s regime.)"

Mohammad Qasim Fahim, one of two vice-presidential candidates put forward yesterday by Mr Karzai, is notorious for his role in Afghanistan’s civil war of the 1990s. As a commander of the Jamiat-e-Islami militia, he was named by Human Rights Watch in its 2005 report "Blood Stained Hands" as a key commander in the Afshar Massacre. About 800 members of the Shia Muslim Hazara minority were killed in a bout of murder, rape and looting in a civilian area of Kabul in September 1992.

More on the Afshar Massacre from Blood Stained Hands:

As the report shows, in the lead-up to the attack, hundreds of people were killed in indiscriminate or intentional attacks on civilian homes, and thousands more were displaced. As documented here, militias murdered scores of civilians in front of their homes during the attack. Hundreds more were abducted and never seen again. Fahim’s militia was implicated in the above-referenced Human Rights Watch report in war crimes which included:

deliberate targeting of civilians indiscriminate targeting of civilians abductions killings of civilians in non-combat situations robberies and general criminality Fahim is a warlord and a war criminal. U.S. policymakers have tasked American troops with killing and dying on his behalf in a misbegotten counterinsurgency campaign. The reason? Well, he didn’t like the Taliban. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/security/news/2009/10/26/6734/profiles-of-afghan-power-brokers/ (2) 

----------------------- v v v ------------

"By 2002, the C.I.A. had evidence that Fahim was involved in Afghanistan’s drug trade. That same year an investigation of housing rights in Afghanistan by a representative of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights found that Fahim was illegally occupying land and recommended that he be removed from his post. Fahim remained defense minister until 2004 and was briefly a running mate to President Karzai as first vice president in that year’s general election. Karzai eventually dropped him from the ticket as a result of significant pressure from the international community. Fahim became a founding member of the United National Front, formed as a parliamentary bloc to oppose Karzai. Karzai once again chose Fahim as his running mate for the presidential election in 2009, a move that was both publicly and privately criticized by various international diplomats, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton."

SO we can read that Fahim formed the "United National Front" and had that in purpose to pose as a real threat to Karzai, playing warlord then politician, forcing Karzai to reopen the offer as vice president to Fahim. We have to note that Fahim was already worth millions from his drug trade and personal property ownership. His yearning was for a leadership role, and the wealth, power and control that went with it.

Anyone concerned with the accuracy of such claims against Fahim need only take the few minutes to watch and listen to the video provided and authored by the Washington Post that was mentioned at the start of this message, "The Afghanistan Papers" to get a fully accurate rendering of his life and deeds (mid-video). A glorified hero of Afghanistan he was not, although for all political and propaganda purposes he was, with a stadium even named after himself. In truth he was worse than Putin, murdering adversaries and vehemently oppressing anyone he felt he could squeeze a profit from. But this was common for warlords of the era in Afghanistan, if not even still so today. So this message is not for the sole purpose of denigrating Fahim but rather is shared to shed the light on the truth about a man who was bloodthirsty and vile, a criminal at heart.

Bringing to light that this is not merely my own "biased" dissenting opinion of Fahim, here is an additional article showing the true background of a warlord turned politician:

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/06/30/afghan-group-slams-karzai-s-warlord-vote-ticket.html Afghan group slams Karzai’s ‘warlord’ vote ticket (4)

Quotes: excerpted material 

        "Another "ruthless warlord" Mohammad Muhaqiq came out in public support for Karzai because he was promised two provinces and at least three ministries in government, ARM said.

An Afghan rights watchdog on Tuesday slammed President Hamid Karzai's choice of two "notorious warlords" for his August re-election bid and accused him of promising ministries to supporters. In a report, the independent Afghanistan Rights Monitor (ARM) called on the United States and United Nations, which are bankrolling the landmark election, to intervene in defence of democracy. Karzai has successfully squashed challenges to his two vice president running mates, Mohammed Qasim Fahim and Karim Khalili, ARM said.

Hamid Karzai with Fahim and Khalili

Human Rights Watch: "He [Fahim] is widely believed by many Afghans to be still involved in many illegal activities, including running armed militias, as well as giving cover to criminal gangs and drug traffickers." Both are believed to have links with illegal militia and criminal groups, it said, adding Karzai "has chosen two notorious warlords as his election mates in a bid to win votes from former mujahideen militias." Human Rights Watch and Western diplomats have complained in particular over Fahim, a former anti-Soviet and anti-Taliban military commander alleged to be involved in past and present crimes. In its report "The Winning Warlords," ARM said challenges were registered to bar Fahim and Khalili from standing on August 20 over alleged war crimes and crime but a "corrupt procedure" allowed them into the vote.

"'The poll is the second presidential election in Afghan history but ARM said pre-election deals to sew up the result had dashed hopes it would allow Afghans to exercise new-found democracy.'"

"'Undemocratic forces that have constantly gained power and wealth over the past several years seem to be hijacking the election process to ensure their future interests and legitimize their grip on political and public institutions. He (Karzai) has chosen as his vice-presidential running mates former guerrilla leader Mohammad Qasim Fahim, a Tajik from Afghanistan's second-largest ethnic group, and Hazara leader Karim Khalili. Kabul-based ARM said warlords and other factional leaders had become rich after helping U.S.-led forces topple the Taliban and that such people had "no respect for democratic principles and will block reforms and modernity'". Reuters, Jun. 30, 2009

"'These forces which include former and current warlords, militia commanders and human rights abusers have money, power and influence across the country which make them incomparably stronger than the ordinary voters,' it said."

So anyone seeking the truth can see that there was a lot more propaganda praising Fahim than there seems to be actual references to his criminal and bloody murderous life. But then what does one expect from a warlord in a country that had its major profit from unreported export of opium from the agricultural harvesting of the poppy?

References: (1) https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/ @ 13:30 minutes in (2) https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/security/news/2009/10/26/6734/profiles-of-afghan-power-brokers/ - "Qasim Mohammed Fahim" (3) https://www.dawn.com/news/620735 Buzkashi: Afghan game of carcasses and power (4) http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/06/30/afghan-group-slams-karzai-s-warlord-vote-ticket.html (5) https://returngood.wordpress.com/tag/mohammed-qasim-fahim/ POSTS TAGGED ‘MOHAMMED QASIM FAHIM’ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djd103 (talk • contribs) 01:58, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammad_Fahim&oldid=1195310957"