Talk:Milford Sound

Requested move 8 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc.talk 12:09, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

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Milford Sound / Piopiotahi → Milford Sound – "Milford Sound" is the clear WP:COMMONNAME of this fjord per Google ngrams. The proposed name has much wider use than the current name, having 50 news articles in the last year containing the proposed name compared to 30 with the current name. Scholarly articles also use the proposed name over the current name. Spekkios (talk) 04:05, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support per WP:CONCISE (the proposed name is half the length of the current name), WP:NATURAL (the proposed name is the most commonly used name, in ngrams, news results, and google scholar results per nom, as well as Google Trends results), and WP:PRECISE (titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but should be no more precise than that; the proposed title unambiguously defines the topic scope, while the current title is too precise). BilledMammal (talk) 04:17, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Clear common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:26, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

• Strong Support We got too many articles with Maori names floating around the web, it is getting quite annoying. I suspect that there is a political movement going on at the moment. If we tolerate this any further, they will want to change New Zealand, North Island, and South Island too. In Australia, the government will never allow this kind of thing to happen.

Let's just move all of them to their English names please:

Milford Sound / Piopiotahi → Milford Sound

Stewart Island / Rakiura → Stewart Island

Manawatāwhi / Three Kings Islands → Three Kings Islands

Snares Islands / Tini Heke → Snares Islands

Aoraki / Mount Cook → Mount Cook

Clutha River / Mata-Au → Clutha River

Codfish Island / Whenua Hou → Codfish Island

Whakaari / White Island → White Island, New Zealand

Thank you. 2001:8003:9008:1301:DD39:BB04:EBAD:D9F3 (talk) 08:14, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

• Strong oppose there are several flaws with the original argument of the move (including non-English sources, using sources from before the name was changed, not taking into account different conventions for the dual name and so on), which mean that the actual situation is nowhere near as clear as they paint it out to be. Usage figures are clouded by the township in the fiord being known as Milford Sound and various businesses which predate the change still using Milford Sound in their name, and when referring to the fiord itself variations of the dual name are much more common. The dual name (in all its forms) is extremely widespread (even on road signs) and meets all the requirements of WP:WIAN. Further to this, some recent usage (such as in the video game Civilization VI) refers to the fiord exclusively as Piopiotahi – while we don't artificially combine names on wikipedia, the fact that this is already a common form of the name means that we should use it in order to make the article as easy to find for all users, regardless of what they know the fiord as. I'm also not even going to engage with the abject fallacious racism directly above me. Turnagra (talk) 19:35, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

  Please show that variations of the dual name are more common. Also, Civilization VI has a Maori faction, which is why they use Piopiotahi. --Spekkios (talk) 20:45, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

  They have Vietnam as well, but they don't call Hạ Long Bay Vịnh Hạ Long Turnagra (talk) 10:24, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

  Probaby because it already includes the "Ha Long" part. Please show that variations of the dual name are much more common. --Spekkios (talk) 10:57, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

  Citing use of Piopiotahi as evidence of dual name use is arguing in bad faith at this point, Turnagra. You have made clear many times that you see dual names as one single name, not two names with equal status. If you want to suggest that we move this page to Piopiotahi, I (and others) will be more than happy to entertain that, but use of Piopiotahi is no more evidence for the dual name than use of Milford Sound is. On a personal note, I also suggest you reevaluate your attitude on this campaign of yours because at a certain point it will be regarded as disruptive. — HTGS (talk) 01:24, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

  I think you've misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to argue that use of Piopiotahi on its own is use of the dual name – of course it's not. My point was that there is some use of just Piopiotahi, as well as some use of just Milford Sound and some use of the dual name. Entirely separate from any questions about which is most common, the dual name is the easiest of the three for everyone to find, regardless of what they know the fiord as. Apologies if that portion wasn't clear. Turnagra (talk) 09:25, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support per BilledMammal. Milford Sound is the commonly used English name for the place. — HTGS (talk) 01:26, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.