Talk:Milam Residence

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 07:08, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

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Milam Residence

• ... that the Milam Residence is an oceanfront property with an orthogonal facade? Source: "...the rectangles and squares of the orthogonal facade..."
  • ALT1: ... that the Milam Residence (pictured) has a facade of geometric shapes which also serve a function? Source: The geometric facade is functional, too, as the wide openings are filled with glass that deflects harsh sunlight and wind.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Edgar P. Rucker

Created by Bruxton (talk). Self-nominated at 18:55, 27 January 2022 (UTC).

Interesting house, on fine sources, no copyvio obvious. The image is licensed and nicely abstract, but I believe that the other one in the article would clarify at a glance the house in its location, which was important for the architect. Both hooks work only with the image and are a bit boring otherwise, - I suggest to include something about the significance in architecture history. Let's strike the first and work on the other. I believe the boxes have more than one function, no? I have a few concerns about the article, not all needed for DYK (only a ref), but as you are heading for GA, you might be interested.

1. Unfamiliar with the architect's name, I assumed "of the Sarasota School ..." meant he did it as a student, - not the director ;)
2. I'd use the total image for the lead - as explained above, and use the other below the infobox to not sandwich the text.
3. Builder and owners appear only in the infobox, without reference. Please also mention them in the body, with a reference.
4. There's some repetition in the prose, please read once more and you'll see.
5. I think the Awards section has too much which isn't awards. NRHP - is that an award? I'd merge it all with the history section. The one true award stands out in the infobox. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:47, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

No need for you to strike (it broke the indenting), just let me know when done, and I'll look again. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:33, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Or rather:

good for DYK, and the other is the GA reviewer's job. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:38, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

• @Gerda Arendt: Thank you much for the helpful recommendations and the review. I appreciated the opportunity to improve the article. Bruxton (talk) 16:47, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

ALT1 to T:DYK/P3

Photos

I think the photos should be better. The main one is shot at an extremely distorted perspective. Architectural photos usually try to minimize distortions. They often use special tilt-shift lenses to make everything square. I think one of the first two of these would be better. Also, I think the side view should be at a different angle, I suggest the third one for that. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 21:01, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

• @Bubba73: Hi, I am ok with your choices. I probably changed the main photo about three times already. Bruxton (talk) 00:36, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

At one time you had this one, which doesn't suffer too badly from perspective distortion. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 07:59, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• @Bubba73: I changed the photos. I also added one to the DYK. Bruxton (talk) 23:26, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I think those are better. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 23:28, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Category

Why Category:Houses in Sarasota County, Florida? Also, does it count as an establishment? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 03:36, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

@Bubba73: Thanks much, I removed the first one yesterday and the other just now. Bruxton (talk) 16:51, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Milam Residence/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Rublov (talk · contribs) 21:23, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, I'm Rublov and I will be reviewing this article shortly. If you are interested, I also have a few articles awaiting GA review. Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 21:23, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Lead and infobox

 Done

• Lead could use some more details as it is rather short and does not give a good idea of the building's significance, besides being added to the NRHP. Some suggestions:
  • Perhaps mention it is an oceanfront property.
  • Specify that the facade is "unusual" or perhaps "striking", per the body.
  • Could also mention the House of the Year award.
• Unless the term is uncommon, consider calling it Sarasota Modern instead of the Sarasota School of Architecture because the latter sounds like an institution rather than a style.
• Link late modernism and Cubism in the infobox.
• Not sure that "3 car garage" is the intended usage for the parking template parameter; I'd omit it.

History

 Done

• main founders — "main" seems redundant to me, unless the Sarasota School had an unusually large number of founders?
• The 6,858-square-foot (637.1 m2) home... — I think this sentence belongs more in "Design" than in "History". Also, link Atlantic Ocean.
• Bit of a WP:PROSELINE issue here — there are three paragraphs that are very short.
• Paul Rudolph designed 60 homes in Florida — Technically the source says he designed "nearly" 60.
• Link National Register of Historic Places again as it is the first usage after the lead.
• She recognized the importance of the Rudolph-designed home and purchased it knowing that the repairs were estimated to be $1.3 million. — I'd rephrase this, something like At the time of purchase, the cost of repairs was estimated to be $1.3 million.

•  Not done The home appears on the cover of his 2002 book, Paul Rudolph: The Florida Houses. — Don't think this is really significant enough to include.

For this one, I included it because this home must have been one of his Paul Rudolph's greatest home designs (of almost 60) in order to have it on the cover of the book. I am not married to the idea, but thought I would give you the reasoning before erasing.

Design

 Done

• the windows and doors do not open — Really? The doors do not open? I guess the source says "none of the windows and doors on the ocean are operable", but it's not clear to me whether that means that the doors were never meant to open or that they have since become "inoperable" and require repair. Whereas the source explicitly says "he meant for the windows not to open".
• In keeping with the Sarasota School of Architecture ideology — Suggest the Sarasota ideology as less unwieldy.
• Sarasota History Alive — Is this a reliable source?
• Some of the prose in this section feels "essay-ish", like Rudolph attempted to blur the lines between inside and outside. One example of this method: ... and Another way that the architect followed the Sarasota School is to.... Try to rephrase so that the section is a straightforward factual description of the design of the building, with asides where necessary noting its adherence to the Sarasota School.

General comments

• Images are relevant and freely licensed.
• Copyright violation unlikely per Earwig.
• Per MOS:LAYOUT, the portals bar should come after the navboxes.

Optional comments

These changes are not required to meet the good article criteria, but you might consider making them anyway to improve the article.

• The first citation should list the newspaper as Sarasota Herald-Tribune, not just Herald Tribune.
• It appears that you are using the publisher parameter of the cite news template when you should be using work.
• For the reference to the Clifford Pearson article in "Further reading", could you provide a page range? The PDF is 314 pages long.
• Not a big deal, but the "Further reading" section uses a mix of handwritten citations and citation templates.
• If you wanted to bring this article to featured article status, you would probably be expected to rely more on the sources in "Further reading" which appear to be higher-quality than the ones that you cite.
• I don't think this article belong in Category:1961 in Florida, which only contains 3 other articles. Perhaps Category:1961 establishments in Florida?

I completed most of these items in the optional section.

Overall, just needs a little bit of work to be a GA. Putting on hold. Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 22:05, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

@Rublov: Thank you for the review, I know that it took a very long time to comb through the article and sources. I appreciate the hard work. I will do another proof read of the article but I have completed the suggestions with the exception of one item. I can erase the one last item about the book cover if the request to erase stands. Bruxton (talk) 02:15, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

@Bruxton: Great, I've left another set of comments below. Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 12:30, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Round 2

• It was designed by architect Paul Rudolph, who was a founder of the Sarasota School of Architecture and it was built in the style of Sarasota Modern. — This is a bit awkward and you shouldn't link both "Sarasota School of Architecture" and "Sarasota Modern" because they go to the same place. Do you need to mention the Sarasota School in the lead or can you just say It was designed by architect Paul Rudolph in the Sarasota Modern style?
• Bit of repetition in the sentences in the lead: "The late modernist home...", "The building was completed...", "The home was added..." How about The late modernist home has an unusual facade of large geometrical shapes facing the ocean. Completed in 1961, it was the Architectural Record's House of the Year in 1963. In 2016, it was added to the National Register of Historic Places. ?
• The "History" section repeats some of the information about the home's design in the "Design" section. I would omit It is an oceanfront property with an unusual facade featuring large open squares and rectangles which face the ocean. The openings in the facade are covered with glass to allow wide open views of the ocean.
• in the style of the Sarasota Modern by, architect Paul Rudolph. — stray comma
• In 1963 the home appears on the cover of Rudolph's 2002 book, Paul Rudolph: The Florida Houses. — I think "In 1963" is supposed to go with the next sentence? I see what you're trying to do with this sentence, but I think the source lets us even be more direct, because it says "It is iconic enough to have been used for the cover image on the 2002 book Paul Rudolph: The Florida Houses." So I think we can say something like "The home is considered one of Rudolph's most iconic residential designs".
• The last two sentences of the first paragraph of the "History" section are out of order chronologically.
• Is there any information about the house between 1969 and 2017?
• The building was put up for sale in 2017 and in 2020 Jonathan and Sheila Lee Davies purchased the building for $3.45 million , approximately $1 million under the asking price. — There is a space before the comma.
• Sheila Lee Davies is an Atlanta-based architect who decided to take on the task of repairing the building and site. She recognized the importance of the Rudolph-designed home and purchased it: at the time of purchase, the cost of repairs was estimated to be $1.3 million. — Suggest rephrasing to Sheila Lee Davies, an Atlanta-based architect, planned to repair the building, at an estimated cost of $1.3 million.
• I would make It is 6,858-square-foot (637.1 m2) home... the first sentence of the "Design" section.
• Ruduolph designed the home so that the windows and doors on the ocean side of the building, do not open. — Typo in Rudolph's name, and another stray comma. As before, I'm not sure it's accurate to say that "Rudolph designed the home... so that the doors... do not open". Do you have another source that corroborates this claim?

Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 12:30, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

@Ruбlov: Thanks again! I have Made corrections. I have hidden the part about the windows on the ocean side until I find another source. Bruxton (talk) 13:52, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Few more things

• Duplicate sentences in the lead: The late modernist home has an unusual facade of large geometrical shapes facing the ocean. and The home has an unusual facade of large geometrical shapes which face the ocean. Also, the first sentence already mentions that it faces the ocean so you don't need to mention it again.
• In 1963 The home won — "The" should not be capitalized, and there should be a comma after "In 1963".
• The sentence about the NRHP is still out of order chronologically.
• The home is 6,858-square-foot (637.1 m2) home is on two acres (0.81 ha) — The grammar in this sentence is mangled.
• The Milam residence was the first residential property... — "residence" should be capitalized.
• See Ɱ's comment in the section below; the Architectural Record describes it as one of twenty "Record Houses" rather than as the single "House of the Year". Also, the Architectural Record appears to have a good deal of information that you might wish to incorporate into the article, e.g. the cost of construction.

Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 17:14, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

@Ruбlov: thanks. Probably done Bruxton (talk) 19:45, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Okay, looks good to me. @Ɱ: are you satisfied? Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 20:27, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, I will make some final edits now. ɱ (talk) 01:35, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

If the primary writer wants to upload images from the Architectural Record magazines, feel free. I scanned through copyright renewal catalogs and found no entries - the images are {{PD-US-not renewed}}. ɱ (talk) 01:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

@Ɱ: Thanks, I uploaded a slew of them this am, along with architectural plans. under Category:Arthur Milam House on Commons Bruxton (talk) 01:53, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh, great! Add some to the article! ɱ (talk) 02:00, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Great, Bruxton happy to pass this now. Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 11:27, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

House of the Year?

I am skeptical of calling this the "House of the Year" for 1963. The Architectural Record issue describes 20 houses for the year equally; the Milam residence among them. The only other provided source, Jacksonville Magazine, is not ideal, and is written by a marketer. Can we call this "one of Architectural Record's 20 "Record Houses of 1963", as the architecture magazine describes them that way? ɱ (talk) 16:01, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

@Ɱ: Could be, I have added the actual pdf of the Journal. It received the honor in mid-May 1963. All of the references called it the house of the year 1963, but I can change it to reflect the fact that the journal mentions more than one. Bruxton (talk) 19:34, 11 April 2022 (UTC)