Talk:Math for America

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MƒA Programs in NYC

Potential COI disclosure: I work at Math for America. The following suggestions are made with the goal of improving the accuracy of this page.

The “MƒA Programs in New York City” section currently lists outdated fellowships offered by MƒA. MƒA no longer accepts applications for the MƒA Fellowship, and instead offers the MƒA Master Teacher Fellowship and MƒA Early Career Fellowship. References for the discontinuation of the MƒA Fellowship and shift to focusing on the MƒA Master Teacher Fellowship and MƒA Early Career Fellowship can be found here:, and additional information (though not a standalone source) can be found in an MƒA press release:

I suggest removing the MƒA Fellowship description from the section.

If the MƒA Fellowship must remain included on the page, I suggest creating a new sub-section indicating “Former Programs at MƒA.”

References

--J Wiki 9 (talk) 15:11, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello Editors.

I've been suggesting edits to the Math for America Wikipedia page for two months, and as of now none of the edits have been reviewed or implemented. Is there anyone that can help to make these edits? If there are any additional :methods to request edits besides the Talk page, please let me know. Our organization relies on having accurate information on our Wikipedia page. Thank you! J Wiki 9 (talk) 19:14, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi J Wiki, I came across a post on the administrator's noticeboard (note, I'm not an administrator) concerning the rather large backlog in edit requests. I'll have a look through your requests with a view to closing all of these out. The edit request templates are transcluded to a request page so editors who visit it regularly will evenytually action them. I've only just taken to looking at them myself. Blackmane (talk) 00:54, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

I've had a read through the two sources you've mentioned. I would suggest making a statement at the end of the MfA Fellowship section that indicates the discontinuation of the program. Something along the lines of

The Fellowship program was discontinued in 2012 with the Board shifting focus towards experienced teachers rather. (insert WNYC source here) The discontinuation was announced alongside an expansion of the MƒA Master Teacher and MƒA Early Career Fellowships. (insert press release source here)

It may also help to move the section to bottom of the MfA programs section to emphasise this.

I'll make changes to the article along these lines. Please ping me or drop a message on my talk page if you wish to discuss my changes. Blackmane (talk) 01:19, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Blackmane:. Thank you for taking a look at the MƒA page, we appreciate you helping out with these edits. We do have a few concerns about the newest version. The page spends a considerable amount of time detailing the Fellowship program, which we mentioned earlier has been discontinued. We are understand the inclusion of the MƒA Fellowship, which is the five year program that you highlight, but seeing as how the MƒA Master Teacher Fellowship is our main program offering, we feel that it should be featured more prominently on the page. Please see sources in our previous edits for information on the MƒA Master Teacher Fellowship. Please let us know if there is anything else we can provide to ensure this edit is made. Thank you. J Wiki 9 (talk) 19:13, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

I did the best I could to describe what MfA has done and does based on independent sources. Please provide links to the independent sources that describe what MfA is doing now and any changes to what MfA has been doing. I am uninterested in using your website or press releases so please do not provide them. Please also be aware that this is an encyclopedia article, not MfA's website. Per WP:NPOV we look at the whole story; our focus is on the overall story of the organization, not just what it is doing now. The latter is what your webpage is for. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 19:21, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

@J Wiki 9: As Jytdog has said above, Wikipedia must adhere to out neutral POV perspective. He is a very experienced editor in matters of COI, hence why I approached him to have a look over the article. I suggest you spend some time studying WP:NOTPROMO with a eye to seeing why the article has been pared back so much. Blackmane (talk) 21:02, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

:) It is really plain old WP:NPOV and WP:NOTWEBHOST; folks often think of a Wikipedia article about their organization as an extension of their website - some kind of social media - and that is not what Wikipedia is. WP:NOT generally (of which WP:NOTPROMO is a part), yes! Jytdog (talk) 21:24, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

MƒA Mission Statement

Potential COI disclosure: I work at Math for America. The following suggestions are made with the goal of improving the accuracy of this page.

The mission currently stated on MƒA's Wikipedia page, “…a mission to improve mathematics education in the United States by recruiting, training, and retaining…” is no longer correct, as we do not recruit or train teachers.

I suggest updating the language to more accurately reflect our current mission of making teaching a fulfilling and respected career choice. Reference can be found here.

While not a standalone source, additional information and mention of the MƒA mission can be found here.

J Wiki 9 (talk) 15:08, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Note that I've also removed some of the promotional tone in the lede while updating it to reflect this request. Blackmane (talk) 02:01, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

References

MƒA Master Teacher Fellowship

Potential COI disclosure: I work at Math for America. The following suggestions are made with the goal of improving the accuracy of this page.

This section states MƒA provides fellowships to only secondary school mathematics teachers. Currently, the organization provides fellowships to both math and science teachers. With that change the following sentence is no longer accurate: “The MƒA Master Teacher Program is a four-year program designed to retain exceptional public secondary school mathematics teachers currently teaching in New York City,” and should be changed to reflect the organization’s current offerings.

The rest of this section also makes references exclusively to mathematics teachers. This section should be updated to reflect the inclusion on science teachers.

J Wiki 9 (talk) 19:29, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm considering declining the request as I'm uncertain how Upworthy is viewed per the WP:RS policy. However, before I do so I've posted a request to WP:RSN to see whether Upworthy is acceptable. If it is, then I will go ahead with the edit. Blackmane (talk) 08:37, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm declining this request on the basis that Upworthy is not a reliable source. If you are able to find a more reliable source, please feel free to raise a new request. Blackmane (talk) 22:01, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

References

Program Principles

Potential COI disclosure: I work at Math for America. The following suggestions are made with the goal of improving the accuracy of this page.

This section outlines “three key principles” of the MƒA program which are no longer current to MƒA’s mission. Instead, MƒA is guided by these four core beliefs:

1. Teaching is a true profession 2. Great Teachers are always learning 3. Excellence comes out of deep collaboration and ongoing growth 4. Honoring greatness elevates the profession

References to these four core beliefs can be found here.

Also, this section includes a reference to the MƒA Fellowship, which MƒA no longer offers. References to MƒA’s current fellowships can be found here.

J Wiki 9 (talk) 19:31, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

I am of the thought that having a program principles section violates WP:PROMO and would be of the opinion of removing the section altogether. Blackmane (talk) 08:39, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

References

Fellowships for K-12 Teachers

Potential COI disclosure: I work at Math for America. The following suggestions are made with the goal of improving the accuracy of this page.

The introduction to the Math for America page indicates the organization only provides fellowships to secondary school mathematics teachers. MƒA currently provides fellowships to K-12 mathematics and science teachers. This section should be updated to reflect MƒA’s current offerings. Reference to this change can be found here.

J Wiki 9 (talk) 19:05, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

As I've generalised the lede in a previous edit, this seems redundant. Blackmane (talk) 22:05, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Blackmane:. Thanks again for all your work on the page. We understand that the page needs to have a neutral tone, and we appreciate your work to reflect that. However, there are a few items that are still factually incorrect about Math for America on the Math for America Wikipedia page, and along with your help, we would like to remove and update those inaccuracies with cited, factual information. The lead sentence currently states that Math for America works only with secondary school teachers, which is not correct. Math for America works K-12 math and science teachers that work in Kindergarten in New York City. For reference, please see this article from The Journal. J Wiki 9 (talk) 20:28, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

References

User:J Wiki 9 would you please briefly clarify how the strategies and mission of MfA has changed over time and the years that things changed? At this point I am not looking for you to provide sources for that but it would be helpful if you would briefly narrate. The last time I went really digging for sources I had a hard time getting the story down. Please note that the first sentence is historical - it describes the mission at founding. If you could additionally provide sources for the various times when it changed that would be great as well, but primarily I am looking for the milestones. thx Jytdog (talk) 21:43, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Jytdog:, here is a brief timeline: Math for America was founded in 2004 by James Simons with the mission to retain highly skilled mathematics teachers in secondary schools. MƒA began with the MƒA Fellowship, a five-year fellowship that trained new teachers by providing tuition for a Master’s degree and assistance with teaching placement. After 2014, MƒA stopped accepting new applications for the MƒA Fellowship. In 2005, MƒA created the MƒA Master Teacher Fellowship in order to focus more on great teachers already in the classroom. In 2010, MƒA introduced the MƒA Early Career Fellowship for teachers within their first three years of teaching. In 2013, MƒA began also admitting science teachers. In 2015, MƒA began admitting elementary school teachers. If you have any additional questions or need more information, please let us know. J Wiki 9 (talk) 16:07, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply.

• your description of the mission at founding doesn't match what reliable sources say. They make it clear that the original goal was recruiting good people and retaining them. (for example this one. We have a source that says that the recruiting focus was diminished in 2012 (source). I have found no source that says that the original Fellowship program stopped accepting new people in 2014. Do you have an independent source for that?

Other points...

• i have found no sources that say that the Master Teacher Fellowship program was started in 2005. Do you have an independent source for that?
• I have found no source for the 2010 start of the MƒA Early Career Fellowship for teachers within their first three years of teaching. Do you have an independent source for that?
• I have found no sources that discuss expansion to elementary schools in 2015. Do you have an independent source for that?

Thanks Jytdog (talk) 17:35, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi @Jytdog:, Thank you for all of your work on this. We've reviewed your notes and have some answers. We've gone through our media coverage and a lot of the articles written about us do no specify dates but we have tried our best to provide reliable sources that include as much detail as possible;

• There is no outside source that includes a specific date of when we stopped accepting candidates for the Fellowship program. The current language regarding the shift in focus to experienced teachers works for us.
• We don't have a source with specific dates for the start of the Master Teacher or Early Career Fellowship but we do have a source that cites the fellowships by name and provides a bit of detail about each. The article states ". It started with a focus on recruiting new teachers, but has added two related programs: a Master Teacher Fellowship for top-notch, veteran secondary math teachers and the Early Career Fellowship, which offers support and growth opportunities to newer teachers." It would be great if more detail can be provided about the Master Teacher and Early Career Fellowships.
• We have a source that refers to us an organization that works with K-12 teachers, which includes elementary school teachers.

References

-- J Wiki 9 (talk) 20:34, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Dealt with the 2nd bullet. Am unwilling to do anything with the third, as the source is a lightly processed press release and there is no discussion of the expansion to K-12, just a passing blurb-y mention. Jytdog (talk) 20:45, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Overly promotional

While responding to the edit requests, I've come to find that the tone in this article is, on average, very promotional. I'll see if I can spend some more time removing some of the more puffery language. @Jytdog:, I know you've done a lot of good work in articles where a major contributor has a COI. I'd be very interested to have your take on this. Blackmane (talk) 08:45, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I cannot comment on the contributor but I am happy to work on the content here. I agree that it is promotional and needs cleaning up Jytdog (talk) 17:20, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

 Done Jytdog (talk) 23:56, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Introductory Sentence

Potential COI disclosure: I work at Math for America. The following suggestions are made with the goal of improving the accuracy of this page.

Our introductory sentence is historically accurate about our mission at founding. We are hoping to update the sentence to reflect our current mission of retaining STEM teachers in the teaching profession rather than recruiting new teachers. Similar to how Teach for America and NYC Teaching Fellows' wikis includes a history section that reflects their growth over time, we are hoping to see something similar on our page.

Here are some sources that speak to our current mission of retention and forming a community of STEM teachers. J Wiki 9 (talk) 20:50, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

References