Talk:Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary

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[Untitled][edit]

The explanation I have always been toldisthat it was a queen who frequently had miscarriages and still-births. Hence 'how does your garden grow' referring to her womb, and 'pretty maids all in a row' because she buried each child in her garden. I cannot however, remember which Mary this was or what the 'silver bells and cockleshells' referred to.

Mary I of England, that would be, who remained childless through several miscarriages. Mary I of Scotland had at least one child, James, later James I of England and James VI(?) of Scotland. Eriathwen 12:35, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Personal Analysis[edit]

whose "personal analysis" is that on the main article? why does it deserve to be there? Alveolate 20:02, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed it as being rather unencyclopedic. In case any of it can be incorporated, a copy is below. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:21, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Doing a little research on slang from this period, I prefer the following analysis:

"Mary, Mary, quite contrary" inferes that Mary did not follow the social mores of the time.

"How does your garden grow" - a garden party was a common social event of the time.

"With silver bells" - a belle is a popular, attractive female.

"And cockle shells" - cockle bread was known as an aphrodisiac.

And pretty maids all in a row - Maid is also an archaic word for an unmarried woman or a virgin.

Missing Lines[edit]

Why does this article refer to a line in the song about killing rows and rows? I do not see this in the lyrics. 63.164.202.130 14:22, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

my own assumption[edit]

I've always assumed its a riddle, and that "Mary" is the sea (la Mer), and her garden is the sea bed (cockleshells). Although that doesn't explain the silverbells and marigolds. --Krsont 22:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Urban Legend[edit]

When I was around 10, I'd hear that this nursury rhyme was based on a likely untrue urban legend about Bloody Mary. That she was so vain about her looks if she spotted a young woman in her court more beautiful than her she'd have her beheaded, and she would put her head on display in her garden. Hence the "pretty maids in a row". Anyone else ever hear that urban legend? Inkan1969 19:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Quoted-Section[edit]

I cannot see where Mary Mary in Fforde's "The Big Over Easy" acts as described. In contrary, she tells the other officer the plant has not to be watered because it's plastic and he walks away saying "I'm a policeman, not a sodding gardener". (Hodder Paperback (Edition 2006), Chapter I, Page 2) Perhaps someone with another edition could cross-check it? 84.187.64.21 (talk) 09:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC) Caupano, 08-03-03[reply]

Teletubbies[edit]

According to the article, Dipsy sings the rhyme. I have no idea what this statement is based on. Unless there are different versions I'm unaware of it's apparent the 'talking flowers' sing the song and make the following remarks. The Seventh Taylor (talk) 12:37, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I notice this has been addressed now. The Seventh Taylor (talk) 23:27, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why the [sic]?[edit]

The article contains the line

Cowslips all in a row [sic].[1]

What does the [sic] refer to? I don't see any unlikely words. 86.163.209.18 (talk) 21:43, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind: I found it. The quote was "Cowslips all in arow." with the [sic] assuring us that it really did say "arow". Someone, at some point in the last 2 years, "corrected" this to "a row", but left the [sic] in place (perhaps not knowing what it meant). I have changed the words back to the actual quote. 86.163.209.18 (talk) 21:48, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This diff was were it happened: [1]

Ha. I just found it as well. Good job.--SabreBD (talk) 21:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Disney's The Truth About Mother Goose[edit]

Since the stub of Disney's The Truth About Mother Goose links to this article what it says about the rhyme should be included with its claim that the Mary is Mary Queen of Scotts, the "silver bells" are said to "refer to the elaborate decoration on her dresses", the "cockle shells" to her love of exotic food such as cockles, and the "pretty maids all in a row" referring to her ladies-in-waiting..--BruceGrubb (talk) 17:10, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. It needs a reliable source.--SabreBD (talk) 18:08, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The video itself is the reliable source.--BruceGrubb (talk) 21:27, 4 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Again the video itself is the reliable source. So stop reverting this claiming there is no source.--BruceGrubb (talk) 22:58, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The video is not a reliable source and this explanation is already in the text. There is also the issue of notability. Something like a book that refers to this might provide evidence of notability, but this is not the origin of this idea and therefore pretty irrelevant to an encyclopedic entry, in less you are demonstrating something about dissemination of the idea, in which case - that needs a reliable source.--SabreBD (talk) 07:23, 24 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Uh there is a light years of different between "silver bells" referring to (Catholic) cathedral bells and "silver bells" "refer[ing] to the elaborate decoration on her dresses" unless you have really weird definition of bell bottoms. The "cockle shells" meaning unfaithful husband vs love of exotic food is also drastically different. We have to remember that Disney's educational cartoons didn't cite where they got their information but it was Disney and if they said it was true people believed it at that time.--BruceGrubb (talk) 20:46, 25 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

My point is that this is just trivia, unless you can demonstrate its significance through a reliable source.--SabreBD (talk) 12:15, 26 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]