Talk:Marae

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Untitled[edit]

Hmmm a bit new zealand maori centred article. You can find marae eslewhere in Polynesia (french polynesia, Cook Islands), with different architetures

Marae (Copied from Kahuroa's talk page)[edit]

Nice picture of the Ra'iatean Taputapuatea. I noticed you deleted from the text the reference to the rarotongan taputapuatea, which is also a marae located at avarua behind Makea Palace. Anyway the two marae are linked. According to local korero, the rarotongan one was built by Tangi'ia in XIIIth century (confirmed by archeology). The central stone (a'u/ahu) of the Rarotonga taputapuatea was taken by Tangi'ia from the Ra'iatean marae, when he stopped there on his way from Tahiti to Rarotonga. Nevers

Oh thanks for the clarification.Kahuroa 19:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's me again :) A'u (mck)/ahu (ty) is the big central stone. Border stones or wooden posts are called au. The word would be according to Savage dictionary a contraction of purau or Lemon Hibiscus whose wood was used to enclose the marae. Nevers
OK - thanks. Re ahu - same word in NZ Māori/Easter Island/Marquesan ahu and many others, Tongan afu(a) - it comes from proto-Polynesian *ʻafu with the reconstructed meaning 'heap up; a heap or raised place'. Probably better not to include the Rarotongan word au for the border stones or posts at this stage since the section is about marae all over Polynesia. Kahuroa 23:43, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Picture Gallery[edit]

I restored the picture gallery. I have also pic of several Huahine marae and others of Rarotonga but it's on a dv camera tape so i have to transfer it on my computer and it takes time. I'll do it this week end Nevers

Stub[edit]

I think this article is long enough to remmove the 'stub' template, if there are no objections I'll go ahead? Lossenelin 06:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, marae article is not over. Are we in a hury ? It is still a stub Nevers

Marae/Whare[edit]

I'm no expert in te reo, but I'm pretty sure 'marae' and 'whare' don't mean the same thing (and the article suggests this too). So why does 'whare' get re-directed here? Surely whare should get their own page. --Helenalex 07:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You were right, I have belatedly redirected Whare to Wharenui. Kahuroa (talk) 21:53, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Split?[edit]

Finally, I think that this article should be split. If I well understood, today in New Zealand the whare nui (meeting house) is a part of modern marae. This is not the case for instance in Cook Islands. Each tapere (sub tribe), has also a meeting house for its community but nowadays it is totally distinct from the marae, even if in the old time marae could also be considered as a meeting place. In French Polynesia the concept of meeting house does not exist, or perhaps the church or the "bar" or "bistrot" (french version of the british pub) it depends on persons. Elsewhere in Polynesia I do not know. So one should split the article in

  • Marae : general considerations on marae in Polynesia
  • Marae in New Zealand or whatever title
  • And articles on Marae in various polynesian archipelagoes if anyone want to write them.

Nevers

size?[edit]

Just as an uninformed reader, I would find it helpful if sizes could be discussed. How big/small do Marae get? Are they generally smallish places -- say 100 m on a side? (Just guessing from the first picture.) Do they get larger? Or smaller? (The one at the University seems to be really just a patch of grass.) A little discussion of this in the intro would be very helpful for someone like me who doesn't know if they're whole areas or more like a church or Zen garden. Thanks. Otherwise, great article. 69.17.73.214 (talk) 03:19, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They vary - people do whatever suits the local situation, it's not there's a blueprint followed all over Polynesia - you are also talking about a huge area of the Pacific so of course they are all different sizes, and the functions are different in different countries. And the Uni photo doesn't show the whole of the marae ātea, just the portion in front of the meeting house. It's not unusually small in real life. Kahuroa (talk) 21:32, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes 100m x 100m would be the approximate size of most marae grounds in NZ. There is no set size but the grounds must be capable of holding say 200-300 people who might turn up for a tangi(funeral). On school grounds the area might be smaller but they are not usually "fenced off"from the rest of the school. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 02:07, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

If more references can be included, this article may move to C-Class. Adabow (talk) 20:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fact tag on Hawaiian word malae[edit]

I haven't got access to a decent Hawaiian dictionary. Because Pollex doesn't give a Hawaiian entry for "malae", I am wondering if the word occurs there or if it has been entirely supplanted by heiau. Online searches found malae = Malay, Malayan, Malaya (which is a different word), and the placename Malae (Māla‘e) which would not be a reflex of PPN *malaqe since the ' represents an original k. Kahuroa (talk) 21:45, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tapu-Tapu-A-Tea = Sacred - Sacred - Place of - Light[edit]

This following sentence is entirely false and offensive - please remove it.

"In all these languages, the word also means "cleared, free of weeds, trees, etc." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.113.6.233 (talk) 00:03, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In what way is it offensive? See [1] for a list of languages with a closely-related word.-gadfium 21:50, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Marae at Auckland War Memorial Museum[edit]

I uploaded (right) an image of the interior of a marae building at the Auckland Memorial War Museum. I'm not sure how authentic it is, but consider using if useful. There are some other images of the same structure at commons:Category:Hotunui meeting house. Dcoetzee 20:29, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It depends what you mean by authentic. It is certainly not a pre contact building! It must be remembered that Maori culture has borrowed heavily from European culture. If it was made and decorated by Maori I suppose it is fair to say it is modern authentic. The carving are done by power tools and steel chisels(German are favoured) today. The painting is done with modern high gloss paint but the patterns are modern variations of traditional styles. Most of the Maori building in the Auckland Museum are circa 1860s. Europeans had been influencing Maori culture for around 175 years by then. They came into the possession of the crown mainly during the Maori Wars(Land Wars) of the 1860s and mainly from the Waikato region where some of the hapu were in rebellion against the NZ government. Most of the normal houses or whares were pulled or burnt down to deny shelter but recognizing the merit of the carved buildings some were shipped to Auckland. However ,like grandpa's shovel, over time bits have been replaced as they decayed so it is hard to tell how much is 1860 original. New marae buildings are still being built. They incorporate all the feature a of any modern building in NZ but they try to make them look a bit like the traditional design but with features like heating,good insulation and air conditioning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 02:24, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What a rant. Nice photo. The photo is of the interior of a meeting house or wharenui, rather than a marae, by the way. It was carved in the 19th century by expert carvers of Ngati Awa from Whakatane, as a gift for the marriage of a chief of Hauraki to a woman from Whakatane. Power tools were definitely not available to its builders as they hadn't been invented yet. Piwaiwaka (talk) 09:18, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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