Talk:Malmö/Archive 1

Archive 1

A note on the Sound file

According to the village pump at Wikimedia commons, file names with special characters may lead to problem. But Wikipedia English will update their software in mid-June, when this problem hopefully will be solved. Until then, sound files such as Malmö, Göteborg and Östersund will not always work (it apparently only works for some people). --Fred-Chess 09:54, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Lead IPA

There's a been a very insistent fiddling with phonetic transcription in the lead, and quite incorrect to boot. However, to avoid further bickering, I have now changed the IPA to illustrate phonemic transcription which is equally applicable to virtually all dialects. Only long vowels are diphthongized in Swedish and the /ø:/ is under no circumstance pronounced with an [e] (the same vowel as in the words lek or fel), but rather with a glide that is best described as [^œø:]. Tentatively it could be said that in rapid colloquial speech it would be pronounced as an [ɛ] (the unrounded equivalent of [œ], but this is quite speculative and most likely very specific to certain contexts and dialects, i.e. not helpful to any non-Swedes. If anyone wishes to change it again, please show that you have a basic knowledge of IPA or of Swedish phonology (no matter the dialect).

Peter ^Isotalo 12:43, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Having taught Swedish for most of the last 30 years, and most of that as an employee of Malmö municipality, I guess I have that basic knowledge. (I have, of course, no idea what IPA ɛ should stand for, but it's well known that the short /e/ and short schwa may appear hard to distinguish when there is no need for distinction, as would be the case here.)

The final sound of Malmö is no [ø]-sound. That would be hyper-correct. No-one says so, except in declamatory style. The used sound is not rounded, which can easily be seen if observing speakers. Whether it's closer to open-mid or close-mid cardinal sounds may be disputed.

The previous vowel is long and diphthong.

E. Olofsson/Family Olofsson 15:10, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

IPA transcriptions are certainly not decided merely by the local dialect of a particular town or city. The only dialect that is perceived as neutral in Swedish is Central Standard Swedish and this is what most Swedes would expect if, for example, being provided with a pronunciation file. Non-Swedes are certainly no exception and are not in the least helped by impressionistic analyses by people who don't know IPA. And since I am a native Swede myself and pronounce the word the way I hear it mostly, it feels very odd to hear someone calling it "hyper-correct".

Christian Elert describes the dipthongs of Scanian and the southern dialects in Allmän och svensk fonetik, and he does mention [e] or [ə]-sounding pronunciations when it comes to the long phonemes /u/ and /ʉ/, but /ø/ is described as mentioned in my previous post. It really makes very little sense that they be centralized, since the direction of Southern Swedish diphthongs is outwards, not inwards. It's actually the diphthongs of Central Swedish that are directed inwards and very prone to [ə]-glides. Other than that the schwa seems to be common only as unstressed /e/.

I'm reinserting the phonetic transcription and if you object, I would like to see more than just personal opinion.

Peter ^Isotalo 19:19, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Education

This paragraph:

Malmö has a variety of both public and private schools. One of the most notable private schools is Bladins, with an impeccable reputation and huge waiting lists. Malmö Borgarskola is the largest high school in the city, also holding the renowned IB school, one of the best in the World, rivaling that of London, Paris and New York. The most popular school however is S:t Petri skola [2], with extraordinary students as well as teachers. The school is the only school of languages in the whole city and we invite you to visit us in our old but also modern equipped building on the 22.11.05 at 18.00-21.00 o'clock.

Is advertisement allowed in Wikipedia? "Extraordinary students"?!!

No, it shouldn't be. I removed it. // Fred-Chess 09:10, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Rewrite

Do the lay out like countries have it or something similar, this is just a suggestion and you can mix up the numbers if you so wish

• 1 History
• 2 Geography
• 3 Demographics
• 4 Politics
• 5 Economy
• 6 Culture
• 7 Sports
• 8 International rankings
• 10 Notes
• 11 References
• 12 See also
• 13 External links

(Deng 20:31, 4 May 2006 (UTC))

---

I'll try this instead (from Adelaide)

   * 1 History
   * 2 Geography
         o 2.1 Climate
         o 2.2 Urban Layout
   * 3 Governance
   * 4 Demographics
   * 5 Economy
   * 6 Education
   * 7 Culture
         o 7.1 Media
         o 7.2 Sport
   * 8 Infrastructure
         o 8.1 Health
         o 8.2 Transport
         o 8.3 Utilities
   * 9 Notes and references
   * 10 Sister cities
   * 11 See also
   * 12 Further reading
   * 13 External links

Fred-Chess 04:57, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

That type of article layout is the Australian standard and the finest out of the layouts I've seen so far (that said, I might be a tad biased!). Canberra, Johannesburg and Mumbai are good examples of what to work up to. michael ^talk 05:02, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestions. I've done an initial rewrite, where I also removed such sections as "notable natives", and the gallery. All the removed material is at Malmö/Scrapbook. / Fred-Chess 09:45, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm actually impressed by the Australian city articles, which are impressively easy to read through; the sections are well adjusted for length, etc. However, I find it slightly awkward that the history section extends into recent years. / Fred-Chess 09:48, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Fred why do you remove so much? Alot of the history, education and economy has been removed and many other things as well, dont remove things without replacing them somewhere otherwise the information can be lost forever (Deng 10:34, 5 May 2006 (UTC))

If there is any particular information you want reinserted, let's discuss it... / Fred-Chess 11:11, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I think you should be the one to discuss when you want to remove things the way you did. I see no justification for what you did, so I reverted your edits. --Candide, or Optimism 13:41, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Everything you have deleted should be restored. Adding information is always good but removing info is always bad. (Deng 13:36, 5 May 2006 (UTC))

Why do you think:

"Malmö has a variety of both government-owned schools and privately owned schools, both financed by the government and both types are free for the students like all schools in Sweden. One of the most notable private schools is Bladins, with an impeccable reputation and huge waiting lists. Malmö Borgarskola is the largest high school in the city, also holding the renowned IB school, one of the best in the World, rivalling that of London, Paris and New York. Other schools with old traditions are Malmö S:t Petri skola [1] and Malmö Latinskola.".

Adheres to WP:NPOV and Wikipedia:Verifiability?

regarding the history section, it will be inserted into History of Malmö. Why do you think this:

Around 1290, construction on the St Petri Church began. It was the first Gothic church to be built within Sweden's present-day borders. Similar Brick Gothic churches can be found around the coastal regions of both Sweden and Germany (for example in Ystad, Landskrona and Rostock), and were inspired by the German sea merchants, the Hanseatic League, who played a major part in the economical growths around the Sound. Red bricks were used instead of stone, due to its scarcity in the area, and the colour comes from the bedrock and the means the bricks were fabricated. In the ensuing century, Malmö and Copenhagen would rise in economic importance, and until this day this pattern has persisted. Despite Lund (and to a lesser degree Roskilde) being culturally of much greater importance, Malmö and Copenhagen have been centres for industrious and economic success.

is so important in an article about Malmö?

Why do you think:

Biking is a popular means of transport, since Malmö is a city virtually without altitude differences and since the snow season is usually brief. A continuous network of bike roads, in intersections often with right of precedence over for cars, has in recent decades been a priority beside the rather extensive public transport system.

A Swedish deregulation of taxicabs in the 1990s turned out particularly advantageous for Malmö. The supply of cabs is good, and most operate to low fixed fares, usually arriving within three–four minutes if requested by phone, which is the most convenient. For tourists, however, it's advisable to compare prices.

adheres to Wikipedia:Verifiability?

What parts of

Biking is a popular means of transport, since Malmö is a city virtually without altitude differences and since the snow season is usually brief. A continuous network of bike roads, in intersections often with right of precedence over for cars, has in recent decades been a priority beside the rather extensive public transport system. The tramlines (street-cars) were however abolished in 1973.

Adheres to Wikipedia:Verifiability?

/ Fred-Chess 14:32, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

It is all good info and above all it is correct I see no reason why it should be removed. (Deng 14:48, 5 May 2006 (UTC))

If you don't want to adhere to explicit policies there isn't much more I can say to you. / Fred-Chess 17:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Where does this policy say that we shouldn't mention the means of transport, the history behind the first Gothic church, and have a gallery of photos? Even CIA World-book mentions Sweden's public transport. --Candide, or Optimism 17:55, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Just show me a reliable reference verifying the information and I'm happy.

The paragraph about the church is however not even about Malmö.

Fred-Chess 19:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I would guess than 90-percent of the article is unsourced. That doesn't mean that I can come and remove everything that is unsourced. The article would then become a stub. What do you mean that St. Petri is not about Malmö? It sure is. When it mentions its status in Sweden and the historical background behind the architecture, it underscores its significance. If you think something is controversial, let us know and we can discuss it. I agree that the article is in poor shape and badly written, but removing text will not improve it. --Candide, or Optimism 19:43, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

http://www.malmo.com/ -- Staden -- Historik -- lots of good and real info (Deng 19:37, 5 May 2006 (UTC))

The link you give is virtually worthless -- it lacks references itself, and is sketchy written (even worse than this article).

A direct reference to the material, please:

"Malmö is a city virtually without altitude differences" -- My comment: Compared to what?

"the snow season is usually brief" -- what is "brief"?

"A continuous network of bike roads, in intersections often with right of precedence over for cars, has in recent decades been a priority beside the rather extensive public transport system." -- reference please

Malmö has a variety of both government-owned schools and privately owned schools" -- all cities have this, what is the point?

One of the most notable private schools is Bladins, with an impeccable reputation and huge waiting lists. Malmö Borgarskola is the largest high school in the city, also holding the renowned IB school, one of the best in the World, rivalling that of London, Paris and New York. Other schools with old traditions are Malmö S:t Petri skola [1] and Malmö Latinskola."." -- reference please

The supply of cabs is good, and most operate to low fixed fares, usually arriving within three–four minutes if requested by phone, which is the most convenient." -- reference please

Similar Brick Gothic churches can be found around the coastal regions of both Sweden and Germany (for example in Ystad, Landskrona and Rostock), and were inspired by the German sea merchants, the Hanseatic League, who played a major part in the economical growths around the Sound. Red bricks were used instead of stone, due to its scarcity in the area, and the color comes from the bedrock and the means the bricks were fabricated." -- In my point of view, this is not about Malmö.

Anittas: Hmm, I would guess than 90-percent of the article is unsourced. That doesn't mean that I can come and remove everything that is unsourced. -- See Wikipedia:Verifiability: "Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed."

Fred-Chess 20:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

You have removed much much more then that. (Deng 09:27, 6 May 2006 (UTC))

My idea

Is it okay if I remove everything in the article that is not sourced? This question is for Fred to answer. Thx. --Candide, or Optimism 21:57, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

What is the problem? What don't you like? Let's talk about it -- I can find sources.

Fred-Chess 22:04, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Fred you have deleted so much because it hasn't been sourced, so what is the problem if Anittas deletes everything left that hasn't been sourced. Also you have deleted things that have been sourced that you didn't like. (Deng 09:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC))

Are you making serious claims, or just some random spiteful remarks? I am asking for sources for the material above, and you have not provided it. I am asking about the relevance of specific sections above, but you have not commented on it. If you want to question the material I have written, I suggest you do as I did above, and you'll see that it -- unlike you -- will provide answers. / Fred-Chess 10:34, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Just for the record, we can use Fox News as a source. Whether you think it's accurate or not is your own POV. --Candide, or Optimism 13:11, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

You have deleted and twisted information to such an extent that 50% of the article has changed or been deleted and you want us to explain why removing half an article is bad. If you cant understand that on your own that there is now way anyone can explain it to you. What I am doing is adding information that you have added but unlike you I do not delete things. Sourced or not they are correct and who ever added them most likely did so because they had read it in a news paper that day or seen it on tv. (Deng 17:53, 7 May 2006 (UTC))

Deleting sentences as this:

The disunity between the burghers of Lund and Malmö has remained a fundamental characteristic, the former relying on tradition the latter on modernity and adaptation. Malmö was, for instance, a leading hanseatic town during the decades of the Hansa's dominance in the region, and leading the process of Protestant Reformation in Denmark of the 1530s. After the secession to Sweden, in 1658, Malmö suffered an economic decline due to poor harbour facilities and loss of trading privileges that were granted under the Danish Crown. By 1730, its population had dwindled to 282. In 1775, a new harbour was constructed, but Malmö's economic status remained poor until the later part of 19th century and the introduction of the railroad.

He removed that info? What the fuck! I added that info and I used Encyclopaedia Britannica Online as a source! Fred, I think you should back off. You may be a Swede, but you have no right to act the way you did. --Candide, or Optimism 18:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I more or less rewrote it. Please see [1], scroll down to history section. / Fred-Chess 19:28, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

And this ;

The first fortification was erected at the site of Skeppsbron (“Ship bridge”) and Malmö Central Station, first hinted at in unfriendly diplomatic correspondence between the king and the archbishop in March 1256, but in 1434 Malmö's growth gave reason to the erection of a new citadel at the beach south of the town. The new fortress, Malmöhus, was completed in the mid-16th century and continued to play an essential role after the secession to Sweden — now as a part of the defence system against the Danes. During 1828–1914 the building was re-used as a prison, and since the 1930s it houses Malmö museum.

Which I shortened into In 1434 Malmö's growth gave reason to the construction of a new citadel at the beach south of the town. This fortress, known today as Malmöhus, did not get its current appearance until the mid-16th century. Several other fortifications were constructed, making Malmö Sweden's most fortified city, but only Malmöhus remains.". I see no problem there. The article is about Malmö, not Malmöhus. / Fred-Chess 19:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Serves no purpose except if you want people to know less which is not the point of wiki. The whole point of wiki is to know more NOT know less. (Deng 17:57, 7 May 2006 (UTC))

Now what I have done is keep everything from the old version and add everything that you have added so this version contains both of everything in the old article plus everything that you have added. There is no need to delete everything left and right! (Deng 18:13, 7 May 2006 (UTC))

Once again you fail to understand that excessive information about marginal topics should be inserted into articles of their own, articles such as History of Malmö, or Malmöhus. / Fred-Chess 19:28, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

No, it is you who doesn't understand that deleting things left and right is wrong, you delete it WITHOUT replacing it ANYWHERE. You don't replace it in topic "of their own" you just delete it (Deng 12:09, 8 May 2006 (UTC))

You removed much of my material, including three images (two in the section "history") and the section about media. You also told me earlier to outline the sections according to a scheme you provided, which I did. Yet, you insist that sections "Notable people" and "gallery" remains, despite not contributing significantly to the article. So why do you now insist to keep these sections? Please answer that question.

I didn't think you would care so much about the history of the Saint Petri Church (such a short paragraph could easily be expanded into an article of its own). If you want it kept, I will be glad to move it into appropriate sub-article. But please say so, so I don't insert it, and you revert the article any ways.

Fred-Chess 18:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

You have deleted so much and it is hard to compare the version but as far as I could see I added everything you added but if I missed something then just add the part don't go back and delete everything (Deng 19:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC))

You still haven't answered why you want the sections "Gallery" and "Notable natives" present in article, when you above said they shouldn't be included. Which is it? / Fred-Chess 19:40, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I have answered you deleted so much and twisted so much that it is impossible to see what you deleted and what you added, I tried to add everything you had added but I must have missed something. But the fact remain my version contains much more information then what you have done.

GA nomination -

opening para appears appealing? doesn't read well Gnangarra

Nah, I know there are several improvements needed before the article reaches the requirements. I had hoped they would be fixed, but they haven't been. / Fred-Chess 13:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

• History condense there is already a main article
• A night line by ferry to Berlin has been in traffic since 1909. suggest change traffic to service/operation
• Demographics heading needs to be on left either reposition images or use <br clear=all>
• Sydsvenskan -- newspaper: 1,025 employees (and many underpaid interns...) NPOV underpaid or should it be unpaid
• Two references one in history and one in architecture that should be moved to reference section.

sorry I failed this article there are too many concerns to be fixed quickly, If you would like me to review the article again just ask. Gnangarra 13:33, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you none the less for taking your time with it. / Fred-Chess 13:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Pictures of parks/recreational areas

I just think that the article should feature one or some of them in a small section with pics, since Malmö actually is famous for its wide range of parks, for example Bo01 and Pildammsparken. Comments, ideas? // Lambdalix 21:13, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Merge from Malmö Municipality

Well.. eh.. I think so. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 02:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose -- sorry, we have discussed this before. The municipality articles are useful for consistency with other municipal articles and to clarify that we are dealing with two different entities. / Fred-Chess 09:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose per Fred Chess. --Krm500 10:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I said nothing. :O Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 14:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Other uses removed

I removed the 'other uses' section and placed it here to determine if it was worthy of being included.

Other uses

The science-fiction themed coffee table book Spacewreck contains an account of a derelict spacecraft called the Malmo which is rediscovered after several centuries adrift.

My position is that it offer nothing about Malmö, Sweden. The book's name does not even have a page on Wikipedia. Svyatoslav 02:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Sandpile?

"Its original name was Malmhaug (with alternate spellings), meaning "Sandpile"." Is "sandpile" really correct here? Literally, "Malmö" mean 'Ore island'. For me, "Malmhaug" would roughly translate to "Ore pile", not "sandpile". --Ullner 22:13, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

According to Politikens Nydansk Ordbog (15th ed., 1992) the 13th century name was Malmøghæ, and the earlier Norse name was Malmhaugar. In this context, "Malm" means "sand" or "gravel", cf. Norr- and Södermalm in Stockholm. The second part of the name is ancient Danish; "høgh" (in my book, the "ø" has a macron on top). This word is the same as the modern Danish "høj", i.e. a "hill". The same book notes that names ending in "-høj" almost always refer to hills artificially created as tombs (a tumulus, in Danish: a "gravhøj"). "When used as a suffix, this ending has often been strongly weakened or transformed; cf. Egå, Langå, Malmö, Revs, Vedersø, Års." I guess the conclusion must be that somebody important was buried in an artificial sand hill. (The paragraphs I used for this section were "Malmö" and "-høj".) Valentinian ^{T / C} 22:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, interesting. Thanks for clearing that up. --Ullner 10:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Btw, geology is not my speciality, so just in case, "gravel" might have a slightly different meaning in English; the Danish words are "sand" and "grus". Valentinian ^{T / C} 10:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

"Culture trivia"

I'm removing that section. Some film contains a "brief report" of how the city is like? Stalin has "passed through" and the Beatles were there incognito? There's no need for this on Wikipedia. It might be interesting for fans, but it adds no value to this article. number29 10:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Population weirdness

"It has 280,144 inhabitants (2007) (about 605,000 in the metro area)." That's not really possible, though is it? 605 being greater than 280 and all. I'd edit it myself if I new the correct numbers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.27.165.140 (talk) 10:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't see anything impossible about that. In fact, I would venture to say that there are dozens, if not hundreds of cities/metropolitan areas around the world with approximately those same numbers. Mamarazzi (talk) 04:41, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

It's a completely rational number. Malmö municipality has a very small surface, and the urban body of the city has grown far outside the municipality borders. 605 000 seems a bit optimistic though, it must be including the city of Lund. I don't think anyone from Lund would say they live in a suburb to Malmö. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.157.214 (talk) 21:54, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Seriously

How many images will be uploaded to this article before it's enough? --Krm500 20:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at Zagreb ;-) Admiral Norton ^(talk) 20:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

"struggling with the adaptation to post-industrialism"

I don't understand what this phrase is doing in this article. All the cities of the world experience post-industrialism. Laughable that editors think Malmo is 'struggling'; the whole planet is living in post-industrialism. Anyway that should be 'industrialisation'. Coolaid4u 23:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Industrialisation and industrialism are two different things. Industrialisation is the process of increasing the industrial sector at the expense of agriculture – a purely economic term in other words. Industrialism is both a group of different ideologies (social, philosophic and economic) and an epoque in human history. I think the editors were referring to the latter. But your point stands somewhat, a lot of countries and thousands of cities in the western world are struggling with post-industrialism, Malmö is no exception.

Perhaps it should say that "since Malmö relied mostly on heavy industry before the 1990's, it has been particularly difficult for the city to adapt to post-industrialism". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.157.214 (talk) 17:25, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Malmö stad - Malmö vs. Malmö Municipality

Can someone please explain why this article and the Malmö Municipality article both uses the term "Malmö (S/s)tad"? It is quite confusing and does not add logic to why Malmö and Malmö Municipality have two different articles. ^Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\^Work 23:12, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I can't explain why the infobox uses the name "City of Malmö", no. I think it doesn't make sense.

Apart from that, I think it is quite clear.

Fred-J 19:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

There is some controversy in Sweden about the terminology. Stad is the Swedish word for town and city. Up until 1971 there were different types of municipalities one of them called stad, normally translated to city in English. Nowadays all municipalities are of uniform type and called kommun, regardless of size ore age or former privileges. Some larger municipalities do not like this and have decided to continue to style themselves as "Stockholms stad", "Malmö stad" &c. In English they use the word city. In the every-day language in Sweden today, however, the term stad is used for larger localities or urban areas (and not for the municipalities to which they belong). The article Malmö should be about the locality (which is the colloquial stad) and the Malmö Municipality should be about the municipality, which styles itself Malmö stad. It is of course a bit confusing. I think the municipality article should mention the term "Malmö stad/City of Malmö" and the loclity article not.--Muniswede (talk) 06:09, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Muslim population / social problems

The article currently mentions (briefly) the city's foreign-born population but does not mention its Muslim population or social tensions related to that population's integration (or lack thereof) into Swedish society. There must be unbiased information out there on this topic that can be added; it shouldn't be glossed over entirely. Funnyhat 00:53, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

You won't get that in. Trust me. Socialist have never admitted there mistakes in the past - why should they start now. 77.251.69.14 (talk) 19:45, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Why should anyone trust you?

A) you think that high levels of immigration is a socialist trait when clearly the countries with the highest levels of immigration are capitalist economies,

B) you presume that accepting immigrants is undoubtedly a mistake, without nuance or reasoning,

C) you think that the Swedish government is necessarily socialist despite the fact that it's a country with a market economy and a long tradition of personal freedom and arguably the most open democracy in the World, and

D) you fail to understand that there are powerful liberal forces in Sweden (the current Swedish government is liberal just like the government that ruled from 1990-1993 when a lot of immigrants entered Sweden).

So I ask again, why should anyone trust you? You're clearly deeply misinformed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.145.39 (talk) 00:31, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Stop kidnapping this article for your own personal extremist ideas!

Anyone in Sweden not living under a rock knows by now that Malmö is the number one target, the arch enemy, the epicentre of discontent among Swedish right wing extremists. For this reason, the article about Malmö gets "kidnapped" as part of their attempts to spread propaganda and misinformation. These extremists are uneducated which can seen by their horrible spelling and their plain wrong so called "facts". Even a cursory glance at this article reveals traces of these malicious attempts to use Wikipedia and Malmö to navigate their flagship of racism, poor education and zero critical thinking.

Consider this phrase under the Segregation headline "Malmö is one of the most segregated cities in Europe, with most migrants in the suburb of Rosengård...". First of all, Rosengård is not a suburb, it's a borough, one of 10 administrative divisions in the city of Malmö. People from Malmö know this, which indicates that whoever wrote this phrase has probably never set foot in Rosengård, maybe even in Malmö. This is sadly a common mistake that outsiders make, Swedes often assume that Malmö has these segregated suburbs similar to Stockholm, which is plain wrong. Our social problems are an inner city issue, our suburbs are generally wealthy areas with very few social problems.

Secondly, and more importantly, how the f*** is Rosengård, a borough of little over 20 000 residents supposed to host most of the immigrants in Malmö? This claim is completely and utterly impossible to defend and it was definitely written by someone who has absolutely no idea what he/she is talking about. The reason that these people target Rosengård is because it was one of the first genuine low income/high immigration level-areas in Sweden and was consequently the most frequently mentioned area in Swedish tabloids when "reporting" about the effects of immigration. Rosengård is a cultural icon of high immigration levels together with bad integration politics. These days, Rosengård is neither the biggest, worst nor most dangerous of these areas. It has become just another one of them, but since it was first, it has been targeted early on and it has stuck in the most narrow minds of the Swedish public and they're using Wikipedia as their forum of expression. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.157.214 (talk) 06:22, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

You don't know a thing. Idiot. Read Arthur Kemp's March of the Titans and come back to me and say that.--Over2u (talk) 13:03, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I don't know anything. I'm just a guy who happened to grow up in Rosengård, Malmö and took a Master of Laws degree from Lund University with a final thesis about this particular issue. Never mind the fact that my thesis about the dynamics of immigration in Northern Europe earned me a scholarship to conduct my further studies at Cambridge. No, let's just enlighten idiots like me with white supremacy writers like Arthur Kemp! Get real. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.145.39 (talk) 17:54, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually: You can't claim that your enemies are using it as a forum for expression because as far as i am aware the article is either used to hide the social problems in Malmo, or express them in a left-wing ideological way. 77.251.69.14 (talk) 19:50, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Any examples? Also, keep in mind that "left wing" depends on where you're from. What may be left wing in Texas is not left wing in Sweden. And by the way, I've seen your comments in several places here with your incessant nagging about socialism. Furthermore, the Swedish government that you call leftist in one of your comments above has been run by the moderate party in the last three years, the most right wing party in our house of representatives. Your crusade against socialism does not really belong in this millennium. We entered the age of global capitalism 20 years ago, it's over, let go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.145.39 (talk) 03:26, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

in a nutshell >I'm the king and queen lawyer of England and everyone else is stupid and has to be censored. even if you are right you are delaying your suggestions with this aggressive manner lastly presuming you really are a sophisticated scholar in this field it still doesn't means you aren't just as interested in skewing the representation of reality as any other extremist. let's be civil now this is Wikipedia 79.176.49.28 (talk) 18:02, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Is it really civil to narrate peoples own ideas in your own stylized nutshells? People are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves, without the "help" of your nutshell. By the way, the whole point is that it doesn't take much research to falsify some of the ridiculous statements that tend to show up (unsourced) in this article. How exactly would a person who points out obvious errors in this article be skewing reality? The person above points out the impossibility of an urban area of 20 or so thousand people hosting the greater part of 90 thousand immigrants. Please explain how that's any kind of extremism or political agenda. And while you're at it, explain how comments like "I'm the king and queen lawyer of England and everyone else is stupid and has to be censored" adds anything to any discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.145.39 (talk) 21:50, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Demographics

At present, the article talks about the largest immigration group and the top five include the former Yugoslavia and Bosnia-Herzegovina. As B-H was a part of Yugoslavia, that should probably be fixed. JdeJ 09:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Done. Ullner 10:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I was just wondering if the Bosnians might have been included in the original number for the former Yugoslavia as well?

It hadn't. I've updated the figures, and added Bosnia-Herzegovina. This because Yugoslavia refer to the amount of people immigrating when Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia etc weren't independent nations. I think the removal of 'Former' remove the confusion. Ullner 21:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Why separate former Yugoslavia and Bosnia and Herzegovina + Republic of Macedonia? Both were part of ex Yugoslavia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.92.201.184 (talk) 21:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Made up numbers

This little gem snuck into the "demographics" section: "Immigrant Muslims comprise a little over 25% of population and their share keeps on rising. It is predicted that Malmö would be more than 50% Muslim by 2020." Contrast that to the FACTS below that says 30% of the population was born abroad. Don't know if I should post this(this is my first wiki edit), so uh...keep an eye at demographics? It's pretty funny in a tragic way too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.91.89.186 (talk) 21:27, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Instead of deleting this (stupid) claim, you could have sourced it (search "Malmö" in Eurabia). Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:58, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

SIFO poll

"In a poll conducted in autumn 2010 by Sifo, Sweden's largest opinion poll company, Malmö was ranked as the city with the country's worst reputation"

The source for this sentence clearly states that the poll was not about the cities but about the municipalities, the sentence is incorrect and should be moved to Malmö Municipality.--Reckless182 (talk) 21:03, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Malmö crime

From article

City police have recently lost control over certain ghettos in Malmö. As rape has become a serious problem in and near these neighbourhoods, female travellers should make sure to locate these areas in Malmö and avoid them.

Ambulance drivers and parking inspectors who will not enter say their uniform draws the attention of gangs of Muslim youth, and police do not enter without backup. These areas were the grounds of an unfortunate 24-day series of rapes and attacks in August. City police are in the process of adapting to the new situation in Malmö. There are also on-line debates being held at the Swedish Muslim forum about an internal solution to the matter.

Aftonbladet and Expressen are not reliable sources.

Fred-Chess 16:00, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Ah, blaming everything on the foreigners, again, I see. --Anittas 17:47, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

As I understand it, many of the criminals (i.e., people committing crimes, such as rape and assault) are Swedish-born Muslims. They aren't foreigners then, are they? Also, isn't it terribly POV to baldly claim that Aftonbladet and Expressen aren't reliable? Why not? Says who? Please back up your claim. From looking at the Aftonbladet page on Wikipedia, I see it is called a tabloid albeit a serious one, and its readership is in the top five. It seems like a mainstream media source, perfectly acceptable for a source in Wikipedia.

Both papers reported much the same things about Malmo, yet you decided to remove it. Why? Are two sources too few? How about getting the same or similar information from other sources? Is Fox news "not reliable," too? Check this [2] out, which is Fox's coverage of much the same topic. This information is verifiable from multiple sources, and needs to go back into the article.

I don't mind having that text added there, even though it's a bit biased, it can be completed with additional info, such as why these things occur, etc. I don't know where you read that most rapists are second-generation Muslims. I would like to read that. I thought that most rapers were ethnic Swedish. --Candide, or Optimism 23:48, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Aftonbladet and Expressen are what we call kvällstidningar. These are notorious for making up stories when there are none, in order to sell copies. Kvällstidningar rely on sales of single copies of papers, as oppose to more serious newspapers (morgontidningar) that rely on subscription. A subscriber has already paid for the paper and doesn't need to be enticed to buy a new one, which is why tabloids such as Aftonbladet need to entice their readers every day which leads to fabricated "news".

The reason that Expressen and Aftonbladet often publish the same stories is simply because they are each others news sources, tabloids don't exactly turn to Reuters to get accurate news. This is why these two sources aren't enough, because they're too similar. If you could find the same story portrayed the same way in Sydsvenskan and Svenska dagbladet you'd have reliable sources. And Fox news are famous around the world for their extremely right-wing propaganda (that story is part of a series about "the Muslim threat to Europe"), constantly demonizing Muslims where ever they can find them. Perhaps you should look at other so called "news stories" by Fox news and make up your own mind, or you could read about their owner Rupert Murdoch and find out what his interest is.

The claim that most rapists are second generation Muslims is directly false. The only way second generation Muslims would commit most acts of rape is if they all would engage in raping one woman after the other for several hours a day. It's simply preposterous to claim that such a small group of people commit such a large amount crimes. People who are ethnically Swedish account for more than seven million people in our country of nine million, it makes much more sense that seven million people out of nine million commit most crimes (in any category) than a couple of hundreds of thousands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.132.175 (talk) 18:52, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

1. Blah... The second article in your reference seems to have been moved? I don't know if you have even read the sources, but the third article doesn't even mention Malmö. I also looked up the forum but frankly I couldn't find anything concrete that can be used as a reference. Last, please use references that are not sensation journalism. Yes, Aftonbladet and Expressen live on selling sensational information and have that as their unavoidable point of view. If stuff like this is supposed to be included in an article, it needs to have proper references, particularly comparison with other cities, and actual statistics. This brings us to the second point of the objection:
2. Besides the lack of reference, there is an obvious bias in the post. The proper name of Malmö's suburbs is suburb, not ghetto. The fact that crime occurred 24 days in August does not say more than that -- crime occur in every city, and Malmö's crime rate is a far cry from the Crime in Washington, D.C. or that in Moscow. Comparison with other Swedish cities is needed if it is supposed to make sense. The expression "police has lost control" is also an obvious POV phrase.

Fred-Chess 00:26, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Fox news is not reliable, they have their own agenda to push they are one of the worst and most biased POW pushing TV channels out there when it comes to the news programs. (Deng 05:48, 1 May 2006 (UTC))

But I thought that the Swedes also blamed these things on the foreigners. ;) --Candide, or Optimism 06:25, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

OK first to insert such info you need a source you haven't sourced it so it can be removed.

2 the text was made if you can find it that is with an agenda, which is to cause hatred of all non-swedes by using the sentence 16% are Muslims you are not stating fact but creating an opinion that Sweden is over run by Islamic fundamentalists. This was created by fox news as their propaganda against all Muslims and that they are all criminals and that they must all die. You are playing on prejudice and hatred by stating that

3 There is no need to place it at the very top of the article except if you purpose is to fuel hatred of all non-swedes

4 no source no dice

(Deng 11:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC))

I am no Swede but this article lacks reasonable (from any view) information about its demographics. Whether its the "Islamic fundamentalists" or the "fox news propaganda" it'd be great if some reasonable, npov content was generated with accuracy. michael ^talk 12:09, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay. Perhaps I could start writing on it, trying to get it into a "Good article" state. Local sources have an inherent bias, so I'd appreciate outside sources of any kind if anyone can find such. Just to make sure the article gets the necessary NPOV. / Fred-Chess 19:45, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Any kind of other comments and suggestions are also welcome. / Fred-Chess 19:56, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I have heard that the Swedish Government (which is strongly leftist) has been censoring information containing to Muslims in Malmo. 77.251.69.14 (talk) 19:55, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

North Korea is "strongly leftist", Sweden is a transparent and extremely highly developed democracy with a liberal government and a market economy, so cut the crap. Censorship is as rare in Sweden as desert storms. Plus, Malmö is the third largest city in Sweden and millions of people pass through it each year. It would be impossible to conceal the nature of everyday life in Malmö. You'll just have to accept that what you've heard is lies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.145.39 (talk) 17:29, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

It would be easy to source some of what is written here by referring to statistics (hey, Swedes are past masters at statistics!) or the local newspapers (Sydsvenskan, and up to its demise in 2000, Arbetet). They've both been frank about the situation when it comes to crime and social division in the city without falling into Fox News-style panic and racist allegations. The trouble is of course, those sources are in Swedish, and according to the principles exercised here, non-English sources have to be sourced and stated fact by fact which would lead to a blurred and tedious image.

Living within 10 miles distance from Malmö. and going there several times a month, I don't feel threatened when I'm walking its streets but I'm aware that the city has its quirks and that in some ways it's more "Brixton-like" than almost any other place in Sweden. It's also very obvious that its political establishment is trying hard to create a new flashy image of the city; that's been a recurrent theme since the eighties. Sometimes they seem just a bit too eager to jump at any new project which promises to invest Malmö with a new aura of (post)modernity. Today is Election Day and within 24 hours both Malmö and Sweden may have settled for a new political direction.Strausszek September 17, 2006 02:10 (CEST).

This was 5 years ago, now it's 2011. Exploding bombs were not a weekly occurrence back then. The Swedish Wikipedia article on Malmö has reliable information saying that Malmö has the second highest crime rate in Sweden. As for blaming it on the foreigners, Norwegian statistics show that immigrants from MENA are highly overrepresented among perpetrators of sexual assault (i.e. the victim does not know the attacker). It stands to reason that the situation is not much different in Sweden. AadaamS (talk) 12:52, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Topless?

The topless part in Malmö, completely irrelevant and in my opinion something that should perhaps have an own page, not the primary page of Malmö City. It would be like me stating how many McDonald's restaurants that city has — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ducce (talk • contribs) 21:10, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

I absolutely agree. It didn't right to list this as one of the key cultural highlights of the city. I have no objection to it being mentioned but it needs to go somewhere else. 212.137.36.228 (talk) 11:23, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

How the sources of the history section is used is unclear; these three sources were attached to the last paragraph:

1. Nordisk Familjebok (NF) article on "Malmö" (1912)
2. Encyclopaedia Britannica Eleventh Edition (1911)
3. Nationalencyklopedin (NE) article on "Malmö"

The two first can impossibly say anything on the modern history of Malmö and although NE is current, I doubt that they have anything on the high employment or social divisions in Malmö. So I removed them when editing the section (sorry for not giving my sources, but I was relying heavily on this and other webpages that I sadly clicked away) Steinberger (talk) 17:37, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Ideologically motivated, unsourced and poorly written

"Although, the transformation from a city with its economic base in manufacturing have returned growth to Malmö, it have largely benefited the already somewhat well-off. Malmö has the highest proportion of individuals of non-Scandinavian extraction of any Swedish city. And while the inner city are being gentrified and the upper-middle class have inhabited the Western Harbour, little have changed for the inhabitants of in the districts of the Million Programme; Malmö remains a city of sharp social divide and high unemployment."

Yes, it really says so in the last paragraph of the history section. It's an old story, the rich are getting richer as the poor are getting poorer. This is a holy vision to certain people and when the facts don't fit the vision, leave out the facts. That has been done here, I say let's remove it. 81.88.4.232 (talk) 02:05, 11 November 2011 (UTC) Bastogne

Former Yugoslavia

In the section "Demographics" there is a list of the countries of origin for the immigrant population. Rank number 3 is Former Yugoslavia. But rank 5 is Bosnia and Herzegovina and rank 17 is Republic of Macedonia. Are they also included in "Former Yugoslavia" and counted twice? Otherwise "Former Yugoslavia" should be 15,414. Or is former Yugoslavia just Serbia/Montenegro/Kosovo after the breakaway of Slovenia, Croatia &c? How are the definitions made? --Muniswede (talk) 07:14, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm trying to find statistics on scb but it's hard [3]

Fred-J 15:10, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

To clarify: The Demographic numbers state the citizenship of a person when they entered Sweden. So, there is nothing strange about Bosnia and Yugoslavia being separate entries since immigrants from Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, etc, were Yugoslav citizens if they immigrated before 1991 or so. After Bosnia-Herzegovina was established as an independent state people who immigrated from there were, of course, citizens of that country. The same goes of course for the categories Serbia, Serbia and Montenegro and Montenegro(listed as three different 'countries'), which exists further down in the Malmö Statistics page. Since someone has vandalized the page and changed Yugoslavia into "Bosniaks (Muslims) and Kosovar Muslim Albanians (14,450)"(which has no support in the sources) I'm going to take the liberty of returning them to separate categories, but add an explanation to why Bosnia and Former Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia are listed separately. If we were to return to just "Yugoslavia" we would have to add all the former Yugoslav states together(the 14,500 number is just Bosnia+Former Yugoslavia), and the number would be closer to 20,000. But since Yugoslavia doesn't exist any more I'm not really for that solution.--AnnoyedStatistician (talk) 17:31, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Should the demographics section be protected in some way?

I have updated the demographics section of this article, but when I go through the history of this article there has historically been quite a lot of semi-vandalism. Like changing Yugoslavia and Bosnia into "Bosnia (Muslims) and Kosovo Albanian (Muslims)", and the adding of the Palestinian category, even though the number of Palestinians are only around 400 according to the statistics of 2009(http://www.malmo.se/download/18.5d8108001222c393c008000131940/6+F%C3%B6delsel%C3%A4nder.xls) The number of Palestinians are too low for them to be in the other source(the referenced in the table) that only cites the 20 most common countries of origin. These instances of semi-vandalism, I would not count it as vandalism since I believe those who do it 'think' they know that all immigrants from former Yugoslavia were Bosnian and Kosovo Albanians, and that the 'real' number of Palestinians in Malmö is high, but still it's troublesome, since none of the editors seem to feel the need to actually ground their changes in any official statistic. Last day I removed the Palestinian entry and this day, it's back, even though there is no basis for its inclusion as the 11th largest country of origin (and to pre-empt the counterargument that they are represented in other categories, even if all people from Palestine, Israel and Other are added together it still would only be the 24th largest group, right between China and the USA, the previous number that appeared, 2,500 seem to have been a number made up on the spot).AnnoyedStatistician (talk) 12:58, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Must-Sees

I have removed the list of 'must-see' sights in Malmö for the following reasons: it is a poorly referenced list; it is written in a personally reflective style; it uses weasel words; it is self promoting and the subsection, per se, is not of an encyclopaedic nature. 86.145.90.103 (talk) 23:55, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Rythian

Why would this guy Rythian be notable, he just seems to me a minor Internet phenomenon? 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 20:40, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Bruce Bawer

I recently read Bruce Bawer's book While Europe Slept, which mentions Malmö and its integration problems. Is anyone interested in adding some info from the book into this article? I thought it was rather interesting. 75.73.54.206 (talk) 19:28, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Seeing how Mr Bawer advocates throwing out all Muslims out of Europe, you might as well quote the Breivik manifest! --46.195.58.243 (talk) 16:29, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

He doesn't advocate that at all, only that Europe should question its current approach to integrating them into mainstream society (as it is currently failing). 75.73.54.206 (talk) 18:19, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Intro

KM: Malmö is not the capital of Skåne it is the seat for the government authority Länstyrelsen and the Guvernour / Landshövdingen. The regional parliament and the administration is situated in Kristianastad. Thus this is the regional capital. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.235.200.51 (talk) 15:25, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Toumas: Nice to see that some of my changes were left intact... and I like how you arranged the thing about Burroughs. But I do ask: have you read the page about Multiculturalism? Please the the page. In what way do you think it does not fit to describe Malmö? I consider it to do so very much, and for that reason I have to change it back to what it was. Respond if you object. I like the other edits. Except that I personally don't consider Arlöv and Limhamn important enough to be in the introduction. --Fred chessplayer 19:57, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm convinced you'll gain from appreciating the cooperative nature of Wikipedia.

Belonging to one of those cultures an asserted multiculturalism ought to refer to, I just don't see any traces of other cultures than a Swedish (or often Scanian) expressed as anything else than as (more or less suppressed) subcultures. Concurring with the article on multiculturalism, I consider it a bad joke to say that Malmö should seriously strive to become that — let alone already have become.

I think you better explain where you see manifestations of different cultures being considered equal and being equally treated.

Best regards!

/Tuomas 22:01, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hello. Thanks for your advice. I'm sure you have a point in your comment. But I think the foreign influence can't be ignored. Don't you agree that all falafel, pizza and kebab shops and all shops around Möllan are the result of multiculturalism, and furthermore most politicians in the Möllevången stadsdel (and probably in other places) are foreigners? --Fred chessplayer 08:33, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yes, that's multi-ethnic, not proof of a multi-cultural society. Take holidays for instance. They are solidly attached to one Lutheran Swedish culture. /Tuomas 13:05, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Spelling of "Skåne" is important information since the name Scania isn't that well known and used. I for instance have always spelled it as "Skane". Also the name "Skåne" appears in the info box in the word "Skåne County".

Secondly I don't understand why the number 250,000 should link to Malmö Urban Area. It makes little sense.

Third, the way the paragraph about the Oresund Region is written now is more clear than the way it was written before, since it may be mistaken that the population figure of 3,5000,000 goes for just these two areas, when in fact they go for the Region in total.

These are the opinions I hold.

--Fred chessplayer 22:30, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The reason I originally added 'skåne' was because a) that is the name of the county, not scania. i feel it is important to introduce the name of places in their language and then, if absolutely necessary, use a translation. b) i've never heard scania before in my life. c) if you look at other references to locations in and around malmö, they are referred to using the swedish name, and then translated. and malmö is never translated, nor even spelled without ö.

On to the reverts: they don't make sense. i agree with fred chessplayer here. it's the entire region of öresund, not just copenhagen and malmö, that amount to 3 500 000 people. also, the second 'with' keeps coming back when you revert anyways. should you insist on reverting, i insist grammar is corrected.

--Jocke 01:56, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hi Jocke, hi again Fred!

I am not quite convinced that it was a wise move to designate the Swedish landskap in Latin, as is done, although I can see some advantages with this. However, in case you really think that their best known names in English are "Skåne", "Västergötland", and so on, then you shouldn't start here, but by renaming the articles in question. (All of them, i guess! :-)

I realize that I may appear smug, but that's not at all my intention. I wish to keep the Wikipedia articles conform with eachother.

I am, by the way, not quite convinced that I remeber where it says that "No unknown info in the Introduction" is policy. Can you help me out, Fred?

/Tuomas 10:55, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hello! Look at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Guide_to_writing_better_articles#Lead_section>. While it is not a policy, it is a guideline.

There is also a policy ( I think ) that unknown terms should be given a shorter explaination. If an American comes to this page , and reads "ah, he was born in Scania" how should he know what is Scania? This is why I keep adding the word "province" :-) --Fred chessplayer 11:25, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Adding "province of" is good, IMHO.

The reader that arrives to the page and reads "Malmö [...] (...) is the largest city in Scania and southern Sweden." understands from the context that "Scania" is an entity that can contain a city but is smaller than Sweden. If the reader doesn't know what Sweden or Scania is, then he might guess or he might click on the links. If he is interested in the Swedish name for Scania, or for Sweden, he is likely to check at these pages.

If "Skåne" is better known for native English-speakers, then the article name (of the article on Scania) ought to be changed, and Scania be made into a redirect. After that we have no, or very little, reason to use "Scania" at all.

The point is that this is not the place for that discussion. As long as the title of the article remains Scania, we do assume that "Scania" is the best known name in English, and then the addition of "Skåne" appears to be nothing but a foreign language distortion for the reader of the English text on Malmö. :-)

Thank you, for the direction to the guideline, by the way.

/Tuomas 11:49, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This is my opp on the intro: For us it is obvious what Scania is, but how can someone from another continent know? It could be a district, a province, an area. It also seems important to mention that Scania is the southernmost province in Sweden, since this is vital information for anyone who wants to visit it; however I'm tired of having my edits reverted all the time so I'm leaving it be for now.

A geographical map would also be great -- I've heard with lantmätariet, but their maps are not Public Domain and I don't know how else to acquire one.

A recent encyclopaedia begins Malmö city and port, seat of Skåne län (county), southern Sweden. It is located across The Sound (Öresund) from Copenhagen, Denmark. http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9050357

If people call Scania Skåne, why should we not do it? we are not the language police... i would consider it great if someone would give an explanation in the article -- I and Jocke have tried -- , but it seems other contributors are more interested in deleting others edits than making edits of their own.

I consider Vancouver a good model for how to make a page about a city. But it is a matter of taste, and I think the intro is OK as it is and will not change it. In any case, it's nice to see your interest in the article along with your latest edit on immigration! --Fred chessplayer 16:56, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Not seeing all of one's edits survive is part of life here around.
• You ask "If people call Scania Skåne..." - and this is an important point that I tried to address above. It can't be dealt with on the level of this singular article. It must be dealt with in a way that contributes to increased consistency within Wikipedia. (A quick Google test gives me the impression that "Scania" and "Skåne" appears about equally often in English texts on the WWW. Your points thus can not be dismissed without serious consideration.)
• The good thing with the internal wiki-links is that you don't have to explain things at the place where you use a linked concept. Explanations of what Scania (or Skåne) is can be made, and are better made, in the article on Scania. To illustrate this point: the Vancouver article does not give specifics about British Columbia, that is left to the very article on British Columbia.
• It's a very valid and relevant question, whether it's more important to point out Malmö as a Swedish or as a Scanian city, since trying to press in references to
  1. Towns of Scania
  2. List of cities in Sweden
  3. Scania (as one of the provinces of Sweden)
  4. Skåne County

may make the prose too uninviting, which is a bad thing for the start of an introduction.

• I'm not particularly good at keeping track of Wikipedia policies, but some direction is to be found at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). The Wikipedia-internal controversy is demonstrated at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English).
• Consistency within Wikipedia, with Wikipedia guidelines and policies, and with other Wikipedia articles is (according to what I perceive as the dominant opinion here) more important than consistency with other encyclopaedias. It goes without saying that different encyclopaedias aren't necessarily consistent with each other.

/Tuomas 22:45, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If one were to actually look at the Scania article, one would find 'Scania' being used as the title and initial reference only, and then 'Skåne' throughout the rest of the article (with the exception of the 'Terra Scania' reference). I would take that as a sign to therefore use 'Skåne' within an article, as is done in the Scania article. Also, the naming conventions tuomas gave only seems to point at this practice - use English for article titles, use native elsewhere. If I'm mistaken, find another article to prove me wrong, please. --Jocke 07:22, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't think there is much to add to this discussion. But maybe we ought to Wikipedia:state the obvious: Someone who is proficient in English has acquired the pattern to pronounce Scania but not Skåne.

Skåne is a good name, but it looks alien to the English reader and disturbs the reading process and decreases the credibility and makes the text look less professional. There is a great difference between using it in the article on Scania, where it can be properly explained, a pronunciation guide can be provided, etc, etc, ...compared to using it in other articles.

You read Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English), didn't you?

--Johan Magnus 16:50, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Other languages in the lead

Danish, Arabic, Serbo-Croatian... however "Malmö" might be spelled in either of these, none of them are relevant. If we'd list the spelling of the city in the native language of every single nationality residing in the city, the lead section would be longer than the current article. There is already interwiki for this stuff so let's not make things bloated without good reason. See WP:MOS. Kiruning (talk) 01:57, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, you are of course right. The Arabic spelling was a joke from my side used to set light on the rather odd argument about the the number of immigrant Danish speakers. There are also thousands of Swedish citizens living in Copenhagen, but the name Köpenhamn is not in the lead section. But there are more arguments: It is the very same name. "ö" and "ø" is also the same letter with the same sound. It is naturally for Danes to write it Malmø in the same way as Helsingør is often written Helsingör by Swedes. But the use of a Danish spelling in the lead of an article in English gives the wrong impression of a bilingual city. --Vedum (talk) 08:02, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Demonym

hey, What do we call people from Malmo? Malmoan? I cant remember/or I never knew? Some cities add the demonym to the box I noticed... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.238.152.3 (talk) 22:40, 8 January 2014 (UTC) Malmoeite?

Malmöbo (literally "someone who lives in Malmö") or Malmöit. Thomas.W ^{talk to me} 22:49, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

POV-section - Anti-Semitism & Hate crimes

I have added a POV-tag to the section about the situation in Malmö with regards to anti-Semitism. This belongs to Antisemitism in Sweden and just copying it from there to any article about the same topic is not right. Summarize the content instead. --IRISZOOM (talk) 10:52, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

I think since these incidents in Malmö were published in international press, slightly more than just a summary is called for. Posssiby I think the Antisemitism in Sweden article should summarise the section in this article and link to the AS section in this article rather than the other way around since those hate crimes occurred in Malmö. Which paragraphs in the section are POV? At a first glance, it seems mostly to be dealing with facts. If you are worried about copying, now that is an issue of duplication, not WP:POV The last paragraph in the section I think is not really relevant. AadaamS (talk) 07:27, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi IRISZOOM, I have changed your banner from POV to Template:Duplication. AadaamS (talk) 07:38, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi. POV includes balance and weight. But template you are referring to is probably best because it is specific. I will use this to replace the other articles I have tagged. Some have copied the text from that article and spread them around. This is not acceptable and looks like POV pushing. The situation in this article is much better than the others, however.

I think Antisemitism in Sweden should be the main article. This article is about the city. As with all other topics, we must give correct representation. The anti-Semitism section is long and detailed with info that belong to the main article. Just look at the third paragraph which is very long and takes up nearly a third of the part about anti-Semitism. Why is there info about incidents reported in three of the four different paragraphs about the topic when it could be discussed in one? We need more general info and it should not be forgotten than not every incident is notable. --IRISZOOM (talk) 08:10, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't know about so called "hate crimes", but the city has formally been designated as anti-Semitic by some Jewish organisations. Complaints against the police was made, as they didn't investigate vandalism at the synagogue. The Davis-Cup match between Sweden and Israel (Tennis) was held without attenders ! To the great frustration of most its citizens, but heavily cheered up by the SVT regional news "Sydnytt", who actually held a long "countdown" and almost every day asked "How many demonstrates will come ?" And "Can the police really deal with this ?". If "Sydnytt" hadn't scared everybody up, the game would have been played with audience. And most likely had Sweden then won the game, now Israel become the winners instead.

An other issue in the past, has been youths in Rosengård that throw stones at the fire brigade a number of times and also at the local buses. For no logical explanation. Boeing720 (talk) 01:18, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Railways

All the information in the transport section that concerns rail travel is related to the Øresund Bridge. If Malmö is the third-largest city in Sweden, then there must be rather more to its railway system than this recently-built bridge. It would be good to have more info here. Alfrew (talk) 00:23, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

There is some about City Tunnel (Malmö), though. --IRISZOOM (talk) 15:57, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

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The fourth archive link did not work but is now fixed manually. --JohanahoJ (talk) 06:56, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Social problems

Ok, I've found a source for the Fox News thing about Social Problems in Malmö. Here is a page I recommend with a discussion and a link to the Fox News story. [4] When I'm writing this, only the google cache works: [5]

A quick google search give other link that have drawn from the Fox story:

• [http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2004/11/swedes_reach_mu.php http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2004/11/swedes_reach_mu.php]
• http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/004060.php
• [6] In swedish

As the linked discussion page above suggests the Fox News article is very biased. I expect nothing else from a series focused on the Muslim Threat in Europe.

Someone might visit the Malmö article after watching the story on Fox, so it may be a good idea to write about the subject Social Problems in Malmö. I don't follow the debates in Sydsvenskan or read the paper at all, but someone who does and feels obliged to set things straight is welcomed to write. Fred chessplayer 02:14, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You may want to continue on my attempt at Malmö#Economy. Johan Magnus 04:45, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

...I also, when I was at it, restructured the initial section, whos heavy exercise of population figures has disturbed me. I forgot to put something in the edit-summary, though. ;-/ --Johan Magnus 05:29, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I might do it later. It looks OK though. --Fred chessplayer 05:41, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I live here in Malmö and here is big social problems with the people from other countries specially the Arabic ones, they don't go to school but rather born new child for money so there citation are treated specially here in rosengård (where i live). West Coast Ryda 11:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Spell check please! I live in Rosengård as well, and what you're writing about (or attempting to write about) is nothing but gossip, the kind of things people mention as a joke. People who take this kind of talk seriously are either ignorant and uneducated, racist or both. These people deliberately choose to ignore the hardship that immigrants in Rosengård live through. Post war trauma, constantly having to worry about relatives who are still in war, segregation once they come to Sweden, exposure to racism, discrimination in the job market. As much as people like you point your fingers at these immigrants, and claim they're being treated too well, at least one thing is true. In no way, shape or form would you want to trade places with them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.132.175 (talk) 18:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I object to your argument: You are clearly a leftist and ideologically motivated. 77.251.69.14 (talk) 19:41, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

How is that argument ideologically motivated? It's written by a person with definite first hand experience of the issue and he's only standing up for basic democratic values. If democracy is objectionable to you, that doesn't make everyone else "clearly leftist and ideologically motivated". Besides, if you want to object to a comment, do so on its own merits. Objecting by calling the person "clearly leftist" (when he's not even expressing ideological beliefs) is plain stupid. What's even funnier is that you fit the description in the post you objected to: "...ignorant, uneducated, racist...". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.145.39 (talk) 01:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

This is clearly a "leftist". Refugees from non muslim cultures aren't that hard to integrate. The lack of integration is due to islam, that's a fact. The empirical proof is just everywhere. Name me one country, where the islamic community doesn't pose a problem. Name me one country, where the islam dominates, that doesn't have huge violations of human rights and mass murder of other groups. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.9.132.101 (talk) 16:58, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

After hearing about widespread social problems from several media I wondered about the reality and figures, so I started to search Wikipedia, but instead I can't find a word about all this on the Wikipedia page. I don't know about the 'real' Sweden or Malmö, I just saw the stories. So when the whole world talks about a failing Swedish immigration policy resulting in a wave of unemployment, anti-Semitism, rape and violence and an alleged Swedish left-wing cover ups of those problems you might want to say a word or two about the matter. Especially when you think the International media is biased, you should present figures, not saying anything just backs up their stories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.212.50.182 (talk) 14:51, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't get why anti-Semitic cause have such large section here, but racial riots do not. While riots have much more international media coverage.Lola Rennt (talk) 21:23, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Which riots are you referring to? There's been riots in Malmö like at the European Social Forum and the Davis Cup match when team Israel played in Malmö. AadaamS (talk) 09:08, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Neither of those riots were racial riots. The reason that no "racial riots" are mentioned in the article is that there have never been any racial riots there, AFAIK. Thomas.W ^talk 17:04, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Correction on the historial population

The source used here (Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, page 494 - also accessible here and here) states that the population of Malmö was 38,054 in 1800. That was actually the population in 1880 but the figure for 1900 (60,857) is correct. It seems to be a printing error as it should be an 8 instead of a 0.

The city had 3,962 inhabitants in 1800 according to the municipality of Malmö who cite Statistics Sweden (Så har Malmö vuxit genom åren). There is also a table which shows the population from 1800 to 2010: Befolkningsutvecklingen i Malmö 1800-2010.

I will correct the figure and also add some on the historical population. --IRISZOOM (talk) 22:06, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

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About suggestion to work with Swedish Wikipedia

I removed that suggestion, since Swedish Wikipedia is one of the least collaborative in the world. We do a much better work without them, I say. Have a look here https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_article_depth Article Depth is a scientific method of measuring the collaborative work of a Wikipedia. Swedish Wiki has a rate of 5, Danish 66, German 99, English 911 - etc, Swedish Wiki is essentially not working well. What could we possibly get out of a collaboration with them, I ask ? Boeing720 (talk) 20:51, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Population figures are off

There seems to be some confusion (I'm confused at least) about how 'urban', 'total' and 'metro' are used in the infobox. Either way, the city has roughly 302,000 inhabitants, not 342,000 (Statistics Sweden), the municipality 320,000 (or so) and the metro area c. 710,000. The parts of the city that lie in the municipality has 280,000 or so, I believe. Some numbers are up to date (2015; last official 'census') but still listed as 2012 data. Also, it seems like someone have done their own calculations based on raw data from Statistics Sweden and just added up the municipalities that contain part of the city - but of course not all of the inhabitants in these municipalities live in Malmö. Could someone more experienced take a look at this and correct the numbers? Accusativebond (talk) 12:59, 19 February 2017 (UTC)Accusativebond

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Notorious ghetto boiling with riots

Hi fellow Malmöiter!

An IP-user added this paragraph:

Social problems

A large part of the population in Malmö are immigrants. The notorious ghetto Rosengård is boiling with gangs and riots, and the unemployment ratio is very high. When the Islamic mosque burned down in 2002, immigrants were throwing rocks at the firemen thus preventing them from putting out the fire. Fox News did a cover story on the severe immigrant problems in Malmö in 2004.

Maybe not a totally accurate description. I'm sure every city has "social problems" if you look deep enough. What do we compare to? Malmö has 16% immigrants or similar. London and Paris have far greater (I think). If you have ever been to Rosengård I don't think you would find it boiling with riots.... The unemployment ratio is high among immigrants in Rosengård, but to say "very high" is not accurate... in some parts it is 20% , in some 50%.

The Islamic mosque did not burn down (I live just 200 meters from it and should know) , an adjacent not finished school building did, and another adjacent building. Fred chessplayer 09:25, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:212.247.86.17, who added the passage in question, seems to originate in Helsingborg. In my judgement, (s)he attempts to use Wikipedia as a propagandist tool. He is, of course, not alone in such habits, but there is no reason why the text should remain. One of the things Wikipedia least of all ought to be is a forum of discussion.

I have, however, absolutely nothing against figures for segregation and immigration and so on. But the article must be balanced and credible, not a vehicle for xenophobic parties that hope to get the same influence east for Öresund as they now have in the west.

I removed both the passage and the npov-banner. Johan Magnus 15:28, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Okay, so the IP editor was wrong about which building burnt down. Still, 20% unemployment (which Fred says is the lowest among these people) is obscenely high and Malmö is indeed notorious for the problems caused by the numerous immigrants. London and Paris are not comparable; they both have a long history of legal migration. The barbarians who sneak across borders in search of Swedish/German/Danish government welfare payments are the opposite of the ambitious, high-achieving bankers and solicitors who go to London. Johan, you accuse the IP editor of trying to use Wikipedia for biased propaganda, yet deliberate bias is the only explanation for this article's failure to mention Malmö's world-famous problem. I'm Australian and even I've heard about it. (125.63.27.35 (talk) 09:08, 27 July 2017 (UTC))

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Gang violence in 2018

"Two explosions rock Malmö as gang conflict continues - The Local". 2018-12-20. Archived from the original on 2018-12-20.

--Geekyroyalaficionado (talk) 03:11, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Which king is which?

Does anyone know enough French or history to determine who each king is in File:Meeting_of_Scandinavian_kings_2.jpeg? I figure that's a significantly interesting piece of information to warrant its inclusion in the page.

ApricotOstrich (talk) 04:44, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Danish pronunciation

Why is the Danish pronunciation relevant here? I don’t see any Swedish pronunciation on Copenhagen.Jonteemil (talk) 00:57, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Malmö was part of Denmark for hundreds of years. Copenhagen wasn't Swedish. /Julle (talk) 11:33, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

GaWC

I don't see how this fairly unknown definition of cities belong in the article at all, but definitely not in the introduction, where it's supposed to explain the central information about the city. /Julle (talk) 06:35, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

I removed this. /Julle (talk) 11:34, 22 May 2019 (UTC)