Talk:Long Island iced tea/Archive 1

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Archive 1

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There seems to be a lot of evidence that this drink was actually invented in the 1970s at the Oak Beach Inn (OBI). Check Google. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike Schiraldi (talk • contribs) 08:07, 8 June 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to see any evidence that the OBI was located at any time in its history in HAMPTON BAYS. To the best of my recollection, OAK BEACH INN was on the Ocean side of Ocean Parkway, on -- I assume -- Oak Beach, just west of the Robert Moses Bridge. Hampton Bays is much further to the east of both. Perhaps the author is confusing the OBI with the CANOE PLACE INN which was in fact located in HAMPTON BAYS? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.139.22.54 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
There were several OBI locations. The OBI East was near the Shinnecock Canal between Hampton Bays and Southampton. See the Wiki page on the Oak Beach Inn. [Paul Newman, Kings Park, NY native] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.57.248 (talk • contribs) 23:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Taste like tea?

"The drink also shares a similar taste to tea." C'mon! If a long island ice tea tastes like tea to you, then you have either been drinking bad tea or bad long islands. Also, to me, a LIIT needs tequila and the cola must be Coca-Cola. Pepsi just doesn't have the complexity 58.107.87.183 09:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I've reworded the tastes like tea bit, to make it a little more NPOV. 58.107.87.183 09:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I think it tastes like artificially sweetened tea beverage ie: nestea or something like that 71.79.89.211 23:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
I will be happy to clear up any misconseptions about the LIIT. I was there.(Dabigw 03:01, 1 August 2007 (UTC))
"I was there" isn't a reference. The information you continue inserting is unverifiable by anyone else. This is why I keep removing it. Putting it up there and hanging a "citation needed" tag isn't valid, either. Provide proof from a reliable source and hey, great, it's verified and I can leave it alone. fethers 17:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Dear Feathers, Please excuse me. I'm not sure how to correctly have a discussion with you. I certainly am not proficient at using Wilipedia. You seem to be an expert. This is my first experience being directly involved with Wikipedia. I certainly don't want to yell at you. This is the 30th anniversary of what I believe to be the origin of the Long Island Ice tea. Because another bartender from OBI got his name in print doesn't make his the only verifiable story. It hasn't been easy staying quiet these many years. At this point in my life I figured the truth as I know it should be discussed. If in fact there is verifiable proof that the Long Island Ice Tea existed before 77-78 I will back down and call it a coincidence. Is the reason you keep pulling the story from Wikepedia because you have first hand knowledge? Dabigw 19:57, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia Dabigw. From what I can tell, Fethers is not removing any content due to his first hand knowledge, but due the fact that the claims are unverified. Check out that link to see what the burden of proof is on Wikipedia. Your contributions are certainly welcome, but they must be verifiable by reliable, third party sources - no original research. If you've got a source, check out WP:CITE for how to write citations. --skew-t 02:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Wow strange debate, it is called Long Island Ice Tea because it tastes like very sweet ice tea made from a mix served in cheap bars and diners, it is also often served in the same glass as ice tea is served to enhance the illusion. I agree it tastes nothing like real tea, so whatGeo8rge (talk) 22:43, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
A further comment 6 years on from the last... a GOOD Iced Tea does, in fact, taste like non-alcoholic iced tea. Those who think differently have never had a GOOD Long Island Iced Tea. Most places that sell them and most bartenders who make them do not have the faintest idea of what makes a good LI Iced Tea. Most of the junk you get is a sickly sweet concoction that tastes nothing like the real thing. Bad diners? "Sweet" tea? Give me a break. An authentic Iced Tea (I live on Long Island, we leave the "Long Island" part of the name for the tourists) is something most of the commenters here have never had, that's pretty obvious. JeffTracy (talk) 08:55, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Origins

There is mention of the possible origins in the article, and a link at the bottom. Someone needs to link these two as a citation. 58.107.87.183 09:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I imagine people that remove information without fixing what they feel is a problem is a common practice on Wikipedia. I have studied the origins of Long Island Iced Tea for many years because I grew up adjacent to the tiny community of Long Island in Kingsport, Tennessee where this cocktail was invented by Charles Bishop in the 1920's, passed along to his son Ransom and took mainstream in the 1940's. The people of Long Island, Tennessee simply called it Ransom's Tea - and they had a great time with Teatotalers. What puzzles me is that people don't want to know the truth about anything. The almost always believe what they are told to believe. I write a book about the community of Long Island - whoop - a -dee - do, it's about common people. It's about "The Man" not giving the little guy his say. It's about the birth and origin of Long Island Iced Tea. I only want the story preserved. I could care less about Pecuniary gain. The fact that these crooked "by the book" Wiki-experts believe they know everything but consistently bash and take away good information based on their opinion is beyond me. This is one reason people get disenchanted with Wikipedia - because these so-called experts know very little about truth - only what they are told to believe and think. (UnderstandingApples (talk) 16:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC))
This just showed up "the liquor ad that only gays were supposed to see". Gawker..

May I make a contribution to oral history before it's totally forgotten? Since it doesn't turn up on Google, I may be the last repository of this knowledge. What we know as the Long Island Ice Tea began its life as the Fire Island Ice Tea. It was created at Fire Island Pines at the Blue Whale in the 1970s and served during tea dance. AFter a short period of time mainland kids discovered that it was a damned fine date rape concoction and began turning up, not exactly welcome, at the tea dance. And they began falling into the harbor and blocking the ferry, which was driven by a friend of mine at the time. I also was around in those days, idly and without compensation helping deliver the Sunday Times to Calvin Klein and Tommy Tune. Amazingly, ferry captains and their dissolute friends like the drink too. Anyway, the Pines bartenders stopped serving it, and the drink migrated across the Bay and was picked up by mainland LI bartenders, who renamed it to eliminate the gay connection. Over the past few years some gay drink mixers have been doing a variant of the Long Island Ice Tea and calling it the Fire Island Ice Tea. No, Mary, not quite. Other way around.

Doubt it can be verified obviously, but does it deserve mention at least as a possible origin? 76.14.65.190 (talk) 22:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the Tennessee bootlegging moonshine story is a fable, see "Recipe".. The Long Island (Tennessee) connection seems even more impossible as the island was a chemical factory since the '20s. I also wonder how they got from moonshine and coke (I assume) to the ingredients in LIIT. Where did they get all 5 liquors, in white form, during the prohibition? And why did they reduce their value by mixing them with coke? The whole story seems like complete BS to me. I think Y'all have been snookered. I don't mind it being mentioned but it is most likely BS Geo8rge (talk) 22:59, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Rereading the story, I also doubt there are any hills on Long Island Tennesse as the story suggests. The story also seems to imply that what was concocted was moonshine, maple syrup, coke and lemon(I assume). Which is not a LIIT. Once again I say the story is scam. Geo8rge (talk) 23:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
"Fire Island Ice Tea" is also most likely a fable. I see it mentioned in all the net exactly once. Geo8rge (talk) 23:02, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I see the following problems with the Long Island (Tennessee) origin:

  • The Long Island (Tennessee) connection seems impossible as the island was a chemical factory since the '20s.
  • As far as I can find there are no hills on Long Island (Tennessee), as the story states.
  • The drink described seems to be moonshine, maple syrup, coke and lemon(I assume), which is not a LIIT.
  • I doubt that during prohibition it was possible to get all 5 liquor ingredients, in white form, in the 'hills' of Long Island (Tennessee)
  • In the south they use the term sweet tea not ice tea. I admit in the 1930's in TN it might be ice tea.
  • The story goes "Tennessee remained a "dry" state up until late 1970s" but Jack Daniels resumed production in 1939.
  • While it is possible that barmen attempted to disguise an alcoholic beverage as ice tea, it does not seem practical for a bootlegger as it would mean transporting diluted booze. The economics do not work.
  • During prohibition it would have been hard to get all 5 liquors together in one place except for very high end places where the drink would surely have gotten publicity. Also The drink would have likely have appeared openly in Canada and Cuba, which did not have prohibition.
  • The WP entry may be a publicity stunt by the author or publisher of the 'apples' book, or a misguided fan..

I personally think the entry should be deleted or mentioned as a footnote, or as LIIT in popular culture. It seems like a really bogus story to me.Geo8rge (talk) 11:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

If the history is traced to the Oak Beach Inn, Babylon, New York, I believe it is based upon a concoction I created at a cast party at my house in the spring of 1974. I was a senior at the West Islip High School, we had just finished put on MacBeth at the school. I had the cast party at my house. One of the girls at the party asked for a different type of drink, so I mixed four liquors together, add a teaspoon of sugar and the Cocoa Cola for color. It was a big hit.
It would not supprise me if that girl, after graduating college, came back to the Oak Beach Inn, and asked the bartender to make up the drink. I cannot remember her name, I would have to go to the year book to see if I can remember who it was. The Inn was a local bar to West Islip as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.39.245.254 (talk) 15:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Fans and historians claimed [...] What fans? What historians? Sounds apocryphal, and it contradicts the history section. Spike2021 (talk) 18:05, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Whether it's "fans and historians" or "claimed" by some unmentioned authority, it is nothing but weasel words. Unless and until a clear citation is found, I will continue to tag, and eventually will remove the prohibition-connection nonsense. Spike2021 (talk) 16:56, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
  • invented during the Prohibition era This seems bogus as the during prohibition getting the ingredients in the same place seems impossible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geo8rge (talk • contribs) 11:43, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Actual Origins

The Older Man, Charles Bishop, in the late 1920's concocted the first mixture of Long Island Iced Tea known of to the general underbelly of Kingsport upon the once sacred ground of Long Island in Tennessee. "The Meeting Place" holds the truth to the origins of this drink and Old Man Bishop's son Ransom perfected the drink in the 1940's. It contained their own homemade rum, white liquor, etc, but the KEY - and this for you is free - is the maple syrup. In the dirty south we are known for improvising to get by - stick it to the Man - and the teetotaler (or Tattle tale) information mainstreamed by the Corporate elite as false is actually TRUE. Those witnesses are still alive - though they pass away with each day - The Greatest Generation - your ancestors and mine. They fought together at Normandy and they died together at the Bastionne. Calling Hack Cleek "Click", an honorable man, a liar - or Clay "Dirt" Rodefer dishonest is like saying a chicken with it's head cut off isn't dead. It is gone gone gone, though it may run a mile and strut a final step. TRUTH - real truth - is obscured by deciet... lies. We must recognize the wolf. I am not saying Mr. Butt's claim doesn't have merit but his resurface has come much too late. Those of us who know the TRUTH - don't want a handout. We would prefer that TRUTH be preserved and that credit is given to the common men that first invented it. Tennessee remained dry until the 1970's where I live - the blue laws did not effect us. There was no reason to make the actual claim until Ransom - an ornery cuss but proud and simply put - a smooth salesman that sought no recognition for his contribution to the world - may not have spoke up then for fear of being incarcerated... again, his story deserves told just as much as Mr. Robert Butt's claim to a similar, stronger brother to our proud Long Island and your, too.

JS Moore. "The Long Island of the Holston, Tennessee". (UnderstandingApples (talk) 02:18, 16 March 2008 (UTC))

Variations

I removed the out-of-control section about variations on the LIIT theme. There was no verification that these drinks are in widespread use. Also, when an explanation sounds like "this is substituted for this, and this other stuff is substituted for this other thing..." then we're talking about an entirely different drink, not just a variation. Joyous! | Talk 14:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge: Hamptons Iced Tea

I added a {{mergefrom}} tag for the article Hamptons Iced Tea. To me, this reads like a slight variation on the LIIT, but I don't know a lot about drink mixing, so please correct me! kateshortforbob 11:40, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism?

As can be seen, tequila was removed from the recipe which can't be correct? I'm not sure enough to revert this. --130.208.147.148 21:44, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism indeed. Tequila is listed in the "IBA recipe"., which the infobox references. Reverted. --skew-t 11:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Disagree. I would like to know the ages of people who think tequila should be in a LIIT. Back when I drank more you only got tequila in one from some of those awful fake Mexican restaurants, and they sold them as Mexican Iced Teas. I drank at bars all over and never had tequila added. (I also had at least one bartending book - Mr Boston's - with the same non-tequila recipe.) I think adding tequila is something new. (Within the last 15? years). Jwkinraleigh (talk) 05:08, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
I grew up in Long Island from 1963 through the 80's. LIIT was my "birthday drink" from the time I was old enough to use a fake ID (16). Every bar I ever went to on LI served LIIT with Tequila. It continues to amaze me that this is even a point of confusion! [Paul Newman, Kings Park HS, Class of '81] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.57.248 (talk • contribs) 16:14, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

My Favorite Drink

The industry recipe is: Vodka, Tequila, Rum, Gin, and Triple Sec. Caveat: All Clear. After the standard 1 oz. pour of all liquors, add sour mix and coca cola. See The Cheeseake Factory's menu for more industry standard drinks. InvisibleDiplomat (talk) 15:39, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Highball?

I thought a highball had to have more mixer than spirit? A LIIT is 15 parts spirit (if you put them all together) and 11 parts non-acloholic liquid.86.167.221.159 (talk) 23:03, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

~28% alcohol?

I just noticed the wiki says "The drink has a much higher alcohol concentration (~28%) than most highballs because of the proportionally small amount of mixer" this can't be right can it? Using the following brands:

  • Bacardi white rum (37,5%)
  • Smirnoff vodka (37,5%)
  • Sauza silver tequila (38%)
  • Gordon's gin (37,5)
  • Cointreau (40%)

... the combined 7,5cl of these in the drink contain 38,1% alcohol, which is 2,8575cl... if 2,8575cl is 28% of the drink, that means the total amount of liquid in the drink would be 2,8575/28=0,10205 (1%) *100=10,205cl ... the liquors in the drink already make up 7,5cl, the lemon juice and gomme syrup another 5,5 which already makes a total of 13cl ... even without the added cola that's already less than 28% ... a dash is 0,9cl if i am correct, so that means the drink in total would contain 13,9cl of liquid...

  • 1% would be 0,139cl
  • 2,8575/0,139=20,56%

now 0,9cl is not a lot, so i would picture most bartenders putting in more than that, making the alcohol percentage even lower ... unless I'moverlooking some commonly used other brands of the liquors, which have higher alcohol percentages, i'd say that saying the drinks contains ~20% alcohol is more accurate... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hagelslagfabrikant (talk • contribs) 19:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

You seem to have forgotten the large amount of ice most bars put in the glasses, so there is probably far less lemon juice and syrup in it then you think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.3.37.79 (talk) 23:25, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Northern New Jersey, 1977

This is only my story, which is why it's here and not on the Wikipedia page proper, but I had "Long Island Iced Teas" at a bar in Northern New Jersey in 1977 and 78. I later made them for my college fraternity parties in Virginia in the later 70s and early 80s, but that's another story.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.111.133.185 (talk) 18:47, 21 December 2008 (UTC) 

More Origins Discussion

An IP editor is currently changing the article's content as to the invention of this cocktail - unfortunately without adding any references to support the changes. Are there verifiable sources, other than the print book by Degrof? Or is the true inventor lost in the mists of the 70s? Geoff T C 02:19, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I haven't seen any obviously reliable sources online stating the origin. Ask Yahoo and EHow mention the same details as this article does at present, but I'm not sure they match up to WP:RS and they don't specify their own source. Perhaps the dearth of info is in part due to the popular legend the drink was made to disguise the alcohol content during prohibition. --skew-t (talk) 03:16, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Merger of Frankston Iced Tea

I've added the text starting with, ":The Frankston Iced Tea is a highball containing Irish Whiskey, ...." in order to merge this NN cocktail. Cites needed. Bearian (talk) 20:02, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Long Island Iced tea

was created in shooters pub on montauk hwy. in Hampton Bays. Mongo was the owner,Bevo was his partner, we had a contest to see who could come up with the craziest cocktail, the original name was a GLASS of BRAINS, which was eventually changed to Ricardo's iced tea. we had a couple of bar owners from jersey who asked if they could serve the drink in their bar, at the time the recipe was a secret. they would come out every couple of weeks and one time they said what a hit it was, i said i did not want to be presumptuous because several bartenders Harpo Mickey Shields the Shaft had something to do with the cocktail. so i told Billy the owner of a bar from jersey to call it Long Island Iced Tea . this was in 1974 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.230.140.84 (talk) 02:09, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

The Craig Gilmore Iced Tea

OK, what does this excerpt supposed to mean? "The Craig Gilmore Iced Tea substitutes bacon vodka for the vodka, bacon gin for the gin, bacon rum for the rum, bacon tequila for the tequila, and a slice of bacon for garnish." Dreammaker182 (talk) 05:07, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Angosturas Bitters

I've been drinking LIITs in UK bars since I was old enough, and I've never seen it served with Angosturas Bitters. I think the comment that the unpopularity of sours mix means that other things are often used instead is relatively accurate but I wouldn't like to generalise about UK cocktails like that. I've in fact worked in a bar where sours mix was used, and another uses lemon purée and a squeeze of lime. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.201.176 (talk) 19:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Recipe

According to the german entry the original recipe does not include coke. Though the IBA recipe is used for the article it would be nice to mention this difference. There is probably a bit of research needed.178.9.135.122 (talk) 11:57, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Variations II

I removed this section because it's getting out of control, again. (Texas Tea: gin is substituted with tequila. ... there's already tequila in the drink.) I left the Adios Motherfucker because I am comfortable that is a widespread variant, but I'm fine with someone removing it because it's not sourced. 67.164.156.42 (talk) 07:08, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

I think I had originally tagged the section. I'm removing the final one as unsourced. I fully believe there are hundreds of variations. However, without sources we have no indication that any of them pass the level of being "(your) Grandma's apple pie": yeah, one person (or several, if you count your aunts) make it that way, but it isn't significant to the history of apple pies. Sorry, Grandma. - SummerPhD (talk) 15:35, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Long Beach Iced Tea

I tried looking up Long Beach Iced Tea, but it re-directed here. I though re-directs were only for variations on the name of the same thing (such as "puma" or "mountain lion" redirecting to the article for "cougar"). Maybe it's a variation on the Long Island Iced Tea, but the Long Beach Iced Tea looks different, tastes very different and is definitely a different drink. To have it automatically redirect to the the Long Island Iced Tea page without further explanation implies that the two names refer to the same thing. If it's not going to get its own article, wouldn't it be better to have it just return ' The page ____ does not exist '? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.169.167 (talk) 01:26, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

IBA Standard

This drink, like any other IBA drink, should adhere to a standard. That standard includes content, measures and procedure. The procedure I put on the page, and which was removed multiple times, is the one taken from the IBA site. It is also an IBA standard drink, putting a reference to the IBA official list seems redundant, as there are already links and info showing that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.60.238 (talk) 00:28, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Possible copyright violation removed

This edit added material that previously appeared here, apparently in 2009. Evrik, who added the material is a regular at Wikipedia, so I figured I might be missing something, but have had no response to my question. I have removed the material in question. - SummerPhDv2.0 13:26, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

The Adios Mother is consider a variation of the Long Island Ice Tea or a Blue Hawaiian.[1]
  • I did eventually get to it ... Adios Mother redirects here so I thought some mention was important. --evrik (talk) 17:56, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.scienceofdrink.com/2008/02/10/one-long-island-iced-tea-please-and-adios-mothefucker/langswitch_lang/en/

Removing Origin Spam

I just removed some references to the Long Island Iced Tea having been in print in the 1960's. On March 11, 2014, the user, Drinkreader, added a note that read, "According to David Herpin the Long Island Iced Tea appears in literature as early as 1961 New picture cook book by Betty Crocker in 1961 American home all-purpose cookbook by Virginia T. Habeeb in 1966 Punch: Volume 256 by Henry Mayhew, Mark Lemon, Tom Taylor in 1969". I looked up the New Picture Cook Book by Betty Crocker and the American Home All-Purpose Cookbook, but neither one had a reference to the Long Island Iced Tea. Drinkreader, made a lot of contributions to other cocktail entries using the phrase, "according to David Herpin." [1] So those too may be subject to more scrutiny. But for this article, I just removed the references to the drink appearing in print in the 1960's.

I also removed the mention that, "Local rumors also ascribe the origin to either Butt or another bartender at the Oak Beach Inn, Chris Bendicksen." When you read the cited source, Chris Bendicksen is mentioned as a rumor but there is no more context or credence to it then that. So, it didn't seem appropriate for this entry.

FidelCashflow (talk) 16:55, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Drinkreader&offset=&limit=500&target=Drinkreader

Long Island, Tennessee notes

I was born in 1948 in Kingsport, Tennessee. Long Island is on the south end of town surrounded by the forks of the South Holston River.

  • Zero. The odds of two places both named Long Island developing a mixed drink called a Tea are pretty high.
  • One. Long Island was and is only partially owned by the Eastman chemical company, with a small residential community on the east end dating from the 1920s and a park commemorating the Cherokee Indian meeting ground on the west end.
  • Two. Only recently did the chemical plant buy out the last holdout residents of the Long Island community to further expand the factory to the east. There are other businesses, ball fields, and the park still on the west end.

 

  • Three. The county also had local option prohibition 1953-1968. Social membership-only clubs like VFW, Eagles, etc. with state liquor licenses were exempt. Six miles north, Virginia state operated Alcohol Beverage Commission stores. Long Island had bootleggers in that time (as did my neighborhood).
  • Four. During the late 1960s, I heard talk of Long Island Tea among party goers (notice, no ice.) It was kind like "jail house stew" -- everyone who came to a party contributed what they brought to the punchbowl, just like everyone contributed what they brought to the pot for jail house stew.

On who was first, May and June 2018 Kingsport Times-News carried a series of articles on the Long Island Iced Tea controversey. Two taste-offs were scheduled 27 Jun 2018, the Kingsport Team at Hudson's on the Mile at Long Island, New York, and then 13 Jul 2018, the New York team at Kingsport. www.timesnews.net/tags/long-island-iced-tea -- Naaman Brown (talk) 02:34, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 22 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: MOVED as proposed - consensus is that it's not a proper noun per reliable sources. Nice Ngram usage - it really clinched the argument that the name is not predominately capitalized. (non-admin closure) Red Slash 05:54, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Long Island Iced Tea → Long Island iced tea – capitalization is currently incorrect Зенитная Самоходная Установка (talk) 04:23, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 14:36, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
Comment False, it's about the mixed drink that anyone can make in their home. This is not an article about Long Island Iced Tea Corp. Зенитная Самоходная Установка (talk) 20:44, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
Either way, it's STILL not about iced tea made on Long Island, but about a drink called "Long Island Iced Tea".ZXCVBNM (TALK) 00:47, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment Broader discussion going on at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)#What_do_you_think_about_capitalization_of_cocktail_names? Зенитная Самоходная Установка (talk) 22:31, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Support lowercase, as it frequently appears in sources. Not a proper name. Dicklyon (talk) 22:58, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per MOS:CAPS, WP:NCCAPS, and dozens of but hundreds of prior moved of other recipe topics, from ethnic dishes to herbal teas to breakfast foods to coffee cultivars to traditional stuff drinks like malta and hotchata. Cocktail names are absolutely not proper names any more than any other folk recipe is. This is already covered by MOS:GAMES, which applies to all generic folk/popular culture topics generally (dances, sports, card games, etc., etc.). Generic recipes of any kind are not some mystical exception. The fact that drinks-focused editors have engaged in a blatant WP:Specialized style fallacy, over-capitalizing in a topic area hardly anyone else pays attention to is not any kind of excuse; it's a WP:CONLEVEL policy failure, and means nothing more than we need to move several more articles in that category. Just as we did a year or two ago with dances (and after an RfC that firmly concluded to lower-case such public-domain things). PS: The fact that the name of this drink is jokey doesn't transmogrify it somehow into a proper name. Welsh rabbit is a symmetrical example.  — AReaderOutThataway t/c 05:36, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Support. There is absolutely no reason for cocktails to be seen as proper names. This seems to be some sort of conceit of cocktail fans, just as military fans and police fans (in particular) support the conceit that all military and police terms should be capitalised. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:05, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - It's a common enough bar staple that there's no proprietary reason to capitalize all four words.--WaltCip (talk) 14:17, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - per MOS:CAPS, WP:NCCAPS, Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia. This is the substantive criertia for determining the question, as arrived at by a broad community consensus. Per this n-gram, it does not meet the threshold to be capped in full. However, I will address the theoretical arguements made. There is an often perceived but false equivalence between proper names and capitalisation - the former being a matter of grammar and the other, a matter of orthography. There are lots of things that might be capitalised that are not proper names. Proper names are not descriptive. Caps have been traditionally used to distinguish a phase as a phrase (see MOS:WORDSASWORDS) since typewriters could only otherwise only use underline or quote marks and special fonts added to the cost of typesetting. Such use does not make it a proper name nor does it mean that "capitalisation is necessary" per the MOS. I would agree that the name is not descriptive or its description is in a satirical way since, while it may look like iced tea, there is no tea in it. This criteria is therefore open to debate. Where a proper name is for a set, the size of the set is fixed and invariable. Just had one, so there goes that theory. The name is for the recipe, you might say. A recipe is an intangible, an idea - which may be written down and reproduced. Abstract or intangible nouns are rarely considered proper nouns - and then, generally only when they are personified (such as gods). So what of a particular model of car. Well, that comes under capitalising of brand names. If anything, this particular name is more like a title, similar to the title of a book. But everybody is so hung up on what a proper name is nobody would even think to argue that. And in any case, the guideline says to rely on the empirical evidence and that evidence does not support capping. Regards, just had another one, Cinderella157 (talk) 06:06, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per User:AReaderOutThataway. —  AjaxSmack  23:58, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
  • Support I think the question of the capitalization of cocktail names in general is a bit more subtle than others have claimed. (This MLA blog post on the subject is an interesting read. But basically style guides and reference works vary significantly in how they treat the problem.) I think the best we can do is analyse RS usage (per MOS:CAPS and WP:NCCAPS) on a case-by-case basis. In this case, as Cinderella157 has shown, RS do not consistently capitalize "Long Island iced tea", so we should not (in the title, or in running text). Colin M (talk) 01:19, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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