Talk:List of video games considered the best/Archive 3

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Can Halo 2 go on this list?

Halo 2 was considered one of the best, why is it not on the list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RaveMaster409 (talk • contribs) 00:22, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

• Doesn't qualify. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 00:49, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

EGM list

• Was this list used? Appears not: [1] TarkusAB^talk 10:12, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Nevermind, maybe because it's only console games. TarkusAB^talk 10:14, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
    • Yep, console-only list. Phediuk (talk) 17:06, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Should we have a column with the number of references?

I guess it would be useful to sort the games by the total number of lists that referenced them, it is not easy to do it now. (FWIW, #1 is Super Mario 64 AFAICT) --Netol (talk) 23:08, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

No. It would naturally favor older games and imply they are somehow greater than more recent entries. TarkusAB^talk 00:34, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

I also oppose this proposal, as implying a ranking of games based on the number of references runs afoul of WP:SYNTH. Phediuk (talk) 05:55, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

We already got rid of this from a previous version of the list for the same above reasons. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 16:27, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Ok. But note that this list already implies that the best games have more references (a game with only four references will not be included). IMHO, a better title for this list could have been: "List of video games considered the best by at least five different reliable publications". --Netol (talk) 14:14, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Way too long. Article titles don't need to fully explain themselves, that's what the lead is for. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 00:31, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

I don't know how to reply on talk pages but I find it a real travesty how Morrowind was not mentioned but Skyrim was, Skyrim may have received a lot of rewards but it isn't a better TES game than Morrowind is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DarkStar-BlackSun (talk • contribs) 06:10, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

That's your opinion. The sources list Skyrim enough times to warrant inclusion. They did not do so for Morrowind. TarkusAB^talk 10:23, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Awards are not currently accounted for inclusion. Although I am also surprised Morrowind isn't here, if it's not included on five lists from five different reliable publications, it doesn't belong here. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 20:43, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

2018 sources

• https://www.slantmagazine.com/games/the-100-greatest-video-games-of-all-time/

Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 00:58, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

@Jhenderson777: Sorry but these don't qualify. Please read the FAQ at the top of this page. TarkusAB^talk 01:04, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Duly noted. Just added what may be potential sources. Wasn’t sure of the criteria then. Are they on the list or do you only include number one? Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 01:16, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your question. We only list games that appear on five "best of all time" lists, the position on the list does not matter. TarkusAB^talk 01:25, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

JHenderson: Basically the context is that after a bunch of low-quality sources were added in the past, the guidelines were massively tightened to be strictly best-of-all-time lists. The theory behind this is that best-of-a-year or best-on-a-system lists can be misleading; maybe no all-time great games came out one year, maybe 20 did. From the current derived list, there are 0 2014 games, but 5 2012 games, for one example. SnowFire (talk) 02:18, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

To be clear, the above comment was responding to what JHenderson originally wrote, which was since replaced. The Slant list is good, but it's above - see #Slant's list of top games and "List 30" in the article. SnowFire (talk) 03:12, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Yep you’re right. But does lists like that allow for inclusions for video games such as Super Mario Odyssey etc? For I don’t see the particular game on here (unless I missed it). Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 03:32, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

The inherent structure of this article makes it difficult for recent games to get on, since no pre-2017 lists are going to include Odyssey. Breath of the Wild made it, but only by running the table in semi-recent lists. So it can happen, but it is harder. This will slowly change as new lists are added and perhaps some old lists are occasionally rolled off. It's also been discussed before to have slightly different thresholds for "recent" games and perhaps very old games that are harder to find sources for, e.g. once we have 40 lists maybe going to 6 sources for games that came out between 1990-2010 and only 5 sources for pre-1990 or post-2010. Be warned this might be controversial / contested, though, since it slightly dulls the clarity of the list and might lead to more special pleading later. SnowFire (talk) 06:23, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

This entire section needs a full rewrite.

Numerous games appear on this page that are then "verified" by publications that are so laughably unprofessional that this list is basically pointless. WhatCulure.com is not - at all - considered to be a major publication and Scott Tailford, who created the "best of" list that is referenced here, is not remotely an industry professional or has ever even worked in the industry. If this is going to be a "random person on the internet's best of list aggregate" then so be it, but it should otherwise be limited to MAJOR publications and not WhatCuluture.com, or Stuff.tv, or TheWrap.com. Major publications include IGN, Game Informer, Gamespot, G4, Giant Bomb, Polygon, Nintendo Insider, etc. There are games on this list that didn't even win a single Game of the Year award but are somehow still on a best-of list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Josephdk (talk • contribs) 06:21, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Please refer to the FAQ on the top of this page before you decide what the list's criteria "should" be. Cat's Tuxedo (talk) 07:09, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, this is what the current consensus has lead to. Awards currently do not factor in, but even if they did nothing would really change because games winning GOTY awards are usually ranked on best of all time lists anyway. However, I'm personally in favor of removing WhatCulture per your reasoning, but this list should be more than just be gaming publications, which helps outside-the-box opinions. If a publication is reliable and follows the other qualifications listed in the FAQ, then there is no real valid reason to remove them. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:53, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Publisher vs. Developer

For each game included in the list, the game's publisher is shown. Personally, I think the game's developer is far more important than the publisher. When discussing a book, people want to know the author, not necessarily who published it. I'm not sure what the standard is for an entry like this is though, if any. I just found it strange the developer wasn't listed. Zaqwert (talk) 13:18, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

In this, I disagree. I'd be honestly fine with including neither, but developer is often times too in-the-weeds for any but the most hardcore of audiences. Most gamers have no idea who HAL Laboratory is, but they know what Nintendo is. And the kind of person who "needs" this information - e.g. who genuinely doesn't know anything about Super Smash Bros. Melee - almost surely doesn't know internal Nintendo development teams, but they will know who Nintendo is. Sure, there are exceptions (FromSoft is pretty famous), but in general, Publisher is usually more useful IMO. SnowFire (talk) 16:58, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

This was my original reasoning when I removed the developer column a while ago too. Listing by publisher over developer gives the list more cohesion when sorting by them, not to mention they're the ones who (usually) own the IP. And I've also said this before, but if developers should return, they should only do so alongside publishers, not to replace them. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 17:50, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

JeuxVideo.com's 2017 list

As Jeuxvideo.com is a RS per WP:VG/S, and their Top 100 Best Games of All Time list meets all criteria for inclusion, I'm incorporating it. Here's the list:

Jeuxvideo2017

100. Lemmings 99. Colin McRae Rally 2.0 98. Unreal Tournament 97. Tetris 96. DOTA 95. Duke Nukem 3D 94. Dungeon Master 93. Ultima 6: The False Prophet 92. Ikaruga 91. FIFA: Road to World Cup 98 90. Thief: The Dark Project 89. Omikron: The Nomad Soul 88. Flashback 87. The Legend of Zelda 86. Populous 85. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 84. Another World 83. System Shock 2 82. Left 4 Dead 2 81. Quake III: Arena 80. F-Zero GX 79. Gran Turismo 2 78. Planescape: Torment 77. No One Lives Forever 2: A Spy in H.A.R.M.'s Way 76. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge 75. Forza Horizon 3 74. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 73. Civilization 2 72. Pro Evolution Soccer 6 71. Bloodborne 70. Battlefield 2 69. Beyond Good and Evil 68. Super Mario Bros. 3 67. Mega Man 2 66. Myst 65. Okami 64. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn 63. Grim Fandango 62. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 61. Super Smash Bros. Melee 60. Max Payne 59. Soul Calibur 2 58. Hitman: Blood Money 57. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 56. Assassin's Creed 2 55. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 54. Secret of Mana 53. Tomb Raider 2 52. Pokémon Gold and Silver 51. Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 50. The Last of Us 49. Doom (1993) 48. Dead Space 47. Dishonored 46. Shenmue 45. Donkey Kong Country 44. Halo: Combat Evolved 43. StarCraft 42. Dark Souls 41. Batman: Arkham City 40. Portal 2 39. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 38. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas 37. Age of Empires 2: The Age of Kings 36. God of War 2 35. Resident Evil (1996) 34. Shadow of the Colossus 33. BioShock 32. Counter-Strike 31. WarCraft 3: Reign of Chaos 30. Minecraft 29. Metal Gear Solid 28. Metroid Prime 27. God of War 3 26. Super Mario Kart 25. Silent Hill 2 24. Super Metroid 23. The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim 22. Super Mario Bros. 21. Resident Evil 4 20. Mass Effect 2 19. Fallout 2 18. Diablo 2 17. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 16. The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind 15. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 14. Red Dead Redemption 13. Goldeneye 12. Chrono Trigger 11. Uncharted 4: A Thief's End 10. Grand Theft Auto 5 9. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 8. Street Fighter 2 7. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild 6. Deus Ex 5. Super Mario 64 4. World of Warcraft 3. Final Fantasy 7 2. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt 1. Half-Life

There were be several additions to the main list once this is incorporated, namely Ikaruga, Another World, Duke Nukem 3D, Unreal Tournament, Hitman: Blood Money, Left 4 Dead 2, Quake III: Arena, Fallout 2, and Soulcalibur II.

Will get working on updating the main list shortly. Phediuk (talk) 17:46, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Done. Phediuk (talk) 19:28, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Nice work TarkusAB^talk 18:45, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Flux's 1995 list

Managed to scrounge up a Top 100 list from the April '95 issue of Flux. Pretty sure it's a reliable source even though I didn't see it anywhere in WP:VG/S, probably because of how short-lived and obscure the publication was. Unfortunately, I wouldn't know what new additions this list would qualify, so whoever's keeping track of that will have to sort it out. Cat's Tuxedo (talk) 08:01, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Flux

100. Ecco the Dolphin (Sega CD) 99. Marble Madness (Arcade) 98. Crossbow (Arcade) 97. Turmoil (Atari 2600) 96. Star Blade (Arcade) 95. Crystal Castles (Arcade) 94. Qix (Arcade) 93. Super Breakout (Atari 5200) 92. Impossible Mission (Commodore 64) 91. Karate Champ (Arcade) 90. Yars' Revenge (Atari 2600) 89. Gauntlet (Arcade) 88. Xevious (Arcade) 87. River Raid (Atari 2600) 86. Moon Patrol (Arcade) 85. Kaboom! (Atari 2600) 84. Wizard of Wor (Arcade) 83. Star Castle (Arcade) 82. Jungle Hunt (Arcade) 81. Tomcat Alley (Sega CD) 80. Samurai Shodown (Arcade) 79. 720° (Arcade) 78. Warlords (Atari 2600) 77. Escape from the Mindmaster (Atari 2600) 76. Lunar (Sega CD) 75. NCAA Basketball (SNES) 74. Terminator 2: Judgement Day (Arcade) 73. Another World (Genesis, 3DO) 72. Sinistar (Arcade) 71. Swordquest: Earthworld (Atari 2600) 70. Golden Axe (Genesis) 69. Phoenix (Arcade) 68. Haunted House (Atari 2600) 67. Mr. Do (Arcade) 66. Super Mario Bros. (NES) 65. Track & Field (Arcade) 64. Space Dungeon (Atari 5200) 63. Cruis'n USA (Arcade) 62. Super Metroid (SNES) 61. Star Wars (Arcade) 60. Alien vs. Predator (Jaguar) 59. Night Driver (Arcade) 58. Indy 500 (Arcade) 57. Galaga (Arcade) 56. Pong (Arcade) 55. Berzerk (Arcade) 54. Suzuka 8 Hours (Arcade) 53. FIFA International Soccer (3DO) 52. Robotron 2084 (Arcade) 51. Zaxxon (Arcade) 50. Madden NFL '95 (Genesis) 49. Tron (Arcade) 48. Combat (Atari 2600) 47. Dragon's Lair (Arcade) 46. Star Raiders (Atari 400) 45. Killer Instinct (Arcade) 44. Wolfenstein 3D (PC) 43. Lethal Enforcers (Arcade) 42. Prince of Persia (Apple II, PC) 41. Donkey Kong (Arcade) 40. Secret of Mana (SNES) 39. Duke Nukem (PC) 38. Jungle Strike (Genesis) 37. Major League Baseball (Intellivision) 36. Virtua Racing (Arcade) 35. Adventure (Atari 2600) 34. Defender (Arcade) 33. Pitfall! (Atari 2600) 32. Pole Position (Arcade) 31. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (Intellivision) 30. Tetris (Arcade) 29. Spy Hunter (Arcade) 28. Final Fantasy VI (SNES) 27. Thunderhawk (Sega CD) 26. Joust (Arcade) 25. Super Star Wars (SNES) 24. Missile Command (Arcade) 23. The 7th Guest (PC) 22. Road Rash (3DO) 21. Punch-Out!! (Arcade) 20. Wing Commander (PC) 19. NBA Jam (Arcade) 18. Comanche (PC) 17. Donkey Kong Country (SNES) 16. Virtua Fighter (Arcade) 15. Centipede (Arcade) 14. Myst (PC) 13. Disney's Aladdin (Genesis) 12. Street Fighter II (Arcade) 11. Asteroids (Arcade) 10. Flashback (Genesis, SNES) 9. Pac-Man (Arcade) 8. NHL '95 (Genesis) 7. Earthworm Jim (SNES, Genesis) 6. Tempest (Arcade) 5. Mortal Kombat (Arcade) 4. Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis) 3. Doom (PC) 2. The Legend of Zelda (NES) 1. Space Invaders (Arcade)

Nice work; I'll have to take a closer look, but from a glance I believe Tempest, Star Wars Arcade, Centipede, Adventure, and Missile Command will be going on the list. Phediuk (talk) 13:02, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

I feel like we shouldn't add this before WP:VG/RS takes a look. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 17:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Looks like a strong case for RS considering it had at least one GamePro writer on staff and Harris Publications appears to be reputable. They also have a whole spate of citations on WP already. Phediuk (talk) 18:03, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Right, I'm just being cautious here. As we have over 30 now, we might wanna go back and take a look at other sources, like WhatCulture, and see if they fit the bill too. They apparently let you write for them, making the site seem more like a curated blog than something with editorial values. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:07, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

The WhatCulture list wasn't written by a freelancer or blogger though; Scott Tailford is their staff Gaming Editor. Phediuk (talk) 18:17, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Is an article by reliable editor on a seemingly unreliable website enough to keep it? That's my only question. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

JeuxVideo.com's 2011 list

Looks like they did a top 100 in 2011, too. Fulfills all criteria, so I'm incorporating it. The new entries to the main list will be Fallout and Valkyria Chronicles.

Jeuxvideo2011

100. Black Crypt 99. Battlezone (1998) 98. Secret Command (Rambo for the Master System) 97. The Beast Within: A Gabriel Knight Mystery 96. Dune 2 95. Trackmania 94. Sam & Max Hit the Road 93. Dragon Age: Origins 92. Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty 91. Sonic the Hedgehog 90. Vagrant Story 89. Super Mario Bros. 88. Ghosts 'n Goblins 87. Shining Force III 86. Double Dragon 2: The Revenge 85. Demon's Souls 84. Red Dead Redemption 83. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 82. Final Fantasy IV 81. Valkyrie Profile 80. Little Big Adventure 79. Valkyria Chronicles 78. Goldeneye 77. Final Fantasy Tactics 76. Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell 75. Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II 74. Pokemon HeartGold and SoulSilver 73. Grim Fandango 72. Secret of Mana 71. Gran Turismo 4 70. Sonic & Knuckles 69. Dragon Quest VIII 68. Okami 67. Syndicate (1993) 66. Portal 65. Tremulous 64. Chrono Trigger 63. Riven 62. Panzer Dragoon Saga 61. Super Mario Bros. 3 60. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 59. L'Entraineur 3 58. Tomb Raider (1996) 57. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 56. God of War 2 55. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge 54. Myst 53. Final Fantasy VI 52. Sanitarium 51. Pro Evolution Soccer 6 50. Gabriel Knight 3 49. Unreal Tournament 48. Shenmue 47. The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion 46. Shenmue 2 45. The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind 44. Dead Space 2 43. Arx Fatalis 42. Minecraft 41. Civilization 40. Diablo 39. FIFA 98: Road to World Cup 38. Baldur's Gate 37. Super Mario World 36. Half-Life 35. The Legend of Zelda 34. Resident Evil 4 33. The Longest Journey 32. Beyond Good and Evil 31. Cadaver 30. Monster Hunter Freedom Unite 29. Ico 28. Silent Hill 2 27. Super Mario Kart 26. Starcraft 25. Tetris 24. Shadow of the Colossus 23. The Secret of Monkey Island 22. Doom 21. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 20. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening 19. Day of the Tentacle 18. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 17. Grand Theft Auto 4 16. Sid Meier's Pirates! (1987) 15. Thief II: The Metal Age 14. Super Metroid 13. The Witcher 12. Fallout 11. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 10. Duke Nukem 3D 9. World of Warcraft 8. Final Fantasy VII 7. Hitman 2: Silent Assassin 6. Mass Effect 5. Batman: Arkham Asylum 4. Deus Ex 3. Donkey Kong Country 2. Another World 1. Super Mario 64

Will add to the main page shortly. Phediuk (talk) 07:29, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Since the main list was getting to be over 200 games, I raised the source threshold from five to six and pruned accordingly. The main list is now back down to 157 games, which gives us plenty of room to expand when new lists arrive. Phediuk (talk) 08:33, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree with raising the bar as new lists get added, otherwise the list will become bloated. I do worry about recency bias becoming an issue as time progresses though. Just need to make sure there are enough lists included do a good job pulling in games from the past and judging them according to their merits for the era they came out in.Zaqwert (talk) 18:06, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

@Zaqwert: I've noticed you adding/removing "cited as one of the best games of all time" to articles for games on this list. Just because a game was added/removed from this list does not determine if that phrase or link should be added/removed from the game's article. As long as you put the appropriate sources supporting the fact in the game's article, that wording and link can be retained. TarkusAB^talk 18:12, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Makes sense. I'll only remove it if it's an unreferenced statement with only its presence on the list being the reason it's in the article.

Power Unlimited's 2018 list

Power Unlimited did a "Top 100 Best Games of All Time" list last year. Since they're a RS per WP:VG/S, and the list fulfills all criteria, I'm going to incorporate this one too. While the list is editor-chosen, I should note that the preamble mentions a reader poll, and that the editors will add the most popular games onto the list. As far as I can tell the list was never actually altered or updated at all. The oldest archive still shows exactly the same list. So I'm assuming this is the editors' list and that the reader list is either on a different page or simply wasn't made.

Addendum: the page mentions a 2015 list that they previously did. I can confirm after doing some diving on Dutch forums that the 2015 list is identical to the one at the page linked. Phediuk (talk) 19:08, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Power Unlimited

100. Red Dead Redemption 99. Micro Machines 98. Homeworld 97. Resident Evil Code: Veronica 96. Dragon Age: Inquisition 95. Wing Commander 4: The Price of Freedom 94. King's Quest 2: Romancing the Throne 93. Earthbound 92. Thief II: The Metal Age 91. Little Big Adventure 2 90. Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis 89. pace Quest 4: Roger Wilco and the Rippers 88. Kirby's Adventure 87. Star Wars: Battlefront (2004) 86. Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening 85. Mafia 84. Tekken 3 83. Shenmue 82. Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory 81. Diablo II 80. Killer Instinct (1994) 79. Baldur's Gate 78. Hitman: Blood Money 77. Theme Hospital 76. Mega Man X 75. Simcity 4 74. Gran Turismo 73. Mortal Kombat II 72. FIFA '98: Road to World Cup 71. Ninja Gaiden (NES) 70. Star Fox 69. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 68. Halo 2 67. Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood 66. Beyond Good and Evil 65. Day of the Tentacle 64. Rez 63. Persona 4 62. Rome: Total War 61. Limbo 60. Burnout Paradise 59. The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind 58. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 57. Spelunky 56. X-COM: UFO Defense 55. Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest 54. Banjo-Kazooie 53. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door 52. Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory 51. Far Cry 2 50. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 49. Kingdom Hearts 48. Batman: Arkham City 47. Chrono Trigger 46. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U 45. Civilization 5 44. Pokemon Gold and Silver 43. Fallout 3 42. Counter-Strike 41. Space Invaders 40. Deus Ex 39. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 38. Max Payne 37. Metroid Prime 36. Ico 35. Grand Theft Auto (1997) 34. Final Fantasy VII 33. Resident Evil 4 32. Half-Life 31. The Sims 2 30. Doom (1993) 29. The Curse of Monkey Island 28. Duke Nukem 3D 27. God of War (2005) 26. Unreal Tournament 2004 25. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 24. Dark Souls 23. Mass Effect 2 22. Bioshock 21. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 20. Super Metroid 19. Metal Gear Solid 18. Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines 17. Street Fighter 2 16. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 15. Command & Conquer: Red Alert 14. World of Warcraft 13. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 12. Super Mario World 11. Goldeneye 10. Super Mario Kart 9. Rollercoaster Tycoon 8. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 7. Portal 6. Super Mario Galaxy 5. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 4. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas 3. Tetris 2. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 1. The Last of Us

New additions to the main list as a result of this list's incorporation will be Pokemon Gold and Silver, Mega Man X, Beyond Good & Evil, Rome: Total War, Thief II: The Metal Age, Halo 2, and The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. Phediuk (talk) 23:00, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Done. Phediuk (talk) 00:37, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

GQ's 2018 list

The Spanish edition of GQ published a Top 100 list in 2018. GQ is a RS for pop-culture topics (along the lines of FHM, Entertainment Weekly, etc.), and a quick search turns up many citations in gaming-related WP articles, so it should be fine on that front. Furthermore, the list's principal author, John Tones, was also a staff member for Spanish version of GamesTM. Looks like this list passes muster, so I'm going to incorporate it.

GQ

100. Barbarian 99. Bloodborne 98. NBA 2K13 97. Firewatch 96. Superbrothers: Sword & Sorcery 95. Counter-Strike: Source 94. Overwatch 93. Metroid Prime 92. The Witness 91. Horizon Zero Dawn 90. Rez 89. Grim Fandango 88. Pitfall 87. Cuphead 86. Super Mario Kart 85. Ikaruga 84. Final Fantasy VII 83. Spider-Man (2018) 82. Simcity 2000 81. Shenmue 80. Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader 79. Tomb Raider (1996) 78. Skate 77. Minecraft 76. Left 4 Dead 2 75. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2 74. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 73. Civilization IV 72. Gears of War 2 71. Sonic the Hedgehog 70. Okami 69. Advance Wars 68. Team Fortress 2 67. Super Meat Boy 66. Diablo 2 65. Mega Man 2 64. Braid 63. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 62. Journey 61. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 60. Dark Souls 59. Batman: Arkham City 58. Super Mario Galaxy 2 57. Mass Effect 2 56. World of Warcraft 55. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 54. Shadow of the Colossus 53. Super Metroid 52. Shadow of the Beast (1989) 51. Borderlands 2 50. Just Cause 2 49. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt 48. Rock Band 47. Black 46. Castle of Illusion (1990) 45. Panzer Dragoon 44. Destiny 43. La abadía del crimen 42. Metal Slug 41. Psychonauts 40. Lemmings 39. Arkanoid: Revenge of Doh 38. The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim 37. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 36. Contra 3: The Alien Wars 35. Gradius 5 34. Chrono Trigger 33. Max Payne 3 32. Quake 31. Mortal Kombat (1992) 30. Outrun 29. Deus Ex 28. Popeye 27. Wipeout HD 26. Bayonetta 25. Bioshock Infinite 24. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 23. Halo 22. Final Fight 21. Dishonored 20. X-COM: UFO Defense 19. Fallout 2 18. Ghosts 'n Goblins 17. Manhunt 16. Burnout Paradise 15. Street Fighter 2 14. R-Type 13. Super Hexagon 12. Donkey Kong 11. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 10. Tetris 9. God Hand 8. The Secret of Monkey Island 7. Red Dead Redemption 6. Resident Evil 4 5. Half-Life 2 4. Silent Hill 2 3. Super Mario World 2. Pac-Man 1. Portal 2

Once this list is incorporated, R-Type, Fallout 2, Mortal Kombat, Super Meat Boy, Left 4 Dead 2, Ikaruga, and Overwatch will all return to the main list. Phediuk (talk) 20:54, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Thumbs up. Ya got gumption, kid. Glad to see. :) --Bchill53 (talk) 21:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Games Missing Very Suddenly

I've noticed that many games that were included on this list as early as last night are no longer included. While I do not have a complete list, some of these games include Ninja Gaiden, Banjo-Kazooie, Pokemon Gold and Silver, Rock Band 3, and Fire Emblem Awakening. Was there an adjustment made to the criteria or a list?

Check ^^ two sections up on the talk page. An editor took the initiative to up the criteria from 5 "Best of" lists to 6. --Bchill53 (talk) 21:15, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

I'll add on to Bchill and say this: While one editor made a bold initiative and adjusted the list, it can always be reverted and discussed. The article is not owned by any one editor. Modifying the inclusion criteria is an on-going discussion and all editors, even you, are welcome to participate to find a compromise. TarkusAB^talk 21:25, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

The Irish Times' 2013 list

After another lengthy search, I found one more list. The Irish Times covers video games, and did a Top 50 list back in 2013. The paper itself is obviously RS, cited extensively on WP; furthermore, the authors who wrote the article, Joe Griffin and Ciara O'Brien, are also real journalists; Griffin was one of their regular video game writers for 10 years (2005-15), and O'Brien has been a staff tech writer for them since 2007. Everything checks out, then, so I'm adding the list to the main page.

IrishTimes

50. Tomb Raider (2013) 49. North and South 48. Minecraft 47. Heavy Rain 46. Civilization 45. Quake 44. Bioshock Infinite 43. Limbo 42. Resistance 2 41. Journey 40. Gravity Rush 39. The Secret of Monkey Island 38. Tekken 3 37. Strider (1989) 36. Dance Central 2 35. Last Ninja 2 34. LittleBigPlanet 2 33. Rock Band 32. Bulletstorm 31. Plants vs. Zombies 30. Dishonored 29. Battlefield 3 28. The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim 27. Angry Birds 26. Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood 25. Zuma 24. Gears of War 2 23. Driver: San Francisco 22. Peggle 21. Mirror's Edge 20. Deus Ex: Human Revolution 19. Borderlands 2 18. Street Fighter IV 17. Soul Calibur 4 16. Space Invaders 15. FIFA 12 14. Pac-Man 13. Resident Evil (1996) 12. Super Mario Kart 11. The Last of Us 10. Half-Life 2 9. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 8. Metal Gear Solid 7. Super Mario Bros. 6. Red Dead Redemption 5. Mass Effect 2 4. Portal 2 3. Tetris 2. Halo 3 1. Grand Theft Auto III

Amazingly, no games to be added. Phediuk (talk) 06:36, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Done. Phediuk (talk) 07:00, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria: Number of sources

This came up before, but I guess I'm not one of the people worried about list bloat too much. If the list is long, so be it, I'd be happy with keeping it at 5 sources flat. That said, while it opens up accusations of arbitrariness, if we do increase the threshold, can we at least have a separate criteria for recent games, and possibly very old games as well? Sourcing is inherently harder to find for a 2015 game compared to a 2004 game with the nature of the list. If we say "only" 5 sources for games released in 2010 or after, and possibly 1990 or before as well, and enforce 6 sources on the middle-year games from 1991-2009, that leads to less warping of the results simply by which lists are picked to be used at all. SnowFire (talk) 20:21, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

This is a good point, and I was going to say something similar. I totally get why increasing the threshold is appealing. As the list grows larger, we can increase the threshold and limit the list to truly only the best of the best. However, if five separate sources all list a game among their list of best ever, is that not good enough reason to acknowledge it here? We need to agree on a number (or another method) that represents when a game has achieved consensus for being one of the best ever and keep it to that. The list getting longer is not a reason to increase our threshold. TarkusAB^talk 20:32, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

I'd been thinking about calculating a number, but the vast and tedious amount of compiling it'd take has been making me shy about carrying it out. My plan was to add up all the times that each and every game that had been on these lists have been included (28 (Super Mario 64) + 27 (Tetris) + ... (4 games * 7 listings) + (12 games * 6 listings), etc etc) and divide that result by the total number of games there are, and the number that comes out would be the average. Course, the sheer amount of games that've only been in one or two lists would make the compiling process pretty cumbersome to keep track of, so I'm worried that the whole ordeal wouldn't be worth it if the final number does wind up being rather low (which I doubt, really, but still). Cat's Tuxedo (talk) 21:27, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Yea I would not do that. One reason being I don't know if that methodology is a sound reason to arrive at the number, and second, it's more tedious than you might think. Some lists use different names to refer to the same game (WarCraft II: Tides of Darkness vs. Warcraft 2), some lists include a whole series as one entry (i.e. Guitar Hero), and some lists use the same name to refer to different games (Arcade Punch Out vs. NES Punch Out). TarkusAB^talk 21:35, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

I absolutely agree on the tedium part, but personally I would think that the average number of times a game has been listed would be a perfectly reasonable metric to operate on, if only the means of discerning that number were more practical. However, I suspect Phediuk must have some sort of extensive compilation at hand already, because how else could he be figuring out what new entries get added in such a short time? Cat's Tuxedo (talk) 21:50, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

The compilation is right above you; scroll up a bit. :) Phediuk (talk) 21:52, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Are you just doing CtrlF and searching each name you get a new list? TarkusAB^talk 21:54, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Yep; "such a short time" definitely isn't how I'd put it. Adding a list is considerable work--you have to find it first, then check its reliability, then transcribe the thing, then add the refs into the article, then cross-check absolutely everything to make sure there are no mistakes (and this MUST be done manually; even auto-generated lists are prone to error here), then add the new games that need to be added, then make sure every single bit of formatting is correct. I'm not complaining here, I enjoy the challenge and the satisfaction of the hard work, but it's not a trivial task. Phediuk (talk) 22:00, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Huh, well I can see how that CtrlF thing can hasten the process. Course, creating the particular compilation I proposed would still be tiresome regardless. Cat's Tuxedo (talk) 22:25, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

I had a Google spreadsheet I shared here before but I abandoned it. It was really fancy, would automatically remove the number leads from Phediuk's lists and could run pivot tables to see how many times a game was mentioned. That would really the best way to do it. Tedious to set up but once it's working, it would be easier to maintain and more visibility. TarkusAB^talk 22:34, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

In theory it speeds up everything, but you end up checking everything manually anyway, so not really. Trust me. Phediuk (talk) 22:39, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm happy to be bold and make the revisions myself, but it'll only matter if the change is maintained and agreed on. @Phediuk:, since you've been doing so much of the recent maintenance, and also upped the threshold to 6 - what are your thoughts? Would you be up for either going back to just 5 sources and having a somewhat long list, or else having some sort of custom rule by release date, or are you firmly in favor of 6 everywhere? SnowFire (talk) 22:05, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Raising the threshold is mostly a concern of length, i.e., in the past there have been concerns about the list being unwieldy. I have no intention of increasing the threshold beyond 6; we're currently at 165 games and have plenty of room to expand. Returning to a threshold of 5 is fine if there is consensus for it, though I would prefer 6 as that gives us some more breathing room against the inevitable future criticism of the list being too long; also, I would prefer to expand the list by finding new lists, not by reducing the source threshold. I am definitely opposed to assigning different thresholds to different games, though. Phediuk (talk) 22:15, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Another way to think about this is that there are currently 25 different publications in the main list, meaning any game that appears on the main list is cited by at least 24% of all publications as one of the best games ever. This is, in fact, almost exactly the same ratio we had a week ago, when there were 21 publications and the threshold was 5 (23.8%). Proportionally, there has been virtually no change; my increase of the threshold from 5 to 6 has maintained the status quo in that respect. Phediuk (talk) 22:19, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, just it's a bit of a misleading equality. The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and steal bread, etc. It's flat impossible for future games to be on a list compiled before it came out, so if we're talking percentages, the real threshold is essentially higher for recent games - they can only possibly even show up on half the lists, so they require to place on 50% of the remaining modern lists rather than the 25% for a 2000 game. To a lesser extent, very recent critic lists are less likely to be compiled by people familiar with old 1980s games, etc. (although this doesn't stop Citizen Kane and Vertigo from getting hype over in the movie world, so eh). Now, per Cat's Tuxedo, actually attempting to math things out potentially leads down the path of madness, and having a somewhat stricter requirement on very recent games is fine and harmless, but the current status quo is that it's a lot stricter. Checking the distribution by decade... under the 5 source requirement, it was 4/28/73/70/24; under 6 sources, it was 4/21/59/61/20 ( 70s / 80s / 90s / 2000s / 10s), and a lot of those 2010- games are in 2010 itself. The distribution is a lot less lopsided if we mix the 5 source figures for 70s/80s/10s and the 6-source figures otherwise (4/28/59/61/24), and even then it still shows a clear bulge from 1990-2009.

Agreed, I think trying to develop a math based method would be a rabbit hole that no one would ever be able to climb out of. And setting a precedent for changing the required number of sources based on

((x number of sources)/(total number of sources))*100 ≈ established % limit starts to teeter on the edge of a math based method. I also agree with the thinking that this method makes it significantly harder for any new games to be included on the list. The total number of sources will increase overtime which would increase the required number of sources per game. This means it would take new games longer to achieve enough references for inclusion (if they ever would. Future lists should still be citing many of the older games leaving less room for new ones to potentially be included).Durchschnitt (talk) 14:43, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

As far as criticism that the list is too long, eh, let's not try to anticipate pre-emptively criticisms that might not even exist. There was the one editor who was complaining about this list being too long, but I believe he or she also wanted a more fundamental refocus of the list as well to solely #1 games, with the desired shortness being more of a side effect of that. SnowFire (talk) 23:41, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Agreed, I don't think that list length should be a main consideration when establishing the requirements for including a game on the list. Doing so would effectively make this a top 150 list (or whatever length becomes the target). As the articles stands now, it is meant to be a compilation of games that are "the best" based on an aggregate of lists. An artificial limit of how many games can appear on this list shouldn't be imposed (unless we want to try to turn this into a top # list, which then creates another never ending rabbit hole of figuring out how to taking the rankings of each list into consideration, which I don't believe we want to do).Durchschnitt (talk) 14:43, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Stuff's 2008 list

Another list uncovered! We already have Stuff's 2017 list, but their print edition also did a list back in 2008, which can be observed here. As with the 2017 list, it's staff-chosen and covers all platforms, so it looks ripe for inclusion here. I've transcribed it below:

Stuff2008

100. Jet Set Radio 99. Mercenary 98. Final Fantasy III (1990) 97. Dungeon Master 96. Treasure of Usas 95. Skies of Arcadia 94. Red Baron 3D 93. PGA Tour Golf 92. Sid Meier's Pirates (1987) 91. Tomb Raider (1996) 90. Rome: Total War 89. Virtua Fighter 2 88. Rainbow Islands 87. California Games 86. Ant Attack 85. Micro Machines 84. Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee 83. Skate 82. Ico 81. Timesplitters 2 80. Alone in the Dark (1992) 79. Virtua Cop 78. Spy vs. Spy 77. Stunt Car Racer 76. Pong 75. Flashback 74. Kick Off 2 73. Head Over Heels 72. Metal Slug 71. Mass Effect 70. Phantasy Star II 69. Castlevania 68. Crazy Taxi 67. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 66. Pac-Man 65. Simcity (1989) 64. Underwurlde 63. Road Rash 2 62. NBA Jam 61. The Sims 60. Mechwarrior 2 59. Football Manager 2 58. Star Fox 57. Super Metroid 56. Outrun 55. Super Mario Bros. 3 54. Resident Evil 4 53. Diablo 52. Xenon 2 Megablast 51. Defender of the Crown 50. Command & Conquer 49. Chase HQ 48. Jet Set Willy 47. World of Warcraft 46. Shenmue 45. Deus Ex 44. Star Wars: X-Wing 43. Patapon 42. Motorstorm 41. Bubble Bobble 40. R-Type 39. Monkey Island II: LeChuck's Revenge 38. Bioshock 37. Worms 36. Civilization 35. Virtua Tennis 34. Wipeout 33. God of War (2005) 32. Streets of Rage 2 31. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 30. Sega Rally Championship 29. Okami 28. Wii Sports 27. Street Fighter 2 26. Tetris 25. Singstar 24. Lemmings 23. Super Mario Galaxy 22. Pro Evolution Soccer 4 21. Animal Crossing: Wild World 20. Mega Bomberman 19. Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe 18. Super Mario 64 17. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 16. Quake III: Arena 15. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec 14. Halo 13. Guitar Hero 12. Sensible World of Soccer 11. Super Mario Kart 10. Turrican 2 9. Grand Theft Auto III 8. Doom (1993) 7. Sonic the Hedgehog 6. Elite 5. Super Mario World 4. Goldeneye 3. Final Fantasy VII 2. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 1. Half-Life 2

Will figure out what's to be added to the main list shortly. Phediuk (talk) 14:21, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Games to be added to the main list are SimCity, Jet Set Radio, Out Run, Civilization, Quake III Arena, and Rome: Total War. Phediuk (talk) 14:51, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

GamesRadar lists for 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015

The GamesRadar list currently listed is actually its list for 2015, not 2013; the site actually did a top 100 annually for 5 years in a row, and they can be found at these links:

2011 - 2012 - 2013 - 2014 - 2015

Will get to work on transcribing all of them. Phediuk (talk) 18:17, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

GamesRadar2011

1. Portal 2. Tetris 3. Chrono Trigger 4. Grand Theft Auto IV 5. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 6. Super Mario Bros. 3 7. Shadow of the Colossus 8. Half-Life 2 9. Super Metroid 10. Mass Effect 2 11. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 12. Bioshock 13. Street Fighter IV 14. Final Fantasy VI 15. Red Dead Redemption 16. Super Mario Galaxy 17. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 18. Resident Evil 4 19. StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty 20. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 21. Metal Gear Solid 22. Batman: Arkham Asylum 23. World of Warcraft 24. Civilization IV 25. Deus Ex 26. Pokemon Black and White 27. Super Mario 64 28. The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion 29. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess 30. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas 31. Ico 32. Ms. Pac-Man 33. Half-Life 34. Left 4 Dead 2 35. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 36. Silent Hill 2 37. Mega Man 2 38. Diablo II 39. The Sims 3 40. Okami 41. Halo 3 42. Gears of War 2 43. Rock Band 2 44. God of War (2005) 45. Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos 46. Super Mario Kart 47. Assassin’s Creed 2 48. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2 49. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 50. Grim Fandango 51. Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 3 52. SimCity 3000 53. Final Fantasy Tactics 54. Katamari Damacy 55. Doom 2 56. Counter-Strike 57. Burnout 3: Takedown 58. Fallout 2 59. Advance Wars 60. Final Fantasy X 61. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 62. Soul Calibur 63. Bejeweled 3 64. Day of the Tentacle 65. Sega Rally Championship 66. Braid 67. Sonic CD 68. Psychonauts 69. Secret of Mana 70. Beyond Good and Evil 71. Team Fortress 2 72. Super Smash Bros. Melee 73. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec 74. Yoshi’s Island 75. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 76. Donkey Kong Country 77. Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King 78. Super Punch-Out!! 79. Kingdom Hearts 80. Tomb Raider (1996) 81. F-Zero GX 82. Contra III: The Alien Wars 83. King’s Quest VI: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow 84. Rez 85. Donkey Kong (Game Boy, 1994) 86. Magic Land Dizzy 87. Tetris Attack 88. Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee 2 89. Planetside 90. Earthbound 91. Quake III: Arena 92. Cobra Triangle 93. Shenmue 94. WWF: No Mercy 95. Bubble Bobble 96. Killer 7 97. Blazing Lazers 98. Lumines 99. Ducktales (NES) 100. Minecraft

Based on the 2011 list, StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, Psychonauts, Beyond Good & Evil, Bubble Bobble, and Katamari Damacy will go on the main list. Phediuk (talk) 18:42, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

2011 list incorporated. Phediuk (talk) 20:07, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

GamesRadar2012

1. Portal 2. Tetris 3. Chrono Trigger 4. Super Mario Bros. 3 5. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 6. Grand Theft Auto IV 7. Shadow of the Colossus 8. Bioshock 9. Super Metroid 10. Mass Effect 2 11. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 12. Half-Life 2 13. Street Fighter IV 14. Final Fantasy VI 15. Red Dead Redemption 16. Super Mario Galaxy 2 17. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 18. Resident Evil 4 19. Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty 20. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 21. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 22. Portal 2 23. Batman: Arkham City 24. Final Fantasy X 25. World of Warcraft 26. Civilization V 27. Deus Ex 28. Pokemon Black and White 29. Super Mario 64 30. The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim 31. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess 32. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas 33. Ico 34. Ms. Pac-Man 35. Left 4 Dead 2 36. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 37. Silent Hill 2 38. Mega Man 2 39. Diablo II 40. The Sims 3 41. Okami 42. Halo 3 43. Rock Band 3 44. Gears of War 2 45. God of War 46. Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos 47. Mario Kart 7 48. EarthBound 49. Assassin’s Creed II 50. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2 51. Metal Gear Solid 52. Grim Fandango 53. Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 3 54. SimCity 2000 55. Final Fantasy Tactics 56. Katamari Damacy 57. Doom 2 58. Counter-Strike 59. Burnout Paradise 60. Fallout 2 61. Advance Wars 62. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 63. Soul Calibur II 64. Braid 65. Day of the Tentacle 66. Sega Rally Championship 67. Journey 68. Sonic CD 69. Psychonauts 70. Secret of Mana 71. Beyond Good and Evil 72. Team Fortress 2 73. Super Smash Bros. Melee 74. League of Legends 75. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec 76. Yoshi’s Island 77. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 78. Donkey Kong Country 79. Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King 80. Super Punch-Out!! 81. Kingdom Hearts II 82. Super Meat Boy 83. Tomb Raider (1996) 84. F-Zero GX 85. Contra III: The Alien Wars 86. The Secret of Monkey Island 87. Rez 88. Marvel vs. Capcom 3 89. Donkey Kong (Game Boy, 1994) 90. Tetris Attack 91. Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee 2 92. Quake III: Arena 93. Suikoden 2 94. Castle Crashers 95. WWF: No Mercy 96. Limbo 97. Ikaruga 98. Lumines 99. Ducktales (NES) 100. Minecraft

SoulCalibur II will be returning to the main list. Phediuk (talk) 18:55, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

2012 list incorporated. Phediuk (talk) 20:48, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

GamesRadar2013

1. Portal 2. Chrono Trigger 3. Super Metroid 4. Shadow of the Colossus 5. Legend of Zelda, The: The Wind Waker 6. BioShock 7. Super Mario Bros. 3 8. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 9. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 10. World of Warcraft 11. Mass Effect 2 12. Red Dead Redemption 13. Super Mario Galaxy 2 14. Batman: Arkham City 15. Half-Life 2 16. Team Fortress 2 17. Assassin’s Creed II 18. Metroid Prime 19. Persona 4 20. Dark Souls 21. Street Fighter IV 22. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 23. Tetris DS 24. The Walking Dead 25. Journey 26. Grand Theft Auto IV 27. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 28. Resident Evil 4 29. Final Fantasy VI 30. Counter-Strike 31. Mother 3 32. Super Smash Bros. Brawl 33. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 34. Rock Band 3 35. Braid 36. Halo 4 37. Mega Man 2 38. Diablo II 39. Pokemon Black and White 40. Dragon Age: Origins 41. Civilization V 42. Burnout Paradise 43. The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings 44. Final Fantasy X 45. Yoshi’s Island 46. Super Meat Boy 47. Advance Wars 48. Mario Kart 7 49. Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King 50. Final Fantasy Tactics 51. XCOM: Enemy Unknown 52. The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim 53. Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos 54. The Secret of Monkey Island 55. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 56. Okami 57. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 58. Gears of War 2 59. Marvel vs. Capcom 3 60. Psychonauts 61. Dead Space 2 62. Deus Ex: Human Revolution 63. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 64. Planescape: Torment 65. Saints Row: The Third 66. Unreal Tournament 2004 67. Star Fox 64 68. Fallout 2 69. League of Legends 70. Cave Story 71. Forza Motorsport 4 72. StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty 73. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2 74. Donkey Kong (Game Boy, 1994) 75. Grim Fandango 76. Battlefield: Bad Company 2 77. Bayonetta 78. Bomberman Live 79. To the Moon 80. Shadowrun (SNES) 81. Paper Mario 82. Virtua Fighter 5 83. Secret of Mana 84. Grid 85. Silent Hill 2 86. Worms Armageddon 87. Left 4 Dead 2 88. Minecraft 89. The Sims 3 90. Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 3 91. Infinity Blade 2 92. Planet Puzzle League 93. Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader 94. Pac-Man Championship Edition 95. Limbo 96. Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast 97. Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne 98. Lumines 99. Sega Rally Championship 100. NFL Blitz

No new games going on the main list. Phediuk (talk) 19:07, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

2013 list incorporated. Phediuk (talk) 23:15, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

GamesRadar2014

1. Portal 2. Chrono Trigger 3. Super Metroid 4. Shadow of the Colossus 5. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 6. Bioshock 7. Super Mario World 8. The Last of Us 9. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 10. World of Warcraft 11. Mass Effect 2 12. Red Dead Redemption 13. Super Mario Galaxy 2 14. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 15. Batman: Arkham City 16. Half-Life 2 17. Tomb Raider (2013) 18. Team Fortress 2 19. Metroid Prime 20. Persona 4 21. Dark Souls 22. League of Legends 23. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 24. Street Fighter IV 25. Tetris DS 26. The Walking Dead 27. Journey 28. Grand Theft Auto V 29. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 30. Resident Evil 4 31. Final Fantasy VI 32. Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag 33. Mother 3 34. Super Smash Bros. Brawl 35. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 36. Rock Band 3 37. Braid 38. Halo 4 39. Mega Man 2 40. Diablo II 41. Pokemon X and Y 42. Dragon Age: Origins 43. Civilization V 44. Burnout Paradise 45. XCOM: Enemy Unknown 46. The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings 47. Final Fantasy X 48. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island 49. Super Meat Boy 50. Advance Wars 51. Mario Kart 7 52. Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King 53. Final Fantasy Tactics 54. The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim 55. Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos 56. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive 57. Fire Emblem: Awakening 58. The Secret of Monkey Island 59. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 60. Okami 61. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 62. Gears of War 2 63. Marvel vs. Capcom 3 64. Psychonauts 65. Dead Space 2 66. Deus Ex: Human Revolution 67. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 68. Planescape: Torment 69. Saints Row: The Third 70. Unreal Tournament 2004 71. Star Fox 64 72. Fallout 2 73. Cave Story 74. Forza Motorsport 4 75. StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty 76. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2 77. Donkey Kong (Game Boy, 1994) 78. Battlefield 4 79. Grim Fandango 80. Far Cry 3 81. Bayonetta 82. Bomberman Live 83. To the Moon 84. Paper Mario 85. Virtua Fighter 5 86. Secret of Mana 87. Grid 88. Silent Hill 2 89. Worms Armageddon 90. Left 4 Dead 2 91. Minecraft 92. The Sims 3 93. Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 3 94. Planet Puzzle League 95. Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader 96. Pac-Man Championship Edition 97. Limbo 98. Lumines 99. Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast 100. Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne

No additional games to be added to the main list from this one either. Phediuk (talk) 19:15, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

2014 list is now incorporated. Phediuk (talk) 23:35, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

The sims on the list?

My question is why is the sims on this list? Do I really need to explain why it’s bad? I’ve done it a million times on other places. Sonicfan200530 (talk) 23:51, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

That's nice. You should go write a blog post about how The Sims is bad, not come here to discuss it though: WP:NOTBLOG. SnowFire (talk) 00:53, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

What I’m saying is that The Sims has more controversy’s than appearances on best game list. Sonicfan200530 (talk) 19:19, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

• Which doesn't matter. It fit into the inclusion criteria and therefore got added. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 05:12, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
  • OK I’ll check the sites and make sure they list reasons. I’m just irate that it got included. Sonicfan200530 (talk) 19:17, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Why Undertale doesn't belong on this page.

Okay, I've been removing Undertale from the page for god knows how long. And I thought I might list the main reason as to why I keep doing it.

First of all, practically all of the sources for Undertale haven't been viable enough for being on this page. Most of the sources I see are stuff like "Best Game of 2015", "Top 10 Indie Games you Need to play" etc. The problem with those is that they are either not helpful, doesn't talk about how Undertale is a game for the ages or are only for the year it was released in. Compare Undertale's sources to a game like Skyrim for example. That game won A LOT of Game of the Year awards and was highly rated in Top 10 Games of 2011 list and when you look at that game's sources, it's mostly stuff like Top 100 Games of All Time lists and a Metacritic page, which I'll get to later. Heck, compare it to something like Journey for example, that's an Indie Game as well and the sources for that don't have stuff like "Top 10 Indie Games" or "Best Games of 2012", it has the same sources as Skyrim, features in Best Games of All Time lists and stuff like that.

Next up is Steam's "Highest Rated Games" source. Honestly, that is a TERRIBLE source for one reason and one reason only, it is user-based. If you look at the top-rated games you can see that One Finger Death Punch a small little Indie Game that is somewhat stupid, yet awesome. Is not only above Undertale, but is at Rank TWO right behind Portal 2.

Finally, there's Metacritic. First of all, the Metacritic page isn't judging the Greatest games across all platforms, it talks about PC games ONLY. Also, on the Methodology section, you can see that it says that seventh generation games need to be in the Top 25 to be considered for the page. When I wrote this, Undertale is at 28th place on the best PC games and is in 159th place on the best games of all platforms. Not to mention, Metacritic has it's OWN section on the Other Criteria part, which considers the Top 20 games on their site, which Undertale ISN'T in.

Subtracting all of the sources that are "Best of 2015" lists (-2), the lists that consider only Indie Games (Journey didn't have them so why Undertale?) (-2) and Metacritc and Steam (-1 for both) that leaves Undertale with only 2 sources left, invalidating it's addition to this page and as such needs to be removed. I suggest people who want to put Undertale on this page read this before considering how they do it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.215.147.168 (talk • contribs)

Honestly, while I do think Undertale should be on there, it’s probably not until the 2019 lists, I’m already collecting lists on some games to include them on this list (Don’t worry, it’s all best games of all times, not best indie games or best games of 2015.). DogBrineLover101 (talk) 18:09, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Will God of War (2018) and Red Dead Redemption 2 be added in the near future?

Granted, God of War did won Game of the Year, and Red Dead Redemption 2 is highly praised. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RaveMaster409 (talk • contribs) 17:52, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

See the FAQ I just published at the top of this page. TarkusAB^talk 18:20, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Looks good. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 00:09, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Probably DogBrineLover101 (talk) 18:09, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2019

please add Red Dead Redemption 2 and Tony Hawks Pro Skater 3 on the list because they have high ratings on metacritic with 97 rating thabk you 27.99.80.121 (talk) 08:37, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Read the FAQ at the top of this page. TarkusAB^talk 09:11, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

They’re not going to at all, not anytime soon of course. DogBrineLover101 (talk) 13:36, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2019

also please add on the list Metal Gear Solid 4 Guns Of the Patriots and Metal Gear Solid V the phantom Pain on the list because they have high ratings on metacritic 94 and 93 respectively 27.99.80.121 (talk) 08:43, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Read the FAQ at the top of this page. TarkusAB^talk 09:12, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

For those unwilling or unable to read the FAQ, Metacritic scores are not a qualifying factor to be on this list. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 17:32, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Metacritic does not qualify, only Top 100 lists DogBrineLover101 (talk) 13:37, 24 May 2019 (UTC)