Talk:List of the busiest airports in Europe/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Link at foot

Why is there a link to Large Nordic Airports specifically at the foot of the page? Jddriessen (talk) 15:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

It is normal location for see also section. --Jklamo (talk) 21:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

2007 link

I cannot access source for 2007 statistic [1]. Can somebody fix the link ? thx --Jklamo (talk) 22:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Palma

Palma de Mallorca's airport is that high on the list? john k (talk) 03:26, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes. You should see the luggage delivery area. It looks like an airport of Heathrows size. Most travellers are hotel tourists, not business travellers, they have a lot of luggage, child carriages etc. -- BIL (talk) 07:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Wrong numbers?

Link to reference of 2006 numbers (World top 30 airports) doesn't work (it gives 2007 numbers). If you follow it you can still click your way to the 2006 numbers, but it seems they are slightly (London, Amsterdam) or very (Munich, Madrid) different from wp's numbers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikijens (talk • contribs) 18:42, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Oslo Airport missing

I cannot see Oslo Airport Gardermoen on the list. Should be around 20 million passengers per year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.202.219.127 (talk) 20:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Because an IP number preferred to replace airports with turkish airports, instead of adding turkish airports, in order not to confuse the rank numbers. --BIL (talk) 09:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Scope

OK, i see that the list is not a purely geographical list, Europe is defined as political & historical Europe... AYT is in the list, although it is in Asia Minor, but Asia Minor is politically and historically European. Anyway, thaden at least 3 more airports from Turkey should have made the list: Ankara Esenboga Airport, Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen Airport, Izmir Adnan Menderes Airport. Please check http://www.dhmi.gov.tr/dhmistatistik/istatistik.aspx for stats related to these airports. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.230.201.161 (talk) 20:32, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorting by country

We can't sort the list by country? Can anybody fix it please? 10x ;) --195.110.6.3 (talk) 14:42, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Data sources

  • http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=727520 [2] --195.110.6.3 (talk) 14:48, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Missing airports (by passengers in 2008)

... and list may be expanded; "100 busiest airports" + "other airports with more than 3 million passengers". --195.110.6.3 (talk) 15:44, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

- (answer1) I don´t think that the list should be expanded to ......"other airports with more than 3 million passengers".

Dear Friends

I visit wikipedia nearly everyday. Sometimes you make mistakes and when I try to fix them you send me message about that changes. I know I am not always 100 % right but there are some facts which you can't hide. For example check the routes of British Airways on wikipedia. What are the Turkish airports they fly to?? Let me answer Istanbul,Izmir and Antalya. They are all under European continent routes. But Izmir and Antalya do not appear as an airport in Europe which were appearing yesterday morning. But suddenly some clever people changed this information. I want to know why this happened?? If Turkey is taken as a European country then you have to give the informations of the busiest airports of Turkey in top 100 busiest airports of Europe. If not then do not publish Istanbul even. We are in negotiations with the EU and we signed customs union aggrement with the EU in year 1995. On tradewise we are taken as any European country but on wikipedia just Istanbul is European not rest of the Turkey. EU negotiates with Turkey not with Istanbul. I want you to correct this mistake asap and republish the recent informations. Otherwise I will correct after all the corrections. Look forward to seeing corrected informations and statistics.

Yours sincerely

Rifat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.234.153.225 (talk) 08:41, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I want to start by saying, that thre person who deleted the turkish airports from TOP 100 was not me. I have better things to do end deliting other people´s posts. We have the same problem with Russian airports. The airports fom the European part of Russia, Moscow, SKT Petersburg are figuring in top 100, but the Russian airports East from Ural Mountains will not figure in top 100 because east from Ural Mountains is not Europe. I guess that that´s why only Istanbul (IST) was accepted in TOP 100. It´s a Geographical isue not a pollitical issue. I don´t know what to say. I an 50% for and 50% against. But as I said before , I have better things to do end deliting posts here on Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dipsa (talk • contribs) 13:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Rifat, I am the 'clever' person that deleted the Anatolian Turkish airports. I'm sorry if I have offended you. My deletion was based purely on geography; there were no subtle or 'hidden' political insinuations in doing so. I'm no way trying to 'hide' or obscure any facts. In fact, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this(?) Random airlines categorising Turkey as belonging to Europe does not create precedent for us doing the same. Since the article refers to the busiest airports in the geographical entity called Europe, any Turkish Anatolian Airports should accordingly be deleted. Note that I did NOT delete Istanbul (IST). I don't make up the rules, I just follow them.

If you have any doubts as to the geographical extent of the European continent, please read this article [[3]]. This extract might also be of interest to you: "Turkey is a transcontinental Eurasian country. Asian Turkey (made up largely of Anatolia), which includes 97% of the country, is separated from European Turkey by the Bosphorus, the Sea of Marmara, and the Dardanelles (which together form a water link between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea). European Turkey (eastern Thrace or Rumelia in the Balkan peninsula) comprises 3% of the country." [[4]].

You mention that Turkey are in negotiations with the EU. Correct. So were Morocco in the late 1980's. But you wouldn't categorise Morocco as a European country for that reason alone, would you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sir Tanx (talk • contribs) 14:58, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Eurocontrol

--178.93.72.34 (talk) 12:59, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

European Civil Aviation Conference

--178.93.72.34 (talk) 13:04, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

International Civil Aviation Organization

--178.93.72.34 (talk) 12:34, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi 178.93.72.34

Thank you for the uncommented links. The links you've provided also lists Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan - would you consider these countries European? Turkey is PARTLY European in terms of geography, cf. the discussion above, which I encourage you to read. For this reason, Istanbul (IST) should indeed be included. But airports which are located in non-European territory should accordingly not appear from the list. Would you add Almaty to the list? I suggest we have third parties intervene if you still insist on including non-European airports.

Best Sir Tanx (talk) 17:06, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Inclusion of Turkish cities

The current criteria for the list says cities in countries on the Council of Europe. That includes all of Turkey. If you want to change that, you need to make the case for why we should change the criterion, not just remove cities in Asian Turkey from the list. Even beyond that, the removal was done sloppily, without renumbering. john k (talk) 23:17, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your input. First of all, I've put my case forward on several occasions in the discussion of this list. Please see above. The current criterion was introduced in November last year by an unregistered user. Before then, Turkish Anatolian airports were not included in this list. The general consensus used to be that the criterion of inclusion was geographically motivated. I suggest we use the original inclusion criterion, e.g. geography, as indicated by the very title of this article. The geography criterion is by far the most simple and manageable. For instance, if we apply the current criterion, we would potentially have to include Vladivostok close to the North Korean border. Also, Kazakhstan is eligible for membership since a fraction of its landmass is in Europe - should we add Kazakh airports when or if Kazakhstan becomes a member? In its original meaning, the term Europe refers to the continent of Europe, i.e. a geographical entity. Inclusion by this criterion would mute any disagreement over which airports should be included and which should not.

By your last remark, I hope you're not implying that, in your words, sloppy removal would make my point less relevant?

Let me know what you think, and please read the discussion thread. I'll leave your edit intact in the meantime.

Best, Sir Tanx (talk) 00:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Sir Tanx - I think your case is reasonable, but if you want it to stick, you need to fix the article - renumber and remove the mention of the Council of Europe from the intro. If you do that, I will not revert. I am a bit confused as to the source for this article. Another wikipedia article is mentioned, but that one only shows the top 30 in the world in various different years. john k (talk) 05:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply. I'll make sure to amend the article accordingly.
Sir Tanx (talk) 12:10, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Firstly, criteria must be "aviation based". As Kazakhstan is an UEFA member in football, it also member of ICAO Europe. Is Cyprus, Malta, Iceland, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan European? Country inclusion depends on the business sector.
Secondly, countries can't be separated. One country can't be divided in 2 different organizations. One part in one organization, the other in another organization. Like football teams of one country's European part plays in European leagues, but Asian or African plays in Asian, African leagues respectively. Is Canary Islands in Europe? Why divide Spain in two?
Which airports in Far East Russia and Kazakhstan have at least 3,230,000 (100-Sofia Airport) passengers? --88.135.124.196 (talk) 08:39, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Dear 88.135.124.196
Where does it say that the ultimate criterion of inclusion must be 'aviation based' (with emphasis on must)? As far as I can tell, only in your post. It might be a reasonable criterion based on argumentation and consensus, but the consensus throughout the life span of this article has been that geography is king. Some of the countries you mention are European in terms of geography, some are not. Please have a look at this article [[5]] if you have any doubts about Europe as a geographical entity.
Secondly, I'm not convinced by your criterion based on ICAO Europe or UEFA membership; I still adhere to the original, simple, geography criterion, so I'm inclined to say that, yes, a country can indeed be divided into two, e.g. Turkey, Russia etc.
Thirdly, consider this hypothetical example: Vladivostok airport's passenger figures sky rocket and pass 5 million. Would you then include this airport in the list?
Since the article specifically and by its original intention refers to the geographical entity of Europe, I cannot see why we should choose another criterion of inclusion! If we choose the non-geography criteria proposed above we should also consider changing the name of the article:
"List of busiest airports in the member states of The Council of Europe" or
"List of busiest airports of members of ICAO Europe"
Best,
Sir Tanx (talk) 12:28, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
If this article is aviation related, the list must be aviation based. You can't do aviation article "geology" based.
Geography is divided in two: 1. physical geography 2. human geography. Continents in physical and human geography don't overlap, and they don't have to. Europe in physical geography is different from Europe in human geography.
Aviation geography is a human (geography) topic. Aviation geography is a subspace of human geography - economic geography - transport geography. If we do an article about aviation geography it "must be" firmly related to transport geography. Therefore transport associations, such as ICAO, are important sources for transport geography. Expert organizations have already reached consensus and decided in which countries, which airports are in Europe.
As wikipedia article is not original work, it must be based on aviation sources. --178.92.245.20 (talk) 08:13, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello 178.92.245.20
Are you same user as 88.135.124.196 and 178.93.72.34 - all three IPs are based in Ukraine. If we're going to have a lengthy debate over this issue, please register a user name.
Well, we have been basing this list of European airports on standardized physical geography for years and years, so why change this? Human geography is also an option, but a poor one. Applying this criterion is subject to much more debate than if we apply the physical geography criterion. The concept of Europe in terms of human geography vary from country to country and from person to person. In Scandinavia, Greenland for instance would very much be considered a part of Europe due to the political, economic, historical ties, although it is North American in terms of physical geography. A Canadian would consider Greenland a North American island, despite Scandinavians thinking differently. The same difference of opinion applies to Turkey, some people regard it as fully European, others regard it as partly European, while some regard it as fully Asian. The reason why I suggest that we continue using geography (physical) as a criterion, is that no one can dispute the extent of the European continent. This would mute any future debate over the issue. Again, let me point out that e.g. Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan etc. are members of ICAO Europe, for historical reasons dating back to the Soviet era. We wouldn't consider including airports from these countries in the list, so the ICAO criterion is beyond the point of further discussion.
If we are still in disagreement, let us have third parties intervene, as I suggested earlier.
Sir Tanx (talk) 12:23, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
We even don't see consistency in your statement. Your omits are only against Turkey. Wikipedia it is not the place to do that. --88.135.124.196 (talk) 06:18, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Where in my contributions does it say I'm against anyone? If I'm against anyone, I'm against people who lose their heads in a discussion and resort to name calling. Please do NOT call my motives 'anti turkey'. If anything, I'd also be anti-Far Eastern Russia, anti-Greenland, any parts-of-Kazakhstan etc.
Make an argument for your case instead of resorting to accusations of racism.
Sir Tanx (talk) 08:33, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Still there are airports in "your" list that are not in even on Eurasian tectonic plate. There are also airports of countries which don't have even a single m2 of soil on Europe. You first must have consistency in your self opinion. If not, you are discriminating only Turkey and deleting its airports.
Boundaries between Europe and Asia is more a sociopolitical question than a geographical one, since there is no tectonic plate boundary separating the two. As wikipedia users we don't have a right to impose our own personal sociopolitical point of view to the others. International organizations have already decided which countries are European, which not. If you are not satisfied, you can be the president of one of these organizations and change European border as you wish. It is not the matter of discussion in Wikipedia. --88.135.124.196 (talk) 09:57, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Your sarcastic comments are not adding constructively to the discussion nor benefiting your cause. If there are still airports in the list that do not fulfill the original criterion, of course they should be removed. If you've spotted an airport that doesn't belong, please remove it.
Sir Tanx (talk) 11:37, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Missing airports of Turkey

So many things going about if Turkey is European or not. This discussion has been over 300 years ago approx. and Turkey is taken as a European country. If not please tell me what is the relation of;

1)England 2)Ireland 3)Iceland 4)Scotland 5)Cyprus

as European country. They even have no link to a continent they are all Islands and far from main Europe except England and Scotland. I didn't forget Malta because Malta is down below Europe you can take Malta as a part of Europe but please tell me for example if Cyprus is a European country (linked to EU because of being Christian and just the Greek part) why part of Turkey is not!!! Logic fall down here. Single reason not to mention other Turkish airports except Istanbul Ataturk is racism and Islam. There is no other reason. Be sure on one thing future is our's. Do never forget my words you will live with this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.104.29.28 (talk) 12:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, you lost me in the last part. What do you mean exactly? Sir Tanx (talk) 13:26, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

The argument that this article should follow UN geoscheme (as Sir Tanx suggests) means that Cyprus as well should be deleted from this list. However, given that Cyprus is an EU member, removing Cyprus from the list is illogical. Thus, Sir Tanx's argument breaks down. Furthermore, by the same token, Turkey is currently an EU candidate going through the accession negotiations, and possibly will become a full member within this decade. Therefore, Turkey (as a whole) should be included as well. If membership requirement to the Council of Europe seems too broad of a qualification, then some other qualification related to aviation (EUROCONTROL for example) would be much better suited, and can end the dispute whether an airport is European or not. Membership to an organization is a much better criterion than the philosophical discussion of where the borders of Europe stand. Snowball_us 23:09, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Cyprus is indeed geographically Asian. I don't think there's any philosophical discussion of the geographical borders of Europe - the borders are the Atlantic, the Arctic Ocean, the Ural Mountains, the Ural River, the Caspian Sea, the Caucasus, the Black Sea, the Bosporus, the Sea of Marmara, the Dardanelles, the Mediterranean Sea, and the straits of Gibraltar. Islands lying closer to the European continental mainland than to any other continent, like Great Britain, Ireland, Iceland, Sicily, Corsica, Sardinia, Crete, and so forth, are also considered part of Europe. This is the longstanding definition of Europe. john k (talk) 06:05, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes, Larnaca should not appear from the list. I have made no case of arguing that Cyprus was part of geographical Europe, so please do not put words in my mouth, Snowball. As I noted earlier, Morocco applied for EU membership in the late 1980's. Would you consider Morocco a European country, had their application gone through? I really cannot see why membership to an organisation is a better criterion than a geographical one? Organisations get new members and old members choose to leave. Let me know which organisation you think reflects the expanse of Europe better than well ... Europe.Sir Tanx (talk) 18:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
In response to your suggestion to use Eurocontrol membership as a criterion; you are well aware that Estonia and Latvia (among others) are not members? Would Tallinn and Riga airports be disqualified from a list of European airports? I'm patiently awaiting your reply. Thanks. Sir Tanx (talk) 23:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Estonia and Latvia are already EU and ECAC members. Morocco's application is declined, but Turkey's not. Turkey is in the European air space, because it is already The Council of Europe, Eurocontrol, ECAC, ICAO Southern Europe Branch, European NATO country and future EU member. It has territory in Europe. But Morocco don't have any (membership). --88.135.125.42 (talk) 06:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello 88.135.125.42
So, how many criteria was that: EU membership, ECAC membership, application for EU membership, Council of Europe membership, Eurocontrol, ICAO, even NATO membership - wow, that is quite an immense battery of criteria just to figure out which airports goes on the list of busiest European airports, and which do not. Potentially confusing, but maybe that's just me. Tell me, why not just use Europe as the qualifying criterion. Please let me know what's so wrong with the standard geography criterion. And please do bring some compelling evidence to the discussion.Sir Tanx (talk) 10:34, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Europe = European Countries --88.135.125.42 (talk) 14:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
That was mind-blowingly compelling evidence. Thank you for that.Sir Tanx (talk) 16:17, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Discussion is now about comparing Morocco and Turkey or etc.. Let me give you some informations. President of European Council is Turkish. Turkey is the member of European council,European business association,European broadcast union,European security and collaboration council etc... so many examples like this. Turkey signed contract at 1995 with the EU regarding customs union. We are in negotiations with the EU to be a full member of EU and I really don't want that. In all destination information of the airlines's , Turkey is appearing under Europe.

During Ottoman time around 300 years ago by the decision of European countries Turkey is taken as European country since then. If you discuss this now then you have to question why Iceland or Ireland is taken as a European country. Cyprus is European because of Turkey. If you search for that you will get what I mean. Now discussion is very shallow like part of Turkey is European and part of Turkey is not. This is ridiculous because you can't take part of Turkey as European or not , then you have discuss if Turkey is European country or not like sarkozy. Even he is not French and his grandpa is Ottoman and he is Hungarian but he thinks Turkey is not European but he is not French either. Funny!!!

Just taking few criterias and comparing Turkey with Morroco,you can't conclude Turkey is Asian,you can't be that much uneducated.Better please check destinations of the airlines's,relation of Turkey with some European organisations then you will realise the place of Turkey in the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.234.241.20 (talk) 08:46, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I did not know that Herman van Rompuy was Turkish nor that Turkey was a member of the European Council. You'll have to explain that a little further if you wish to base your argumentation on fabrication. Turkey is a member of many European organisations because Turkey is partly European. I have a few questions I hope you are able to clarify: what is 'European business association'? What is 'European security and collaboration council'? EBU as a qualifier in this debate is strikingly moronic since Algeria, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia are also members.
I'm highly suspicious that you have read (or at least remembered) any of the comments above. Your argumentation is quite repetitive and easily refutable - and immensely tiring. I would suggest you read the post of john_k, 10 August, then you know what is included as European and what is not. For your clarification I will even copy the extract below:
'Cyprus is indeed geographically Asian. I don't think there's any philosophical discussion of the geographical borders of Europe - the borders are the Atlantic, the Arctic Ocean, the Ural Mountains, the Ural River, the Caspian Sea, the Caucasus, the Black Sea, the Bosporus, the Sea of Marmara, the Dardanelles, the Mediterranean Sea, and the straits of Gibraltar. Islands lying closer to the European continental mainland than to any other continent, like Great Britain, Ireland, Iceland, Sicily, Corsica, Sardinia, Crete, and so forth, are also considered part of Europe. This is the longstanding definition of Europe. john k (talk) 06:05, 10 August 2010 (UTC)'.
Geographically speaking, Anatolian Turkey has ALWAYS been Asian and the lands to the west of the Bosporus have ALWAYS been European. This has been the criterion of inclusion for this article since its beginning. If you wish to change the criterion of inclusion, put forward solid argumentation.
I really can't understand why you don't want Anatolian Turkish airports to appear on an Asian list of busiest airports, since it is, well, geographically ... Asia. Would you suggest that Anatolian airports would figure on BOTH the European list AND the Asian list? Please comment on this question. Please.
If you wish to draw a connection between argumentation and level of education of the participants of this discussion, I suggest that you demand a refund of your tuition fee.Sir Tanx (talk) 16:58, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Let me begin by clarifying a few things. The Council of Europe and the European Council are two different entities. The president of The Council of Europe, Mevlut Cavusoglu, is indeed Turkish whereas the president of the European Council, Herman van Rompuy, is Dutch. Although the two organizations share the same flag, they are not to be confused with one another as clearly stated at the top of both Wikipedia articles. The Council of Europe is open to all European states as per Article 4 of the Council of Europe Statute whereas the European Council only consists of European Union members.
Secondly, Turkey is a founding member of the Council of Europe and also candidate to the European Union as well as the European Council.
Thirdly, if you wish to go with the geographical definition of Europe as john k suggests, that is fine. However, to support this argument, it would be wise if that definition is moved onto the article page to prevent further confusion. Then, the airports in the following regions from the list will need to be removed in order to be fair:
- Cyprus
- Greek Islands in the Aegean Sea that are geographically linked to Anatolia (i.e. Rhodes)
- North African territories of Spain (i.e. Canary Islands)
- North African territories of Portugal (i.e Medeira)
These are the places I can think of at the moment that needs to be removed per john k's definition. However, I sincerely do not support the idea of dividing a country into chunks for this matter as people will keep adding these airports back onto the list as they are already part of the European Union. Then, for the same reason, all Turkish airports should stay on the list for fairness. In fact, most articles I see on Wikipedia include Turkey both in Asia and Europe, which I feel is correct; therefore, I think all Turkish airports should appear under both the European and the Asian airports lists.
Finally, I personally don't like seeing people calling one another names. I think we can keep things at a civilized level in our arguments. Snowball_us 4:02, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Van Rompuy is Belgian, not Dutch. Are airports in Rhodes and the Canary Islands in the article at present? Do you think that Novosibirsk or Ekaterinburg should be included here? john k (talk) 04:09, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the correction on Van Rompuy. Yes, currently Rhodes is on the list as well as multiple airports from the Canary Islands. I don't have any statistics on Novosibirsk or Ekaterinburg airports, but if they have sufficient number of passengers, I believe they should be included as they are Russian Airports. Snowball_us 5:53, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

President of European council

Sorry for that mistake I have typed that title without being sure about it. Mr.Mevlut Cavusoglu who is Turkish and he is the president of Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe not European Council. So sorry for that but at least you could check and find out what I mean but you didn't. Except that all the parts are true,just talking on mistypings will never make you right on taking part of Turkey as European and part of Turkey as Asian. I am just laughing at you because you have titles in here for to type and forward correct informations to a people by an internet encyclopedia called "Wikipedia" but if people follow you like this they can forget what they know and change right with wrong. Turkey is European for long years and do not try to change things by making sarkozy tricks. This is 100 % correct information be sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.234.241.20 (talk) 10:47, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Airports Council International

Mediation

Mediation over this list and inclusion was requested at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2010-08-15/List of the busiest airports in Europe. I have conditionally accepted the case. I would appreciate parties heading over to the mediation case page and briefly agreeing to non-binding mediation and laying out their view of what's wrong. Thanks! Hipocrite (talk) 15:36, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

2010 traffic

Athens airport data for 2010 is not correct

The passenger traffic records for the Athens international airport (ATH) are not correct. According to the official airport site (www.aia.gr) the number for 2010 is 15.411.099 pax and not 14.439.266 as shown in the list. This would place Athens above Berlin's Tegel airport (TXL) http://www.aia.gr/UserFiles/File/trafficStatistics/2010/dec/164718_pax_dec_2010_EN.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.118.108.51 (talk) 15:41, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

You're right - I'm not sure where the old data came from as the reference is the same as yours and correctly states the new total. I have updated the figures and the ranking accordingly. SempreVolando (talk) 16:14, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

This is a list of the 100 busiest airports in Europe, ranked by total passengers per year in 2011, including both terminal and transit passengers.

The table also shows the percentage change in total passengers for each airport between 2010 and 2011. Data is sourced individually for each airport and normally originates from national aviation authority statistics, or those of the airport operator.

European airports are defined as those that are within the airspace of the member and candidate states of The Council of Europe.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.86.4.129 (talk) 20:16, 5 January 2012

Athens airport 2011 data missing

The 2011 data for Athens International airport have been released in its official website. Here are the links: http://www.aia.gr/UserFiles/File/trafficStatistics/2011/Dec2011/144659_Pax_Dec2011_ENG.pdf http://www.aia.gr/UserFiles/File/trafficStatistics/2011/Dec2011/144801_Flights_Dec2011_ENG.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.118.63.171 (talk) 18:45, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

IATA/ICAO codes?

Is there a reason there are no IATA/ICAO codes listed? For some groups of people, these are useful keys for cross-referencing. Any objection to adding them? —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 02:02, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Adding my vote to include codes -- S.C. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.124.64 (talk) 20:05, 1 March 2018

Orphaned references in List of the busiest airports in Europe

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of the busiest airports in Europe's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Lyon":

  • From Frankfurt: "Partner Cities of Lyon and Greater Lyon". copyright 2008 Mairie de Lyon. Retrieved 17 July 2009.
  • From Birmingham: "Partner Cities of Lyon and Greater Lyon". 2008 Mairie de Lyon. Retrieved 17 July 2009.
  • From Gothenburg: "Partner Cities of Lyon and Greater Lyon". Mairie de Lyon. 2008. Retrieved 17 July 2009.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 06:18, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Comparison to area's population

An interesting figure to add is the ration to the population of the area served by the airport. For example, LHR moves 3 times the passengers of ZRH, but it moves 5 time its areas' population, compared to ZRH moving 15 times its area's population. 188.154.8.111 (talk) 12:03, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

2015 stats - "provisional"?

Are the 2015 stats still "provisional"? I do think the article ought to be updated. If there are any provisional stats for 2016 available it would be good to see these too. Bambi'nin annesi (talk) 17:01, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

I tried to remove the word provisional in June, but that was reverted for the reason "Spanish airport statistics are still provisional". At present the precisely same values and the source is used for Spanish airports.--BIL (talk) 21:36, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
Final statistics for Spanish airports have now been published but you will notice for most airports the totals differ from the provisional stats (e.g. Madrid 46,824,838 is around 3,500 less than the provisional stats currently quoted on the page). That's why we have the provisional note when final stats are pending. I will try to update all those Spanish stats with the correct final info then I think the note can be removed. SempreVolando (talk) 22:28, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 Done Spanish airport totals changed to full-year, provisional title removed. SempreVolando (talk) 09:43, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

IATA CODES

Could we please add the IATA code for each airport? (E.G. Rome = FCO) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmp717200 (talk • contribs) 19:08, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

These were removed some time ago as unnecessary detail - the wiki links to the respective airport pages are provided for readers to obtain further such details about each airport. SempreVolando (talk) 03:14, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Geographical Europe ONLY!

We have to include only airports which are located in geographical Europe, if we start to include airports from location that were historically European we have to include, nearly the half of the world. About the airports in Turkey, I consider that we have to count only Istanbul Ataturk Airport, because it lays in the geographical part of Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kala555 (talk • contribs) 09:57, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Statistics for 2008?

I would like to se the statistics for 2008!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.24.65.13 (talk) 13:51, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Canarian, Cypriot and Russian airports

Recently we again encountered new cases of deletion of Canarian, Cypriot and Russian airports in the statistics for 2017. Please keep in mind that those airports are all within the airspace of the member and candidate states of The Council of Europe. As agreed from the beginning, they qualify therefore for this list, which was also the case in previous years (2010-2016). Please do not delete Canarian, Cypriot and Russian airports in the statistics for 2017.

The last (working) consensus — that Europe is considered geographically, exists since the summer of 2017. The article was always called the largest airports in Europe. The Council of Europe or the European Union is not Europe. These are three different subjects (somewhere similar) with different characteristics. The article deals with Europe, and not something else. The list of airports of the Council of Europe, the European Union and so on should be reflected in other articles.--Germash19 (talk) 18:17, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
I don't know, where you see "the last consensus". I believe, it is your wishful thinking. The article was always ranking the airports according to the Council of Europe criteria. Therefore, please do not change it, or create a new article called "Busiest airports in the EU" or "Busiest airports in Geographical Europe". So please, do not delete any Canarian, Cypriot and Russian airpots here. Thank you. --Kostja1975 (talk) 19:33, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
In the summer of 2017, this page was under discussion started by The Raincloud Kid: «...the page should only include airports actually in Europe, which is not an arbitrary term but a geographical area». The reference to the Council of Europe was deleted and some airports were removed. From the summer of 2017 until recently there were no objections on this matter. WP:CONS: «Any edit that is not disputed or reverted by another editor can be assumed to have consensus.» So, I return the consensus version of the article. --Germash19 (talk) 20:36, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
In this sense, the geographical area is actually is an arbitrary term. For instance, you have deleted Larnaca airport because you believe, Cyprus is a part of Asia. However, you left Rhodes airport in the ranking because you are not aware that, "The Greek North Aegean Islands and the Dodecanese lie on the coast of the Asian part of Turkey (on the Asian continental shelf)." I cite the wikipedia article Boundaries between the continents of Earth. On the other hand, the Council of Europe criteria has the exact, clearly defined and undisputable boundaries. Therefore, I revert you deletion of Canarian, Cypriot and Russian airports and kindly ask you to refrain from further deletion until you have any further arguments, thank you. Kostja1975 (talk) 10:33, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Europe has inaccurate borders. Yes. But the borders of Europe are not the borders of the Council of Europe. The territory of the Council of Europe is twice as large as that of Europe. It includes territories in Africa, America, Asia, and Oceania. At the same time, several European countries do not belong to the Council of Europe. There is no reason for the presence of non-European airports on this list --Germash19 (talk) 22:13, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
It'a matter of whether an airport belongs to the European airspace through the membership in the Council of Europe. There's no reason to split the airspace through the artificial land boundaries, which is evident for example for Rhodes airport - it's a Greek airport in the European airspace but on the Asian shelf. Kostja1975 (talk) 13:54, 8 March 2018 (UTC)}}
Again. This article is not about the airports of the Council of Europe. --Germash19 (talk) 12:00, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

@Kostja1975 The island of Rhodes and the island of Cyprus do not "belong" to the continental self of Asia. You need to look up your geography. They are and always have been part of Europe. So please stop vandalizing this entry. Ian 1975 (talk) 16:30, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Asian Turkish airports

I've had a look at the previous debate over whether to include airports that are not geographically in Europe. I think they should not be on this page, for the following reasons:

  • This page is entitled 'busiest airports in Europe', not 'busiest airports of countries in the Council of Europe'. If the page is going to be renamed the latter, fair enough, otherwise the page should only include airports actually in Europe, which is not an arbitrary term but a geographical area, of which Sabiha Gökçen, Antalya, Esenboğa, Adnan Menderes and Adana Şakirpaşa are definitively not a part of.
  • Unlike Sochi, for example, where it is genuinely historically debatable whether or not its area is geographically European, Turkey east of the Bosphorus has literally never been seen as geographically European. So again, unless the page is to be renamed, those airports will need to be removed, otherwise it is no more logical than including airports in North Africa.
  • Precedent - all other pages on Wikipedia listing busiest airports by continent don't go by inexplicably chosen international political body's remits, but rather by geography. The only exception to this is the page on Asia - and the reason for that is, again, Turkey, as for some reason that page doesn't include airports that are unquestionably geographically Asian, just because they happen to be in a country which is part of a demonstrably intercontinental political grouping which is named another continent.

To be clear, I am not at all arguing that no Turkish airports should be included, just that only those in the geographically European part of Turkey (e.g. Istanbul Atatürk) should be on a list of European airports.

So essentially, we have two options, remove the airports that are under no definition geographically European, or rename this page to reflect the fact that airports are included not be whether they are European or not, but by whether they are in member states of the Council of Europe.

If I have missed other arguments against removing those airports, please let me know! The Raincloud Kid (talk) 15:14, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Just to let people know, as I haven't had any replies here in a week, tomorrow I will be removing those Turkish airports mentioned above, for the reasons set out above, unless a legitimate reason why they shouldn't be removed is presented before then. Thanks! The Raincloud Kid (talk) 20:10, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
Ok. I removed the African and Asian airports of other countries. --Germash19 (talk) 10:58, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
GodeNehler, I do not understand the reason for canceling my edit. Do you want to do as before (Council of Europe)? Then you need to include Turkey's airports. But now only Europe airports and in the list. The list should not have some African and Asian airports in Turkey, Spain and Russia. --Germash19 (talk) 11:51, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Dear editors, The page should be edited in a more consistent way. For example, some airports in Turkey (Asia Minor - Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen, Antalya, Ankara Esenboga, Izmir Adnan Menderes, Adana, etc.) currently are not included in the list while at the same time airports in Siberia (Yekaterinburg Koltsovo and Novosibirsk Tolmachevo) are in. (Milenmk (talk) 11:57, 16 January 2018 (UTC))

Hi Germash19, according to the Map at Europe, Sochi belongs to Europe. Little bit more difficult: Gran Canaria is geographical a African archipelago, but Political it belongs to Europe. So I would count it as Europe. --GodeNehler (talk) 14:23, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
This discussion started by The Raincloud Kid shows that there is a consensus on the issue that it includes Europe's airports as a geographical concept, without any policy (before Europe was meant as a Council of Europe). That is, not all airports of countries located on several continents (Russia, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Spain) are listed. Only airports in Europe. The most popular versions of the border of Europe are the Kumo-Manych depression or the Caucasian ridge. According to this, Sochi is located in Asia. I repeat the question. Do you want a different principle of listing?--Germash19 (talk) 16:37, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Cancel Filipw`s edits. Revert consensus (geographical Europe). Filipw, you say that the Canaries are not Africa. Probably because it's an islands (not a continent). But it means that England, Ireland, Iceland... not Europe ;).--Germash19 (talk) 22:49, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@Germash19 the Spanish, Greek and Cypriot airports being removed by certain Turkish posters are European. The British isles, the Canaries, Cyprus, Island, Faeroe islands are European. Relative distance from one or the other continental self does not dictate whether a country or its islands is European, Asian or African. All the aforementioned islands have always been considered integral parts of Europe geographically, administratively, culturally and politically. Kind regards. Ian 1975 (talk) 20:11, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
Europe in the article is a geographical concept. Not cultural, not political, not administrative. Wikipedia focuses on reliable sources. They are available in the article Boundaries between the continents of Earth. According to these sources - the Canary Islands in Africa, Cyprus in Asia. --Germash19 (talk) 23:01, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

About non-European airports in the list

Should be on the list of European airports are non-European airports (airports of the Council of Europe which are not located in Europe)? Germash19 (talk) 21:04, 5 March 2018 (UTC) Should the article List of the busiest airports in Europe include airports of the Council of Europe which are not located in the continental area (roughly: Africa/Asia/America) as defined by the Europe article?--Germash19 (talk) 18:12, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

If someone wants to re-write according to some new criteria an article which existed for 8 years, one has also to show very good reasons for it, which appeared nowadays and did not exist 8 years ago. I personally do not see any. On the other hand, the disadvantages of changing from the criteria of the Council of Europe to purely geographical criteria are evident. For instance, it means deletion of airports that are within the European airspace but formally not geographically in Europe, for example: Canarian airports, Larnaca airport and Rhodes airports, potentially also Madeira airport. Secondly, geographical boundaries between Europe and Asia are not clearly defined and a subject of dispute. For example, Russian airports of Yekaterinburg and Sochi are either in Europe or in Asia, depending only on which convention is applied. (talk) 15:14, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
Naming always (since 2006) was a «list of airports in Europe» (not Council of Europe). Always in the list there was a link to the article Europe. From 2009 to 2017 there was also a text about the Council of Europe.These are different concepts, they contradict each other.In the summer of 2017 this ambiguity has been removed.--Germash19 (talk) 21:57, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
I can see the reasons, why the Council of Europe criteria with airports belonging to the European airspace was chosen from the beginning. However, the removal of that reference was totally unjustified due to forementioned factors. Kostja1975 (talk) 13:52, 8 March 2018 (UTC)}}
What if the non-continental airports are denoted as such, perhaps with separate colors? Sparkyb10123 (talk) 19:20, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

The island of Rhodes as well as the rest of the Dodecanese islands are firmly within Europe. Please stop making up definitions of what is European and what not. Asia Minor does not "get" the Greek islands on itself in any way, shape or form. So please stop vandalizing this page. Ian 1975 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ian 1975 (talk • contribs) 14:11, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi all--summoned for RfC. Looking over the article and the recent editing, I see there is a preponderance of edits by WP:NOTHUMAN and possibly spa and possibly sockpuppet. And they are not participating in this RfC. Perhaps the page should be semi-protected to protect against disruptive editing. Looking at the article regarding the notion that geographical boundaries between Europe and Asia are debatable, it seems that this article needs to address this article with those somewhat uncertain boundaries in mind. Maybe it this is better addressed as the ideas stated earlier that the criteria may have changed or non-continental airports differently denoted. Until then, I believe this is prime ground for disruptive editing and edit wars. Thanks for everyone's comments and happy editing.Horst59 (talk) 18:35, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Discussion is not about the borders of Europe. Kostja1975 adds to the list airports, which are not located in Europe (in any borders). --Germash19 (talk) 12:24, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps I am not understanding the issue being presented. I did not see that Kostja1975 was advocating for airports outside any discussed or presumed European borders. It still seems that a clear meaning of the designation of Europe is central to this discussion. Should we include airports on the Russian Pacific Coast. Clearly no. And Moscow should be.Horst59 (talk) 18:06, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Clarification requested: @Germash19: This is a request for clarification of the wording of your Rfc question above. I will attempt to write here what I think you meant. Please tell me if this is a correct restatement of your question:

Should the article List of the busiest airports in Europe include airports of the Council of Europe which are not located in the continental area (roughly: Arctic/Atlantic/Mediterranean/Urals) as defined by the Europe article?
  • If this is not what you meant, can you please clarify below.
  • If it is what you meant, feel free to add this wording immediately under your original words above, however per WP:REDACT since other people have already responded, please do not remove the text you originally wrote above. (You may, if you choose, add strikeout type for your original text, or you may leave it as is, according to your preference.)

Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 05:39, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Approximately as you described. At the moment the question concerns the airport of Cyprus, the airports located in the Asian part of Russia and Turkey and in the African part of Spain (Canary Islands).--Germash19 (talk) 18:12, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Germash19 the airports that you mention as Asian (Rhodes and Larnaca) are actually European. Both geographically and culturally/politically. So please stop vandalizing this entry and move on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ian 1975 (talk • contribs) 14:11, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

I did not mention Rhodes. I do not mind showing it on the list. You add to the list Cyprus (located in Asia), but do not add Asian Turkey. Very strange.--Germash19 (talk) 18:12, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Actually the Republic of Cyprus is a European country. All of it. I understand that you think it is Asian but that doesn't make it so. The Turkish airports lying on Asia Minor are axiomatically in... Asia! Also Sochi is clearly within Europe. Kind regards. Ian 1975 (talk) 20:37, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

  • Guy, the council of Europe criteria has to be in. It has defined borders at least. Otherwise you will argue here forever how to define what European airport is. Yes, Cyprus is a member of EU but geographically it's in Asia. Same applies to the Spanish airports in Africa. This duality will always be, just face it. Kostja1975 (talk) 22:21, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

@Kostja1975 enough with your spamming! Asia or Africa do not get countries and islands to be "theirs" just because of how far or close said place/island is from them. Iceland for example is much, much closer to Greenland which geologically is part of the continent of North America but belongs to Europe. Similarly the Spanish islands, the Greek islands, Cyprus, Svalbard etc. belong in Europe. Also Cyprus is a European country. Not an Asian one. Deal with it. On the other hand Siberia and the Asian part of Turkey are in Asia. Simple enough to understand? Ian 1975 (talk) 11:39, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Canarian Islands are Africa, Cyprus is Asia. This are facts from the respective article of wikipedia. [1][2] Kostja1975 (talk) 09:39, 27 March 2018.

No they are not. And their respective pages make no such mention. So don't ridicule yourself any more with your lies. Move on into something more constructive than vandalizing Wikipedia entries. Ian 1975 (talk) 17:35, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Do not ridicule yourself further by denying the facts from the other wikipedia articles. You have already ridiculed yourself enough by claiming I ever deleted Canarian or Cypriot airports from the rating. Kostja1975 (talk) 21:53, 27 March 2018.
Very confused RFC as far as I know the Council of Europe is a political organisation and doesnt have any airports, like other "busiest airports" articles the criteria is based on geography per the "Europe" article. MilborneOne (talk) 19:37, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
This article existed in 2009-2017 with the Council of Europe criteria because the geographical boundaries of Europe are disputable by their nature. If you have a better idea with a clear criteria for European airports, please post it here. Without such definition, there will be a persistent edit warring between the users like what is going on right now. Kostja1975 (talk) 22:06, 27 March 2018.
We should not make up our own criteria and use political bodies that do not have any airports, what do reliable sources like IATA/ICAO use for busiest airport statistics. MilborneOne (talk) 14:14, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
For example, ACI (Airports Council International) Europe is a reliable source. It publishes in its Airport Traffic Report[3] a rating of busiest airports in Europe (page 34). What do you think about that? For me it looks good except 1 point: for political reasons it includes Ben Gurion airport (Tel Aviv) but excludes Simferopol in Crimea. Kostja1975 (talk) 16:45, 28 March 2018 (UTC).
Airports Council International Europe (also European Union and Council of Europe) is not Europe. The territories of these objects do not coincide.--Germash19 (talk) 19:29, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa#/media/File:Africa_(orthographic_projection).svg
  2. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia#/media/File:Asia_on_the_globe_(Asia_centered).svg
  3. ^ "ACI EUROPE Airport Traffic Report. December, Q4 and Full Year 2017". Retrieved 28 march 2018. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)
  • No If the determination is that parts of Spain, Turkey, and Russia lie outside of Europe, then those airports are outside of Europe, too. Chris Troutman (talk) 04:31, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Border of Europe

One could doubt whether Ankara, Antalya, Gran Canaria, Lanzarote and Larnaca are in Europe. Ankara, Antalya have been recently removed, but Gran Canaria, Lanzarote and Larnaca are in. We should follow the principle from the article Europe and the article about the areas. However they are not clear. --BIL (talk) 16:48, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Of cours they are. The spanish irelands are not far away from the Spanish coast and Cyprus (Larnaca) is member of European Union.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Dipsa (talk • contribs) 18:47, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
The Canary Islands are in Africa, hundreds of miles away from Europe. Jim Michael (talk) 19:09, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

The Greek island of Rhodes does not belong in Asia in any sense of the word. Please keep entries in this page factual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ian 1975 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

This is easy guys.

From Turkey, only Istanbul Atatűrk Airport is located in Europe. From Russia only Moscow, Skt. Petersburg and Sochi. From Ukraine Kiev ans Simferopol Larnaca is Europe Rhodos is Europe Canarian Islans is Europe Madeira is Europe I wollowed this wikipage since 2010, and it was like that since 2016. Now, I can se, that some people want to change the rules of the game and started to ad. Novosibirsk, Ekaterinburg, Turkish airports (others than Atatűrk),to the list, and they want to delete Canarian Airports and Larnaca. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.164.141.37 (talk) 07:59, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

That's what you believe. For instance Germash19 believes Sochi is not Europe. And for your information direct links: Canary Islands are Africa, Cyprus is Asia. If you want to dispute this, you should do it in the related wiki pages but not here. Kostja1975 (talk) 9:21, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Well, I will never accept the russian airports of Ekaterinburg and Novosibirsk in this Top100. I will delete all turkish airports, exept Istanbul Atatürk. I do not care if Larnaca and Canary Islands enter this Top 100 or not. You kan just delete them, if you consider,that they are not located in Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.164.141.37 (talk) 19:13, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Well, if a decision is made to have this page protected, nobody will ask your opinion. If you try to vandalize, you will be blocked, it's simple. Kostja1975 (talk) 19:38, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

@Kostja1975 Delete first all non european airports from Russia, Turkey, Cyprus, Canary Islands, and than you can have this page protected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.164.141.37 (talk) 21:31, 29 March 2018 (UTC) Conclusions: 1. Europe goes to Ural Mountains! There is no doubt, that Ekaterinburg and Novosibirsk (located east for Ural Mountains) are not European airports. 2. Europe goes to Bosphorus Strait. There is no doubt, that Antalya, Esenboga, Izmir, Adana, Dalaman and Sabina Gôkcen are not European airports 3. Europe goes to Caucasus Mountains (From Baku to Novorossijsk). The airports from Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaidjan are not European. Is Sotji located north for Caucasus Mountains (Europe) or South for Caucasus Mountains (Asia)? It seams that Sotji is located south for Caucasus Mountains. If so, is not Europe. 4. Cyprus and Canary Islands? I don't know. I think they are European, but thinking is not enough. I let you decide! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.164.141.37 (talk) 11:53, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 28 March 2018

Airports of Turkey needs to be added.Ottomanor (talk) 08:58, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

I believe, rather a clear criteria for inclusion of any airports needs to be added. The pure geographical reference to Europe will never work because the boundaries of Europe are intrinsically debatable. The only plausible solution to this problem was return to status quo of 2009-2017 when the Council of Europe criteria was there. Otherwise the edit warring will never stop. If someone has a better criteria, he's welcome to discuss it here. Kostja1975 (talk) 11:30, 28 March 2018.
This article is about airports in Europe. Not about the airports that are located in the member countries of the Council of Europe.--Germash19 (talk) 19:44, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
The boundaries of Europe are disputable. If you insists on "purely" Europe criteria, those edit warring will never stop because every user thinks he knows better what Europe is. Kostja1975 (talk) 20:38, 28 March 2018.

Request declined while the RFC is still open. MilborneOne (talk) 14:16, 28 March 2018 (UTC) Hello guys I follow this page since 2010, and everithing was fine. There was no conflicts, and everything was peace and harmony for 7 years. Everybody agreed that the Rudsian airports locates east for Ural Mountains, are not european. Everybody agreed that the turkish airports located east for Bosphorus Strait, are not european. Everybody agreed at Cyprus, Rhodos, Canary Islands are european airports, and shoud be included in Top 100. It worked for 7 years, so lai it be like that. It was so peacefull here, until Kostja 1975 and Ottomanor came here, and broke/spoiled the harmony. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.164.141.37 (talk) 09:37, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Everything was peaceful because the Council of Europe criteria was there. View article history, everything is there. For example, Novosibirsk (east of Urals) appeared in the ratings first in 2013, then in 2014. Nobody objected. Or, another example, Turkish airport of Antalya always appeared in the rating until 13 July 2017. Then The Raincloud Kid removed the reference to the Coucil of Europe criteria and the edit warring started. Kostja1975 (talk) 10:08, 29 March 2018.
"Peaceful" is not the same as 'correct', and so isn't a relevant criterion to judge a Wikipedia page by. I've explained it repeatedly, that under no definition of Europe is Turkey east of the Bosphorus included. If you'd like to argue for the page to be renamed 'List of the busiest airports in the member states of the Council of Europe', then by all means do so. But you don't solve the problem of whether or not to include the airports around Europe's borders which actually are "intrinsically debatable" by including airports whose location in Europe is not intrinsically debatable at all, and simply isn't the case. The Raincloud Kid (talk) 17:16, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Well, speaking your language, your version of the page should be "List of the busiest airports in Europe with boundaries which user Raincloud Kid believes are correct". For example, Germash19 believes Sochi is not Europe, you believe it is. You will never come to a compromise because the boundaries of Europe are not clearly defined. Then you want to have the airports of Canary Islands and Cyprus to be included in the rating only because they are islands and in the EU. But geographically they are undoubtedly in Africa (direct link for proof) and Asia (direct link, too) , respectively. If you intend to argue about that, than you should do it in the related wiki pages but not here. Germash19 understands this, you don't. For me it is OK if they are included but then the Turkish and Russian airports east of Bosphoros and east of Urals should be included too because they are also parts of (partly) European countries. That's why the Council of Europe Criteria was always there before you deleted it in July 2017. Kostja1975 (talk) 18:34, 29 March 2018 (UTC).
I'd prefer not to explain this again, as I've done so so many times now, but here goes. Firstly, however, I'd like to point out that you are wrong to claim that I 'believe' Sochi is in Europe (in fact, in general, it's best not to tell others what they believe, for the very good reason that you do not, and cannot know), and you're absolutely wrong to tell me what I do or don't 'know'. You have no idea what I, or any other Wikipedia user believes or knows, so in future, avoid ad hominem comments. Moreover, your claim that I "want to have the airports of Canary Islands and Cyprus to be included in the rating only because they are islands and in the EU" is not only bizarre but completely untrue. Not only have I not once made either of those claims (seriously, don't tell other users what they think because, as here, you will be proved to be telling mistruths very quickly indeed) but in the case of the EU, my own view was the exact opposite - I have repeatedly told you that membership of European organisations, such as the EU, or your own apparently arbitrarily favoured Council of Europe, does not mean that such countries are (wholly or partly) in Europe. To move on to the actual issue at hand, I respect the fact that there is genuine debate, and has been long into the past, about whether the region of Russia Sochi is in is part of Europe or not. And as much as it pains me to dignify this particular claim with an answer, obviously I do not think the page should include the airports I 'believe' to be correctly in Europe, because Wikipedia is not about my views, but objective facts. As I've already told you, repeatedly, my view in this case, to the extent it's relevant, is that given that many - but not, crucially, all - of Europe's borders are blurred, in those cases a generous definition should be applied to airports in those areas. A good example of this is Sochi (have a look at the map of the Europe-Asia border here to see how the region of Russia Sochi is part of has been sometimes considered part of Europe, and sometimes considered not). If other users have a different view on how these 'possible' European airports should be dealt with, that can definitely be dealt with on the talk page; I have my view, as I've just expressed, but ultimately the right answer as to whether such airports should be included is subjective, so a good debate should be had there, and the result respected. Turkey east of the Bosphorus, on the other hand, is not in that same class of region as Sochi (i.e. those that may or may not be considered part of Europe). For the umpteenth time, Turkey east of the Bosphorus is not, and has literally never been, considered part of geographic Europe (which is what 'Europe' obviously means) - see that map again if you don't want to take my word for it. You cannot logically include airports which under no definition are in Europe, in a list of European airports. What you can justifiably do, on the other hand - if that is what consensus leads to - is include those airports in regions which may or may not be included in definitions of Europe (such as Sochi). Thus, legitimate debate can be had about whether to include airports which sometimes are and sometimes aren't included in definitions of Europe, but legitimate debate cannot be had about whether to include airports which are objectively not in Europe. Happy to have explained that for you, again. The Raincloud Kid (talk) 21:50, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
It's also worth pointing out that your argument that Cyprus is "undoubtedly in Asia" with your attached "proof" fails at the first hurdle. If you think the fact that Cyprus is listed as a country on the Asia Wikipedia article means that it cannot possibly be European, then a response in kind is very easily found on the Wikipedia article about Europe, which includes Cyprus. Again, have a look yourself if you don't believe me. It's extraordinary you wouldn't have thought to look at that before boldly claiming 'proof' that Cyprus wasn't European, but regardless, all that matters here is that your argument for Cyprus not being European can be discounted. There may be other - possibly valid - reasons for Cyprus not to be included, and you are welcome to provide those on the talk page if you choose to debate for Cyprus to not be considered European in the context of this article. But, again, this is a completely separate case from Turkey east of the Bosphorus, because Cyprus is sometimes considered part of Europe, whereas Turkey east of the Bosphorus never is. The Raincloud Kid (talk) 00:31, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Kostja1975, I do not «believe» in something (where Sochi is located). I already wrote why I delete Sochi from the article. --Germash19 (talk) 13:24, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
You might believe that Sochi is not part of Europe, but that does not make it so. I noticed that you did not delete Heathrow and Gatwick airports from the list, even though the are on an offshore island whose people have voted that they are not part of Europe. Your position does not make sense. Sochi is just as much part of Europe as offshore islands such as Crete, Cyprus, the Canary Islands, Britain and Ireland.-- Toddy1 (talk) 14:55, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Aci.aero and Aci-Europe are accept Turkish airports are in European region. They established year to date pax numbers and Antalya, Izmir, Sabiha Gokcen and Ankara airports are in the Europe. All aviation authorities accept this one but some clever gay thing that Turkish airports are in the Asia (Except LTBA). Some guy already explain their opinion as long sentences above essays. Please clearly read the following link thereafter delete your wrong and racism thing in your mind. I will not write long long sentences, only review below link PDF.
This is a official document not someones' opinion attention this

https://yadi.sk/i/TgIBOG8T3ULicb --Mertborak (talk) 07:51, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Russia

I think Sochi is european airport, because it is north from Caucasus. Please add it there, Caucasus is the most common border between Europe and Asia. Why it is missing here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.112.217.27 (talk) 22:24, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Why Simferopol is only Ukraine? Correct is to change it Ukraine/Russia, because it is disputed land. Several countries in the world recognized Crimea as Russian land and there are valid russian laws. So please do not make here nonsenses! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.112.217.27 (talk) 09:47, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Done.--Germash19 (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Sochi is included to 2016 stats, but missing in 2017 stats. Ekaterinburg is missing in the list. If Europe is defined as policital and historical, then all Russian airports should be considered, not only those in European part. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.141.124.77 (talk) 18:39, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

I don't think that Siberia was ever considered politically or historically European. Agree though on the inclusion of Sochi airport in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ian 1975 (talk • contribs) 13:26, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Krasnodar

Why wasn't Krasnodar added? Korzhik83 (talk) 18:11, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Vandalization

@Germash19: has been vandalizing the article of List of the busiest airports in Europe, and has been adding a reference citing outdated, old, and geographically wrong images from Encyclopedia Britannica. Claiming that Krasnodar, and the Krasnodar International Airport is located within Asia, when it is entirely within southern European Russia, in the western extremity of the Russian Federation, and the North Caucasus is generally considered a part of Eastern Europe. When i reverted his vandalism and gave him a notice on his talk page, he did not discuss or even answer my notice, he rather gave me a threat on my talk page. I did not revert his vandalism this time, he obviously added it back again. So i had to discuss this on the talk page.
This is copied from my user talk page.
Warning icon Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to blank out or remove portions of page content, templates, or other materials from Wikipedia without adequate explanation, as you did at List of the busiest airports in Europe, you may be blocked from editing. --Germash19 (talk) 21:00, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
When i reverted his edit i gave clear explanation on why i did it, that is not counted as disruptive editing, I did not blank out or remove portions of page content, templates, or other materials from Wikipedia without adequate explanation. This is also not the first time he has done this, if you check his talk page, he has been warned multiple times for WP:Vandalism and engaging in WP:Edit warring, and has even got blocked from editing a few times, if someones decides to warn him about his disruptive editing, he does not follow WP:BRD, and decides to threat them back, saying they are going to get blocked from editing.
Now, coming to his point that the southern part of European Russia, is apparently within the Asian continent, as he claims, is as absurd as it seems. If you follow the map shown in Encyclopedia Britannica, which is clearly wrong, and shows that the North Caucasus is outside of Europe, and is a part of Asia, it seems like the North Caucasus is an exclave of Asia not even connected to Asia or Asian Russia by land, and is rather located within Europe. The image also excludes the smaller European portions of the transcontinental countries of Georgia and Azerbaijan. It is also not like that Krasnodar is located close to the divider of Europe and Asia, the Ural Mountains, and the Caucasus, that he keeps adding the reference that apparently the airport is in the boundary of Europe and Asia, and also a bold claim that it can be considered in Asia, without citing any other references or sources supporting his claims. The Krasnodar International Airport is located within the city of Krasnodar, which is located in Krasnodar Krai, a federal subject of Russia located in Eastern Europe, which borders the Black Sea, and is separated from the Crimean Peninsula by the Sea of Azov.
The borders of Europe have been discussed in this article for many years. See the archive. Here you can resolve the question of the authority of Britannica and the BSE — Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. You think I'm breaking the rules. Vandalism. You can write about it here — Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism, or here — Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard. And read this — WP:CIV.--Germash19 (talk) 18:11, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Berlin

I believe we should separate BER from TXL and SXF, just like we did with ISL and IST when the latter replaced the first. TXL and SXF should just be shown in their own right, with BER appearing as a new entry with its passenger numbers since 25 October (I guess around 1 million). That's how we did it with Istanbul.

It is by any means wrong to combine BER with TXL, because it is on the grounds of SXF, not of TXL. There would be some logic to viewing BER as an expansion of SXF, but not to seeing BER as the continuation of TXL. Nevertheless, I think we should be consistent and stick to how we dealt with IST/ISL and deal the same way with BER/TXL/SXF. Treat them as if they are all completely separate airports. You can add a note with TXL and SXF that they ceased to operate in October/November and you can add a note with BER that it began operating in October. Hhl95, 19 January 2021, 12:57 (UTC+1) — Preceding undated comment added 11:59, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Graph

I think the graph should show Atatürk Airport (ISL) as well as the new one (IST). Currently it is only showing the new one, which hasn't had very many visitors in 2017 or 2018…

Good point. And how should we deal with the fact that the Top 10 contains some other airports in 2020? Hhl95, 19 January 2021, 13:01 (UTC+1) — Preceding undated comment added 12:02, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Tbilisi, Erevan, Baku

These cities are in Asia, so I have withraw them from list. Also Krasnodar, Mineralnye vody are discutable, but south from Caucasus is definitely in Asia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.177.152.142 (talk) 18:38, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Russia 2022 stats

It's unlikely Russia will publish it's figures for 2022. With 70% of it's routes terminated, it might be best to remove Moscow and St Petersburg from the chart. 51.155.101.56 (talk) 00:22, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Moscow airports might be still active at 70-100% of 2021 numbers, St Petersburg reported by Fraport is at 100% of 2021, but I would not believe any of the numbers reported by smaller airports, especially those in the south, close to the war zone. Mineralne Vody, Samara, IMHO should be removed from the list. 149.156.47.231 (talk) 14:41, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
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