Talk:List of restaurants owned or operated by Gordon Ramsay

A fact from List of restaurants owned or operated by Gordon Ramsay appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 9 October 2013 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that chef Gordon Ramsay has opened or operated restaurants in South Africa, Italy, Japan, Qatar, France and Australia in addition to the United Kingdom and United States?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2013/October. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/List of restaurants owned or operated by Gordon Ramsay.

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Additional Restaurants[edit]

Gordon Ramsay Group have confirmed they are to open a third maze Grill in Chelsea this May at 79 Royal Hospital Road, originally the site of Ramsay’s Foxtrot Oscar. http://www.thestaffcanteen.com/news/gordon-ramsay-group-open-maze-grill-chelsea

I dont know how wiki tables work, so can someone add this in.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.162.229.236 (talk) 17:02, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This was finally done yesterday (27 June 2022). Unfortunately, the Maze Grill on Royal Hospital Rd. after opening in May 2015, closed in November 2020. But on 19 April 2021 that site re-opened as a Gordon Ramsay Bar & Grill (which is also on the list). FYI: there are no longer any Maze or Maze Grill locations open under that name. 108.82.26.46 (talk) 21:39, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Notable restaurants[edit]

I'm proposing we limit this list to notable restaurants. WP isn't a directory, and that's what this list seems to have become. Valereee (talk) 21:35, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• This article is an extension of the article about Gordon Ramsay himself; rather than tabulating his list of restaurants in the main article about the man, that article about Ramsay now refers to this article for a full list of what places he's owned/operated; how does your proposed change affect that?

• If this were an article about a business where all locations are basically the same thing (ex: Outback Steakhouse), I would agree with you 100%, but this is a LOT of different restaurant concepts, with locations all over the globe, owned/operated by a chef that people take a lot of interest in.

• Who decides which restaurants are notable, and which ones aren't?

• When it comes to a "chain" of restaurants (Gordon Ramsay Steak, or Bread Street Kitchen), who decides which locations are "notable" enough to list, and how? For Gordon Ramsay Steak, is Las Vegas notable, but not Southern Indiana?

• If somebody decides that "casual" chains like Street Burger, Gordon Ramsay's Fish & Chips, and Street Pizza are not notable, doesn't that deprive the WP user who consults the article of finding out a portion of the history of Gordon Ramsay and his restaurants?

• If somebody decides that closed locations are no longer notable, doesn't that also deprive the WP user who consults the article about a rather significant portion of the history of the restaurants of Gordon Ramsay? EXAMPLE: Aubergine is one of his earliest places, open from 1993-2010. From 1997-1999 it held two Michelin stars. In 1998, though, Gordon Ramsay pulled out of being involved with Aubergine for business reasons. In 2015 Ramsay bought the place back and made it the 3rd location of Maze Grill. In 2020 it closed for a few months, being rebranded and opening in 2021 as the third location of Gordon Ramsay Bar & Grill, where it still operates in the Park Walk area of London to this day.

• The obvious alternative to this article would be to have a bunch of separate articles about each of the restaurants/restaurant chains with each of their different concepts, and to not list each location but rather just make a quick list of the cities they might be found in, along with the history of that concept. EXAMPLE: Gordon Ramsay Burger - what it is and the sorts of things it carries besides burgers; its 10 year history (to include the original name and when/why that changed, the opening in Chicago and how it stirred controversy because there was catsup on the hot dogs), and that it has places in Las Vegas, London (in Harrods), Chicago, Seoul, Qatar (at Hamad Airport), and opening in Boston this Spring. Does it make sense to create separate articles like that for Gordon Ramsay Steak, Gordon Ramsay Pub & Grill, Gordon Ramsay Bar & Grill, Lucky Cat by Gordon Ramsay, 1890 Restaurant at the Savoy, Street Pizza, Street Burger, Gordon Ramsay Food Market, etc.? Or is it better to have one consolidated article like this (which the main Gordon Ramsay article can continue to easily link to)? DiscoBookworm (talk) 13:56, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We decide a restaurant or chain is notable when it has significant coverage in reliable independent sources that are not simply from the local area or in industry-niche publications, and that's when we make an article about it. It doesn't matter whether it's casual or closed, only that it's notable. If a restaurant is notable, make an article. If a restaurant isn't notable, why list it here? My proposal is that we include notable restaurants -- that is, the restaurants that have (or clearly should have) articles. This list looks like a directory, which WP is not. Valereee (talk) 14:02, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've made this change. Happy to continue discussing. Valereee (talk) 11:37, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As you have limited this list to "notable" restaurants, the scope of the article has been reduced. It is no longer a "List of restaurants owned or operated by Gordon Ramsay"; it is now a "List of notable restaurants owned or operated by Gordon Ramsay".

The current title indicates to the routine Wikipedia user that it is a complete list, giving the impression to someone unfamiliar with the chef that 20 restaurants are all Gordon Ramsay has ever owned or operated, and that only 8 of them are open as of today. But he has 80 open around the world at this moment, plus there are 55 restaurants he has owned or operated in the past.

Therefore, this article's title needs to reflect the new limit in its scope following your changes. Jatgar Bivpit (talk) 20:35, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hm. I see your point, but I think I disagree. We aren't saying "List of all restaurants owned or operated by Gordon Ramsay". And we include defunct restaurants and restaurants he's not longer associated with. So in order for the title to include those, it would have to be "List of notable restaurants ever owned or operated by Gordon Ramsay", which is way too long. Valereee (talk) 15:28, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Then perhaps you should at least add some text to the bottom of the opening four paragraphs, to the effect of saying that this list is not inclusive of every restaurant Chef Ramsay has ever owned or operated, but is only a short list of the few deemed notable by Wikipedia. Some wording that tells people this list isn't "everything" he's ever had. Jatgar Bivpit (talk) 17:07, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Added, actually to end of first paragraph. Valereee (talk) 19:36, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gordon Ramsay[edit]

You write in the article, that he is British, but he is Scottish for god’s sake! Please correct it, thank you! 94.44.224.231 (talk) 14:09, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple previous discussions, British includes Scottish. Valereee (talk) 19:38, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

reversion[edit]

Let's discuss. Valereee (talk) 22:10, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]