Talk:List of helicopter prison escapes

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Former FLCList of helicopter prison escapes is a former featured list candidate. Please view the link under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. Once the objections have been addressed you may resubmit the article for featured list status.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 30, 2009Peer reviewReviewed
May 30, 2009Featured list candidateNot promoted
Current status: Former featured list candidate

Criteria for success / failure?[edit]

We could use a clarification on this. For example, the recent attempt at the prison in Quebec did get the prisoners out of the prison - only to be captured later - but we mark it as a failure. There are other cases on there that are marked as success when the prisoners were later recaptured; do we have a minimum time requirement before recapture in order for it to be called success? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.140.98.186 (talk) 13:20, 18 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The criteria for success should be whether an inmate was picked up from detention by helicopter, and was dropped off in a state of freedom, however brief that may be. This would constitute an escape by helicopter. For the escape on October 28, 2007, the inmate did NOT actually escape by helicopter, though he did escape. This should be marked as a failure. Runxctry (talk) 20:48, 22 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It would perhaps make this clearer if a third icon, possibly yellow, could be introduced to indicate cases where the initial escape was successful, but the inmates were recaptured quickly? 109.148.67.141 (talk) 19:54, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps it would make more sense if the icons were replaced with a bit more explanation. Something like Success: the prisoners were recaptured weeks later or Failure: the helicopter was shot down after leaving the prison grounds, which would clarify both whether the attempt could be considered a success or failure in one word, and exactly how much of a success in a short sentence. See also the discussion below about the appropriateness of the icons. 86.20.248.127 (talk) 13:24, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Based on the discussion below, I removed the helicopter icons a few minutes ago; they were somewhat goofy, and there was no justification for their use instead of the inherently clear words "Yes" and "No". I'd be less opposed to them, however, if they conveyed some more complex information (e.g. what is being discussed here), although in the balance I'd still be opposed to them. -- Dan Griscom (talk) 21:14, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We could change the new "Succeeded" column to an "Outcome" column, whose contents could be words or phrases such as "Success", "Success but recaptured", "Failure", etc. Problem: if we start subdividing the incidents into more categories, it's going to be tougher and tougher to make a set of clean categories. For instance, if the inmate technically reached freedom but was captured five minutes later, is that "Success"? ... what about five days later? ... five years later? In the end I think I like Runxctry's solution: if the inmate is taken away by helicopter, and successfully lands and leaves the helicopter without being immediately confronted by law enforcement, then that is "Success"; anything else is "Failure". -- Dan Griscom (talk) 21:21, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Dan Griscom . You make good points and I agree with 'keeping it simple.' We might start with the title... perhaps it should be renamed "List of 'attempted' helicopter escapes." - might make things easier. That way, the term 'successful' is clarified to mean 'successfully escaped by helicopter'. As the title stands, it could ambiguously also mean "Successful attempt" which is rather pointless - that's what the article is about. I think most people get this, but nothing wrong with adding clarity. BTW, looks like someone has classified the escape on 10/28/2007 as "unsuccessful" - I've since learned about the 'be brave' motto for making edits!

Helicopter icon[edit]

The icon, while amusing, makes this look like a children's book. The fact that we require a key for a simple 'yes/no' highlights how forced this is. It could also get messy should you have a 'partial success' value in the future. ed g2s • talk 12:11, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. I think the icons add a lot to the article. -- Esemono (talk) 12:34, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
^^^ " icon's " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.180.202.51 (talk) 21:13, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
They look amateurish, and inconsistent with other articles. Paulbrock (talk) 12:04, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Paulbrock, although the adjective "cartoonish" came to mind when I first saw the article. Moreover, the symbols can't be parsed by Web crawlers, making the article less accessible to search engines. — QuicksilverT @
Cartoonish, amateurish, childish, ultimately unprofessional. Esemono, you probably put a lot of work into making those icons, but ultimately, they contribute nothing more to the article that a simple X and Check or Y/N wouldn't add 66.253.208.227 (talk) 02:58, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Not only the above, but they're also inconsistent with the design iconography used throughout the rest of Wikipedia. They should be updated to be consistent or replaced with a simpler Yes/No system. Foggalong (talk) 09:08, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As much as I found it hilarious that there are success and failure helicopter icons on this article, I agree that it's a bit ridiculous - Wikipedia is meant to be a serious encyclopedia and it comes off as a joke more than anything. I don't think there's a rule in WP:NOT directly relevant to this, but the arguments for consistency and tone are valid, I think. A simple tick / cross would be better, and wouldn't require a key, the sole purpose of which seems to be to explain why there are fancy icons. Having said that, I'm not going to put in the effort to change it myself, so I guess rather than continue the discussion here someone should just do it. 86.20.248.127 (talk) 13:16, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I came to this talk page specifically to complain about the silly helicopter icons. Yes, someone's good with graphical design, but designing your own Yes/No icon is not good UI design. Should be a simple "Yes" or "No". -- Dan Griscom (talk) 19:58, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oy, I love the silly helicopter icons. They're probably wildly inappropriate for Wikipedia, but, come on, if there's any article to laugh at yourself on, "List of helicopter prison escapes" certainly ought to be near the top. I mean, the very title of the article is so hilarious that — pardon, what's that? Okay, yes, I'll sit down. J♯m (talk | contribs) 21:02, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, since seven commenters here didn't like the icons, as opposed to the one who did (plus one ambivalent), I changed the icons to simple "Yes" and "No". But, since then my edit as been anonymously reversed. Any thoughts? -- Dan Griscom (talk) 23:11, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think we should delete those helicopter icons. People who have screen readers probably won't be able to read them. It introduces unncessary problems. Fangfufu (talk) 03:12, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Success / failures aren't even sortable... Fangfufu (talk) 03:14, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The reason given for the revert was "Undid revision 724044035 by Dtgriscom (talk), as the icon was much easier to read and view at a glance. It's not ideal, but it's better than yes/no. Possibly colour code boxes yes/no?". Yes, the icons were/are much more obvious, but that isn't useful as the rest of the information needs to be read for you to understand what those bright icons are talking about. -- Dan Griscom (talk) 03:23, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The removal of the icons was marked as vandalism too apparently? I'm confused why this is the case when the general consensus here is that they're bad for the article as a whole. Foggalong (talk) 16:30, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No it wasn't; it was just a revert. But, they missed the icons in the second table, so now we have two tables, one with icons and one without. I'm going to remove the icons again. -- Dan Griscom (talk) 16:57, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Would someone with better table editing chops than me make the "Succeeded" columns sortable? -- Dan Griscom (talk) 19:17, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2016[edit]

Add The Bridge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bridge_(Agents_of_S.H.I.E.L.D.)) to the list of fictional helicopter escapes (TV) Emanb29 (talk) 00:15, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  22:41, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Where are the helicopter icons?[edit]

The funniest thing I had ever seen on Wikipedia were these helicopter icons. And some sexually frustrated person removed them. Hope someone can take the time to put them back. Perhaps with an added 'yellow icon'. Amin wordie (talk) 07:35, 12 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"sexually frustrated person"? That seems a little excessive.
Anyway, if you would've bothered to check the talk page before you posted, you would've seen there was quite the discussion on the helicopter icons and that led to their eventual removal. If you have a valid reason for them to be brought back, please continue the discussion in that section. Otherwise, please leave the insults to youtube comments. --Bassmadrigal (talk) 18:44, 12 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

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Technical Difficulties[edit]

This page was mentioned in episode 26 of the Technical Difficulties podcast, first released 6 June 2013.[[1]] Particular reference was made to the old success/failure symbols. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 22:29, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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