Talk:List of equipment of the Israel Defense Forces

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Recent reversions of apparently validly sourced material[edit]

I would like the editors who have removed sourced material to discuss here rather than edit-warring. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:24, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's already happening here: Talk:Israel Defense Forces. You are invited to take part. --Shuki (talk) 20:31, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No, this is the article where the edit warring is going on. Sample edits [1], [2], [3] Jezhotwells (talk) 20:35, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The material I removed did not discuss any military equipment, and was sourced to non reliable sources. HupHollandHup (talk) 21:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC) White phosphorous is not an illegal weapon. HupHollandHup (talk) 21:56, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Really! What are white phosphorus shells if not military equipment? What are cluster bombs if not military equipment. And why is their use against civilian populations not illegal under the Geneva Conventions (in your opinion)? The cited sources Natural News, quoting Mads Gilbert, alternet citing Human Rights Watch, The BBC, France 24. It seems that you have some sort of bias here. If you continue to remove cited material you will be blocked. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:46, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to be confused between the concept of an "illegal weapon", and "illegal use of a (legal) weapon". white phosphorus shells are, of course, military equipment - but a legal one. You can certainly add a section to this article called "munitions", and list white phosphorus shells there. You can't add a POV accusation from activists to the lead. the lead is supposed to be a summary of the article. It seems that you have some sort of bias here. If you continue to add irrelevant material you will be blocked. HupHollandHup (talk) 22:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC link you have added does not make any claim of "illegal weapon". The other link makes that claim in the headline, but the actual article does not use the word illegal even once. HupHollandHup (talk) 23:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously you did not actually read the BBC story. Which bits of In the report, Israel is accused of illegally using white phosphorus and other armaments supplied by the US in Gaza, while Hamas is condemned for launching unguided rockets into Israel. and The substance, which is used to lay smokescreens, is legal for use on open ground but its use in built-up areas where civilians are found is banned under international conventions. Do you not understand? Likewise in the France 24 article: Under international law, white phosphorus is banned for use against civilians, but is permitted if used for creating a smokescreen.

Earlier, Human Rights Watch had slammed Israel's use of white phosphorus which it said had been used in areas of Gaza City and the northern district of Jabaliya. "Israel appears to be using white phosphorus as an 'obscurant' (a chemical used to hide military operations), a permissible use in principle under international humanitarian law," HRW said in a statement. "However, white phosphorus has a significant, incidental, incendiary effect that can severely burn people... The potential for harm to civilians is magnified by Gaza's high population density, among the highest in the world," it said. The group said its researchers in Israel had observed multiple air-bursts of artillery-fired white phosphorus which would spread the chemical over an area between 125 and 250 metres (yards) in diameter. "Human Rights Watch believes that the use of white phosphorus in densely populated areas of Gaza violates the requirement under international humanitarian law to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian injury and loss of life," it said. Also During Israel's 2006 war against Lebanon's Hezbollah militia, the army was accused of using cluster bombs -- the use of which is banned in civilian areas -- but Israel said they were only being used within the confines of international law.. Jezhotwells (talk) 07:45, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Illegal use of weapons should be mentioned in the lead, as it also includes the illegal use of weapons during the Lebanon war in July-August 2006 and in Gaza War (2008-2009), which sparked a lot of controversies and was also discussed on Geneva, Switzerland, at the Fifteenth Meeting of the Group of Governmental Experts. Userpd (talk) 02:41, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
These sorts of edits do not belong in a military equipment article. Example: Military equipment of Turkey, Military equipment of Yemen, Military equipment of Cyprus, Military equipment of Georgia. Claims of illegal weapons use belong in specific articles (either military history or the war in which the weapons were used). But editing in blatantly POV and loaded sentences like During the Gaza 2008-2009 war indicated that white phosphorus shells turns the article into something beyond a simple list. This isn't about the Gaza War or white phosphorous. Claims regarding white phosphorus are fully represented in Gaza War and include all POVs. the above sentence is poorly stated if not patently false. Wikifan12345 (talk) 08:01, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Use of white phosphorus / cluster bobms in Gaza War and Southern Lebanon, indeed sparked controversies, and it was used by israeli army. But ok, let it aside, then device is an equipment, right? Right. Why shouldn't it be added, taking into account that it'd be written from a neutral point of view. It deserves a mentioning, like you it or not. Although if someone would extend a sub-article which would list controversial weapons, it'd be moved there, I agree. Userpd (talk) 09:44, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Wikifan. This article is a list of equipment. If you want to add to it a list of munitions, like WP shells and cluster bombs, go right ahead. Notable allegations of misuse of weapons belong in the article about the incidents that sparked those allegations or controversies - and if you take a look at Gaza War#Controversial tactics allegedly used by Israel or 2006 Lebanon War#Cluster munitions - you'll see they are covered, in detail, there. HupHollandHup (talk) 14:11, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Userpd has been trying to insert the same POV at IDF, and is now petitioning various wikipedia bodies to push further. Whether weapons sparked controversy is irrelevant. The article is "military equipment of israel" not, "military equipment of israel....that sparked controversy." Controversy is regulated to the relevant articles where the weapons may or may not have been used. Wikifan12345 (talk) 14:46, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

removal of flags[edit]

I took out all the flags and replaced them with text per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(icons)#Flags). If there's any reason we shouldn't follow the guideline, please do let me know. - Aaron Brenneman (talk) 01:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Galil SR-99[edit]

I've read about it. It's a new sniper rifle. Should it be included in the list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Follgramm3006 (talk • contribs) 18:37, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Odd note[edit]

A few older small arms have the following note:

"Captured from Arab armies over the course of the Arab-Israeli Conflict and used by Special Forces."

It seems unlikely that Israeli Special Forces would be using older weapons like this in regular combat. Are they used for undercover operations or something? If so, I'm not sure it makes sense to include them in a list of general military equipment. --BDD (talk) 18:54, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Military equipment of Israel[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Military equipment of Israel's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "globalsecurity.org":

  • From Anti-ballistic missile: http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/world/china/hq-19.htm
  • From Merkava: "Merkava Mk3/Mk4 Tank", Israel, GlobalSecurity.org {{citation}}: Missing or empty |title= (help).
  • From Israeli Navy: John Pike. "Navy Equipment - Israel". Retrieved 29 June 2015.
  • From RPG-7: John Pike. "RPG-7". globalsecurity.org. Retrieved 2014-01-20.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 01:31, 21 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Midras missile[edit]

The Operation Bramble Bush article says that, in 1999, the Sayeret Matkal planned to kill Saddam Hussein in Iraq; the book source (Goodspeed) says this was with "the Israeli-designed, television guided Midras missile from a distance of six miles". I'm really struggling to find what a "Midras missile" is (so I can link it there). By that description, it would have to be a man-portable surface-to-surface optically guided missile, in the IDF inventory in 1999. Looking at the missiles listed here, that could be Spike or MAPATS, or the US-made TOW. But none of those have a 6 mile range (and really only TOW is "TV guided"). The other missiles in the IDF inventory seem much to large to be lugged around - LAHAT doesn't really have the range and isn't TV guided either. The Nimrod missile has the range, although they're so heavy they'd have to be mounted on a vehicle (which the article talks about, with no reference) - but it wasn't in service then. So I really can't see what kind of missile it would be. Maybe the sources are confused, and the commandos would simply be spotting for an airstrike, but I also can't find any thing that sounds like a "Midras missile" in List of munitions used by the Israeli Air Force. What missile might this have been? -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 21:27, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Corvette Saar 6[edit]

The new Saar 6 corvette https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-navy-receives-new-missile-boat-to-defend-offshore-gas-rigs/ --Tandemdelta (talk) 19:53, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

IDF Rifles[edit]

Assault rifles There should be added IMI Romat - Israeli FN FAL, phased out after Operation Nickel Grass

IDF Designated marksman rifles IDF used Lee Enfield until 1950s and Kar98k/Kar98 until it was replaced by M14 SWS in 1973 thanks to Operation Nickel Grass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass

sources: https://www.gunboards.com/threads/consecutive-idf-k98-sniper-rifles.962066/ https://www.m14forum.com/threads/any-idf-m14-collectors-here-have-a-few-qs.481066/page-2

protection[edit]

Why is the article protected? ישרול - Isrul (talk) 16:12, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

((u|ישרול}} All articles related to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict are extended protected due to vandalism. - ZLEA T\C 23:03, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Equipment that out of service[edit]

I think the equipment that out of service should be deleted, this is not the place for it. ישרול - Isrul (talk) 03:52, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree since the list of out of service equipment isn't kept.--Vanlister (talk) 02:57, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:24, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:40, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Air forces equipment[edit]

Vanlister Can you update the air forces equipment from https://www.flightglobal.com/download?ac=83735? Isrul (talk) 20:12, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

INSS AND IISS should be changed too.--Vanlister (talk) 13:33, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
IISS, but the most updated data from INSS is from 2014 Isrul (talk) 06:36, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended Protection Edit Request for the corvette section[edit]

As the new corvette had commissioned in 2020, the line below should be added.

NickyLam12 (talk | contrib) 12:26, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Colonestarrice (talk) 14:59, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oshkosh FMTV Trucks (IDF Equipment)[edit]

I saw that the list was still missing it even though we have sources and pictures in wiki commons that provide evidence of its use in the IDF

pictures v
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Oshkosh_FMTV_trucks_of_Israel_Defense_Forces_1.jpg#/media/File:Oshkosh_FMTV_trucks_of_Israel_Defense_Forces_1.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Oshkosh_FMTV_trucks_of_Israel_Defense_Forces.jpg#/media/File:Oshkosh_FMTV_trucks_of_Israel_Defense_Forces.jpg
news sources v
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2019/12/12/oshkosh-provides-israel-with-modified-military-vehicles https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/51286
Israel has also already been listed as an operator in the FMTV wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Medium_Tactical_Vehicles#Operators Mobius1TH (talk) 02:43, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SMASH Handheld[edit]

I am unable to edit the page. Please add SMASH Handheld to Optronics Galamore (talk) 13:13, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ruger 10/22LR contradictory source[edit]

Regarding the Suppressed Ruger 10/22: the second reference on the section (archived here, reference [8] at time of writing) says that the IDF only initially adopted the system as a less-lethal riot control weapon. The source goes on to explain that its more common application became "to silently and effectively eliminate disturbing dogs prior to operations," and that after its use in riot control caused several Palestinian deaths, the IDF investigated and reclassified it as a lethal weapon.

As such, the information in the notes section should be updated to reflect this. At *minimum*, it is necessary to update the note to say "less lethal," as there was never a point where the firearm was considered non-lethal. Aycion (talk) 16:12, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here is an updated version of the same source.
https://ruger1022.com/blog/israeli-ruger-1022/
The info in the notes section needs to be updated by an extended confirmed user or an admin as soon as possible, as "non-lethal" is a big difference from "less lethal", and is misleading. EMHGAMES (talk) 22:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 March 2024[edit]

Picture for the M60 Machine Gun is missing in the small arms section, general-purpose machine guns. Johndiddlydoo (talk) 06:12, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done I added the picture from the M60 page. Jamedeus (talk) 00:45, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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